supercharger qeuestion
02-07-2014, 12:04 AM
#41
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A screw type intercooled "Lysholm" compressor is going to very hard to beat. It certainly blows away any type of roots blower. It doesn`t "beat up" the air like a roots. Look at what Eddie young is doing with them.. incredible power combos. I wish I had a couple 5liters sitting on top of my motors.
02-07-2014, 05:07 AM
#42
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According to whom?
A screw type intercooled "Lysholm" compressor is going to very hard to beat. It certainly blows away any type of roots blower. It doesn`t "beat up" the air like a roots. Look at what Eddie young is doing with them.. incredible power combos. I wish I had a couple 5liters sitting on top of my motors.
A screw type intercooled "Lysholm" compressor is going to very hard to beat. It certainly blows away any type of roots blower. It doesn`t "beat up" the air like a roots. Look at what Eddie young is doing with them.. incredible power combos. I wish I had a couple 5liters sitting on top of my motors.
02-07-2014, 08:28 AM
#43
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There is no question prochargers will make the dyno numbers. They can make big numbers hands down. You can easily make 1000HP out of a 454CI with a good set of heads and cam combo and some boost. I think the prochargers work great on a low boost, EFI engines like the 502 mags, 500EFI's, etc. Theres quite a few out there running and running well.
With that being said though, go down to key west, Miami, or any of the big offshore events and look at all the big power custom high end marine engines. There is a reason you still see whipples, Psi's, and big old roots blowers, and its not because of cost. Whipples and roots are called ''hard" on drives. The power is in your throttles. Sure, if you firewall it you're gonna see big torque numbers getting out of the hole. But easing it up on plane, the engine is never really even going into boost at that point. The problems some guys around here have with centrifugals is this........you have an engine that say turn a 34P prop at 6000RPM, because it make big power at 6000. But, at 2500-3000, its on motor at that point. And on motor, you have a 450-500HP engine per say. So lets say for example you have a 38 Fountain with stock HP500's. Stock, it will turn a 28p propeller to 5200RPM. But you procharge it. Now, it can turn a 34p propeller to 5500. At planning speeds, the engine is relying on atmosphere. How would that stock HP500 setup plane with 34p props, compared to how it planed with 28p props when the boat was stock? So, its like in a way making your stick shift car start out in third gear. In a small light boat that might not pose a problem. In a 40ft vee bottom loaded with friends, coolers, and a full tank of 250 gallons of fuel, it might be.
A buddy of mine tried the procharger route in custom builds. On the dyno, they were the talk of the town. 1200-1300HP out of 522 inch engines with mediocre heads. In the boat, they were nothing but problems. His were blow thru. The prosystems carbs were useless over 1000HP. The original combo with a large cam low compression roots style build, was an absolute turd below 3500rpm. Couldn't get out of its own way. Changed the recipe, smaller cams, new C&S carbs, they ran much stronger and idled much better. You had to run the belts so friggin tight it was ridiculous to eliminate pulley slip. Between the fuel system mods, and other fitment and setup issues, it just got old.
On the internet, everyone had all the answers to his problems. And his setup would have worked ok if he tamed the boost down and would have been happy to make 900-1000HP with it in my opinion. But at that point, he decided to make the switch back to roots blowers and go boating. Theres just something about that whole procharger setup, that just didn't seem like it would hold up in a 42 Ft boat that can be held wot for pretty much as long as you want on the big lake. The belts slipped, brackets flexed, the blower got hot enough to cook eggs on, etc. Slap a 10-71 or whipple on it, and hold that thing wot for 20 miles if your engines can take it. He's got a big boat, on a big lake. I'd gladly take the tradeoff in peak horsepower, to have a reliable blower system that can sustain extended periods of wot time, and lots of big water throttling. I have yet to see a procharged big power engine run in conditions where there is lots of throttle on/off situations in big water. Its all in the application. The best comparison, is go drive a 42 Fountain with 1000HP procharged engines, and go drive one with 1000HP whipple engines. See which one you like better. I think you'll be calling Mr. Whipple.
With that being said though, go down to key west, Miami, or any of the big offshore events and look at all the big power custom high end marine engines. There is a reason you still see whipples, Psi's, and big old roots blowers, and its not because of cost. Whipples and roots are called ''hard" on drives. The power is in your throttles. Sure, if you firewall it you're gonna see big torque numbers getting out of the hole. But easing it up on plane, the engine is never really even going into boost at that point. The problems some guys around here have with centrifugals is this........you have an engine that say turn a 34P prop at 6000RPM, because it make big power at 6000. But, at 2500-3000, its on motor at that point. And on motor, you have a 450-500HP engine per say. So lets say for example you have a 38 Fountain with stock HP500's. Stock, it will turn a 28p propeller to 5200RPM. But you procharge it. Now, it can turn a 34p propeller to 5500. At planning speeds, the engine is relying on atmosphere. How would that stock HP500 setup plane with 34p props, compared to how it planed with 28p props when the boat was stock? So, its like in a way making your stick shift car start out in third gear. In a small light boat that might not pose a problem. In a 40ft vee bottom loaded with friends, coolers, and a full tank of 250 gallons of fuel, it might be.
A buddy of mine tried the procharger route in custom builds. On the dyno, they were the talk of the town. 1200-1300HP out of 522 inch engines with mediocre heads. In the boat, they were nothing but problems. His were blow thru. The prosystems carbs were useless over 1000HP. The original combo with a large cam low compression roots style build, was an absolute turd below 3500rpm. Couldn't get out of its own way. Changed the recipe, smaller cams, new C&S carbs, they ran much stronger and idled much better. You had to run the belts so friggin tight it was ridiculous to eliminate pulley slip. Between the fuel system mods, and other fitment and setup issues, it just got old.
On the internet, everyone had all the answers to his problems. And his setup would have worked ok if he tamed the boost down and would have been happy to make 900-1000HP with it in my opinion. But at that point, he decided to make the switch back to roots blowers and go boating. Theres just something about that whole procharger setup, that just didn't seem like it would hold up in a 42 Ft boat that can be held wot for pretty much as long as you want on the big lake. The belts slipped, brackets flexed, the blower got hot enough to cook eggs on, etc. Slap a 10-71 or whipple on it, and hold that thing wot for 20 miles if your engines can take it. He's got a big boat, on a big lake. I'd gladly take the tradeoff in peak horsepower, to have a reliable blower system that can sustain extended periods of wot time, and lots of big water throttling. I have yet to see a procharged big power engine run in conditions where there is lots of throttle on/off situations in big water. Its all in the application. The best comparison, is go drive a 42 Fountain with 1000HP procharged engines, and go drive one with 1000HP whipple engines. See which one you like better. I think you'll be calling Mr. Whipple.
02-07-2014, 09:06 AM
#44
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Thread Starter
Thanks mc
I really love the boat , when I started the threathere was a.hot deal on the vortech but that didn't pan out. Now I'm thinking I'll just run it this year as is then look at the wipple package in the fall. It has to fit under the hatch though says the boss:-)[ATTACH=CONFIG]518139[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]518139[/ATTACH]
I really love the boat , when I started the threathere was a.hot deal on the vortech but that didn't pan out. Now I'm thinking I'll just run it this year as is then look at the wipple package in the fall. It has to fit under the hatch though says the boss:-)[ATTACH=CONFIG]518139[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]518139[/ATTACH]
02-07-2014, 07:38 PM
#45
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Lemme help you out buck 35. First of all the boat is the boss and the wifey is a passenger. Some wives are jealous if a boat. Probably cause people call them she. My boat however us a He . 
Mild. When i get a couple free hours im gonna read you pearls of wisdom about blowers. I know it will be good and probably entertaining. I got run down to the store a hiest a coupke sasage packs. We'll be in touch
Mild. When i get a couple free hours im gonna read you pearls of wisdom about blowers. I know it will be good and probably entertaining. I got run down to the store a hiest a coupke sasage packs. We'll be in touch
02-07-2014, 09:39 PM
#47
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According to whom?
A screw type intercooled "Lysholm" compressor is going to very hard to beat. It certainly blows away any type of roots blower. It doesn`t "beat up" the air like a roots. Look at what Eddie young is doing with them.. incredible power combos. I wish I had a couple 5liters sitting on top of my motors.
A screw type intercooled "Lysholm" compressor is going to very hard to beat. It certainly blows away any type of roots blower. It doesn`t "beat up" the air like a roots. Look at what Eddie young is doing with them.. incredible power combos. I wish I had a couple 5liters sitting on top of my motors.
All the roots blowers are dinosaurs these days and you can find them for a dime a dozen and when you get them installed you will have an even harder time selling your boat because people just don't want them.For small cubic inch applications you can't beat the cost of the Vortech kits if you can find someone to tune it because a whipple kit for a 502 is 8-10K! You would have $15K in an install by the time you buy all the other stuff and a lot of boats with 502's aren't hardly worth 15K so the Vortech and ProCharger kits are economical in comparison and they don't crush Bravos near as easy.
02-07-2014, 10:30 PM
#48
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Mr. Big shot MTI
Whipple is the current manufacturer of a Lysholm, Keene Bell, Eaton etc screw type supercharger. (a design patented in 1878)
I`m sure in your circles Roots blowers and carbs are dinosaurs that lower boat values but for us regular guys they are still at the top of the list. I just sold (2) 8-71`s. I`m pretty sure the the guys that bought them did not find them to be "a dime a dozen".
Thanx for coming in, now please pass the Gray Poupon. I`m off to look for those $15, 000 502 boats.. I`ll be offering $5K, for the 454`s for sure.. what piles of junk those are huh
I`m sure in your circles Roots blowers and carbs are dinosaurs that lower boat values but for us regular guys they are still at the top of the list. I just sold (2) 8-71`s. I`m pretty sure the the guys that bought them did not find them to be "a dime a dozen".
Thanx for coming in, now please pass the Gray Poupon. I`m off to look for those $15, 000 502 boats.. I`ll be offering $5K, for the 454`s for sure.. what piles of junk those are huh
Last edited by ICDEDPPL; 02-07-2014 at 10:46 PM.
02-08-2014, 05:41 AM
#49
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There is no question prochargers will make the dyno numbers. They can make big numbers hands down. You can easily make 1000HP out of a 454CI with a good set of heads and cam combo and some boost. I think the prochargers work great on a low boost, EFI engines like the 502 mags, 500EFI's, etc. Theres quite a few out there running and running well.
With that being said though, go down to key west, Miami, or any of the big offshore events and look at all the big power custom high end marine engines. There is a reason you still see whipples, Psi's, and big old roots blowers, and its not because of cost. Whipples and roots are called ''hard" on drives. The power is in your throttles. Sure, if you firewall it you're gonna see big torque numbers getting out of the hole. But easing it up on plane, the engine is never really even going into boost at that point. The problems some guys around here have with centrifugals is this........you have an engine that say turn a 34P prop at 6000RPM, because it make big power at 6000. But, at 2500-3000, its on motor at that point. And on motor, you have a 450-500HP engine per say. So lets say for example you have a 38 Fountain with stock HP500's. Stock, it will turn a 28p propeller to 5200RPM. But you procharge it. Now, it can turn a 34p propeller to 5500. At planning speeds, the engine is relying on atmosphere. How would that stock HP500 setup plane with 34p props, compared to how it planed with 28p props when the boat was stock? So, its like in a way making your stick shift car start out in third gear. In a small light boat that might not pose a problem. In a 40ft vee bottom loaded with friends, coolers, and a full tank of 250 gallons of fuel, it might be.
A buddy of mine tried the procharger route in custom builds. On the dyno, they were the talk of the town. 1200-1300HP out of 522 inch engines with mediocre heads. In the boat, they were nothing but problems. His were blow thru. The prosystems carbs were useless over 1000HP. The original combo with a large cam low compression roots style build, was an absolute turd below 3500rpm. Couldn't get out of its own way. Changed the recipe, smaller cams, new C&S carbs, they ran much stronger and idled much better. You had to run the belts so friggin tight it was ridiculous to eliminate pulley slip. Between the fuel system mods, and other fitment and setup issues, it just got old.
On the internet, everyone had all the answers to his problems. And his setup would have worked ok if he tamed the boost down and would have been happy to make 900-1000HP with it in my opinion. But at that point, he decided to make the switch back to roots blowers and go boating. Theres just something about that whole procharger setup, that just didn't seem like it would hold up in a 42 Ft boat that can be held wot for pretty much as long as you want on the big lake. The belts slipped, brackets flexed, the blower got hot enough to cook eggs on, etc. Slap a 10-71 or whipple on it, and hold that thing wot for 20 miles if your engines can take it. He's got a big boat, on a big lake. I'd gladly take the tradeoff in peak horsepower, to have a reliable blower system that can sustain extended periods of wot time, and lots of big water throttling. I have yet to see a procharged big power engine run in conditions where there is lots of throttle on/off situations in big water. Its all in the application. The best comparison, is go drive a 42 Fountain with 1000HP procharged engines, and go drive one with 1000HP whipple engines. See which one you like better. I think you'll be calling Mr. Whipple.
With that being said though, go down to key west, Miami, or any of the big offshore events and look at all the big power custom high end marine engines. There is a reason you still see whipples, Psi's, and big old roots blowers, and its not because of cost. Whipples and roots are called ''hard" on drives. The power is in your throttles. Sure, if you firewall it you're gonna see big torque numbers getting out of the hole. But easing it up on plane, the engine is never really even going into boost at that point. The problems some guys around here have with centrifugals is this........you have an engine that say turn a 34P prop at 6000RPM, because it make big power at 6000. But, at 2500-3000, its on motor at that point. And on motor, you have a 450-500HP engine per say. So lets say for example you have a 38 Fountain with stock HP500's. Stock, it will turn a 28p propeller to 5200RPM. But you procharge it. Now, it can turn a 34p propeller to 5500. At planning speeds, the engine is relying on atmosphere. How would that stock HP500 setup plane with 34p props, compared to how it planed with 28p props when the boat was stock? So, its like in a way making your stick shift car start out in third gear. In a small light boat that might not pose a problem. In a 40ft vee bottom loaded with friends, coolers, and a full tank of 250 gallons of fuel, it might be.
A buddy of mine tried the procharger route in custom builds. On the dyno, they were the talk of the town. 1200-1300HP out of 522 inch engines with mediocre heads. In the boat, they were nothing but problems. His were blow thru. The prosystems carbs were useless over 1000HP. The original combo with a large cam low compression roots style build, was an absolute turd below 3500rpm. Couldn't get out of its own way. Changed the recipe, smaller cams, new C&S carbs, they ran much stronger and idled much better. You had to run the belts so friggin tight it was ridiculous to eliminate pulley slip. Between the fuel system mods, and other fitment and setup issues, it just got old.
On the internet, everyone had all the answers to his problems. And his setup would have worked ok if he tamed the boost down and would have been happy to make 900-1000HP with it in my opinion. But at that point, he decided to make the switch back to roots blowers and go boating. Theres just something about that whole procharger setup, that just didn't seem like it would hold up in a 42 Ft boat that can be held wot for pretty much as long as you want on the big lake. The belts slipped, brackets flexed, the blower got hot enough to cook eggs on, etc. Slap a 10-71 or whipple on it, and hold that thing wot for 20 miles if your engines can take it. He's got a big boat, on a big lake. I'd gladly take the tradeoff in peak horsepower, to have a reliable blower system that can sustain extended periods of wot time, and lots of big water throttling. I have yet to see a procharged big power engine run in conditions where there is lots of throttle on/off situations in big water. Its all in the application. The best comparison, is go drive a 42 Fountain with 1000HP procharged engines, and go drive one with 1000HP whipple engines. See which one you like better. I think you'll be calling Mr. Whipple.
I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. My point was simple about the efficiency of a Whipple over a Procharger. But when it comes to Prochargers there are very few who really know how to make them run well. As far as the unit itself I think they are excellent. As far as the accessories, technical support and that sort of thing good luck.
02-08-2014, 06:15 AM
#50
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Lysholm is out of the marine market if not out of business all together. Whipple is the authority on screw type superchargers these days. I had a set on my 1075's and you can't even buy parts from them so it is aftermarket stuff to rebuild them so I just did what any guy would do and bought a new set of 2.9L twin screw whipples All the roots blowers are dinosaurs these days and you can find them for a dime a dozen and when you get them installed you will have an even harder time selling your boat because people just don't want them.
For small cubic inch applications you can't beat the cost of the Vortech kits if you can find someone to tune it because a whipple kit for a 502 is 8-10K! You would have $15K in an install by the time you buy all the other stuff and a lot of boats with 502's aren't hardly worth 15K so the Vortech and ProCharger kits are economical in comparison and they don't crush Bravos near as easy.
All the roots blowers are dinosaurs these days and you can find them for a dime a dozen and when you get them installed you will have an even harder time selling your boat because people just don't want them.For small cubic inch applications you can't beat the cost of the Vortech kits if you can find someone to tune it because a whipple kit for a 502 is 8-10K! You would have $15K in an install by the time you buy all the other stuff and a lot of boats with 502's aren't hardly worth 15K so the Vortech and ProCharger kits are economical in comparison and they don't crush Bravos near as easy.
Are you trying to tell us you have obsolete motors in your boat?
