Help: Sunsation 36' MCOB Vs. Cigarette 38 TS
 

Background

So I have been the proud owner of a '06 Sunsation 288 MCOB for the last two years. Looking to move up to the next boat and bypass the 30-33ft stage. I have also taken Tres's course.

Needs

I have a daughter and my girlfriend has a son and they're both 2 years old. We want something that is going to be able to accommodate us today as well as into the future.

Where do I boat?

Lake Cumberland and will likely travel South to join in some of the Florida PRs

Truck - 2011 F250 Lariat CC, short bed, 6.7

What I want

From the powerplant perspective, if I go with a Sunsation it will be built new and done so with 520s. If I go with the Cig it will be used and focusing on '09+ 525s in order to bypass the CMI header debacle. Top speed isn't my concern. Either package will get me into the 90s. I want reliability! XRs with ITS is really catching my attention and with the Sunny then we get into the whole digital shift and throttle controls which I think rock.

Comparing the two, which one is really going to provide the best overall comfort and ride? The MCOB is something I'm quite fond of because you open up a ton of room you don't get with the traditional cuddy. More so, as the kids grow up, they will want to invite friends to come along for our weekend excursions to the lake. Again, this is where the extra room has its benefits.

Active Thunder came to mind but it would be a custom one-off which I believe is going to be outside of what I am able to afford.

Thoughts?

I have a good friend w a 37 AT that he has had good times on w his wife & 2 kids!! Cabin is spacious, ride is good!! Call Pat at AT!! Never know!! Good Luck!'

Active Thunder or Cig over the Sunsation, especially when you try to sell it a couple years down the road.

The Sunsation would be a great boat, Tres Martin designed the bottom so it should be an excellent step bottom.....


I would bet a 37 AT and a 36 Sunsation would be similarly priced.......but both will cost you 100K to own for 3+/- years.....

I'd do a TG over 36 sunsation based on your original question.

I'd look at the 36 outerlimits w/520's. It is a nice boat/layout & from my understanding rides very well @ Cumberland & also has speed in the 90's.

There's a lot to be said about buying something new EXACTLY how you want it. I'm a Sunny guy for sure, but I'd give Active Thunder a hard look the next time I'm in the market.

What about the top gun he was asking about? Oh I forgot you don't like them and they're overpriced, they have too many logos, their cabins suck, and they spin out all the time.

Well, I didn't have to say anything.........YOU COVERED IT ALL! :D

I was trying to not derail the thread, spoke about the two new build choices.......

I just said it before you got into your predictable non sense. As for the op, I would take a 10 year old cig before a new sunsation and I think you may be surprised by pricing from at. I think they probably offer the most bang for the buck out there today

cigarette or active thunder I bet you can buy a new 37 active thunder for less than a new 36 sunny. the cigarette will by far have the best resale value imo.

What is a new 37 AT running these days?

Still haven't touched on the running capability of the three

If your looking at a new 36 Sunsation with 565's Capt's Choice in Fr. Walton, FL has one they have on "Special" this month and they will make your first years worth of payments, its not an MCOB but nice looking boat.

A 525 TS TG isn't going to get you into the 90's....but would still be my pick.

I also have a 2 year old, and the only time I'm doing 90 + anymore is my myself.

Over the last 20 + years I've owned perf boats, many times ( especially @ LOTO) I'm the
Only one in the boat having any fun.

A buddy of mine has a TS and I have some seat time in it.....it's the funnest boat I've driven,
that being said, it doesn't start to be fun til you're over 60 and it needs to be a little bumpy
out to really appreciate it's capabilities, which doesn't lend itself the best conditions for your
old lady to hang on to the kid and still be able to hold on, herself.

So, if you're going to do it, buy the Cig....because if it doesn't work out, you're not going to
take that bad of a beating when you go to get rid of it.

With toddlers on board I would stick with the Active Thunder! The deep freeboard will give you an extra measure of safety and security. The cabin on the AT 37 is huge and with a custom build you can get anything you want for creature comforts. The stability and turning ability of the single step DDC bottom may also be something to really consider..

All three of these boats have great running capabilities...Though I'm not really sure about those packages getting into the 90's speed wise like you say. It comes down to personal preference. Most people that you ask are naturally going to plug their brand. If I was going to lay out that kind of cash for a new or used boat, I wouldn't do it without checking out and actually running the boat(s) you are interested in personally. You are an experienced boater, so you'll know what YOU like when you find it!

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Let me be clear, I'm not a novice and I wouldn't make top speed runs with my family. I want to be crystal clear about that.

Furthermore, anytime I'm running I have my lifeline and lanyard on as do all passengers.

I'm looking for subjective feedback between the handling and available room between the three boats.

Hahaha! I saw this comin even before I opened this thread!!!! Haha...you know as well as anyone here, Cigarette has the best resale value hands down. The Cigarette will perform as well if not better than the other two in the rough stuff. I personally like the lines of the Top Gun over the 37 AT, but I like the AT amenities down below over the Top Gun cabin. Puttin a Sunsation in this trio, is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.... Shouldn't even be in the mix. Cigarette #1..... Active Thunder makes a real nice boat.

From a performance and build perspective the Active Thunder is the same as a Top Gun, but with the AT you get a bigger cockpit and fully equipped cabin. The only reason to pick a TG over an AT is that you need hundreds of Cig emblems all over your boat so you can brag to all of your buddies that you own a Cigarette. These are usually the same people that will tell you that a Rolex is the best watch made....

The Sunsation ( only being that is an open bow) will play the part best when you have to bolt on a jungle jim ( wake board tower) for the kids to
do water sports with.

I'm just giving you sh!t on that one... at the baby shower, my buddy with the TG sent a" for sale" sign( for the exsisiting boat), brochures from Bass Pro shops for pontoons, a set of kids water ski's...life jackets and such....it was classic:D, ...made the shower...some of the most useful ( down the road) stuff we got.

If I tell someone I have a Cigarette boat they inevitably ask "what brand?" And then look dumbfounded when I tell then that IS a brand.

My opinion is that nothing looks like a cig. I love the lines. But that being said you better love the little cockpit because that is about all you're going to get. Family friendly it is not, but oh man - the look......

Capt's Choice sent this email out this week on a 36/565 boat (runs mid 90's stock)......Their pitch is they will make the payments in 2014 (figure 20K off the sale price in lieu of the payments). Boat has Mitcher T paint, 565s and is new for 320K.......
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...n-36-102117876



SALE PRICE $ 339,900

20% Down Plus Tax and Tag

Amount Financed
$271,920
6.25 APR
$1987.84 X 12
20 Years



I love MCOB designs but this is huge money for any 36 ft boat open or closed bow.......I suspect the Tres Martin step bottom would arguably be the best offered right now (newest design, designed by a guy that knows how they work).

I don't think this is always the case......My buddy sold his 2007 TG and it cost him 100K in depreciation in 3 years. He had a Pantera, then a new Donzi and still complains that Cigarette cost him more than both of his previous boats! To be fair the other boats were smaller and boats were cheaper back then (10+ years prior to buying the Cig).

He is all done with boats......bought a new Ferrari 458 and drove it for free for a year, then bought the 458 Spider and made 40K on that car in 60 days and is back on the wait list for another one......He likes the cars better and they don't cost as much to insure/operate! :D

Oh but c'mon, a 10-year-old Cig looks sooooo much better and I'm sure is running nearly 100 MPH. That Sunsation clearly is a Hyundai in a world of Bentleys. That Sunny won't catch anyone's eye around the dock and I'm sure it can't handle any bigger water than 1s or 2s.

Cig's catch my eye like a Smokey and the Bandit Firebird! :D

Just kidding, Cigs are great, some of their stuff was cutting edge and some of the paint over the years was timeless.......then they started building stuff like this: http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o51789-en.html
Performance wasn't great, the color clash is ridiculous and then factor in that this boat 10 years later is unchanged....wait, I take that back, the price has changed (it went up!). Fountain even re-did his interiors in 2008/09 and brought them a decade forward! Sunsation and AT have built some crazy boats over the years but they have evolved (new hulls, new models, new ideas).......Cig comes up with new paint, new places to put logos, new brand collaborations (Ducati, AMG) and they did built the electric boat (on the 12+ year old 38 TS TG hull).

Honestly can anyone say Cig has been best in show in the last 3-4 years (at Miami)? Electric boat was nice for the press, the AMG 46 was nice but not anywhere near as cool as an OL SV52 or the MTI Corvette/Theme boats. Phil has had most of the cool boats in the Cig booth and his "Voodoo 50 Marauder" was fantastic but I don't think it was in the show. The last few years the "show boats" have languished in dealer inventory for months.....When has that ever happened? In years past the boats were sold, then in the poker run the following week! How come long time/ multiple Cig owners like Tom A. or Todd F. are no longer buying "the #1?"......Kool-Aid running low or is the product getting stale?

This was in the show last year: http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o53635-en.html ..................Can anyone say this boat is a showstopper?

I hate depreciation but it's a given with a boat. I'm swallowing it. The cockpit concerns me with the cig. I'm taking this leap because it's the last boat I intend to buy in the next 10yrs which is why willing to spend the money.

I'm leaning towards the sunny and AT. This is how I process a purchase. Narrow, look, and buy.

I received the sunny email. I am pretty set on the 520s. They provide everything I want and need. Again, reliability is huge for me.

No tower on this boat. Lol if it gets to that point I'll buy a used mastercraft.

BTW......Cig has #1 brand recognition among offshore boats. But then again Levis jeans, Marlboro, Harley Davidson, Kodak/Polaroid, etc were all #1 American brands for years as well....but without innovation they stumbled, some never recovered. Look at how many offshore brands have closed in the last 10 years, how many are just treading water like Pantera?

You cannot survive on trophies from the 70s/80s, stories from the old days and t-shirt sales! :D

Also, I'm pretty bent on a mcob which why the ability to do a one off with AT is pretty cool

Way to start a "versus" thread buddy.
Lots will be accomplished here for sure:picard1:


https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7462879232/h794F0E8A/

Are you going to the Miami boat show? I think that would be a nice opportunity to check out all the choices.

this is so not true. Without being burdened
with historical loyalty I think a Sunsations looks way nicer than a cigarette. Cigarettes look like they are stuck in the past.

I am being super sarcastic. I'm probably one of the bigger Sunsation fan boys on the board :) I'm paraphrasing some of the statements on this thread already.

I will give my two cents....
I think you cant go wrong with either three options you stated. They are both all high quality boats. I think it comes down to 3 general topics....
1. Budget: It seams you have that really well defined.. It seams you also want to keep the boat for ~10 yrs... I would think new equipment with a warranty is definitely a plus over any used alternative.
2. Use: I think this can sometimes be overlooked when searching for a boat. Sometimes is tuff to come to the realization of what would work the best. We all want the canopied race boat until we realize how impractical it may be :) In regards to the Cig T/S option, if majority of your time on the water would include overnighting, then that would be the worst pic... If that is not what you plan to do, then your options are open in that sense. Also, were you plan to do majority of your boating, what are the normal water conditions? For example, while I love Cigs, I would never buy an old flatdeck mistress to boat on a calm inland lake..
3. Looks: This one my opinion means nothing.... I had to laugh at Stimleck's post.... "Cigarettes look like they are stuck in the past." I have to give him a thumbs up on that comment.... That is why I exactly love cigs.!! I personally do not like windshields nor molded on swim platforms. That is just my cup of tea... However, it does not mean I despise of a boat with that styling.

Good luck on your search.. I hope you get a chance to ride in all 3.. From general consensus of the cult, they love them ATs... It seams the sunny's also have just as strong following.. I dont think I have heard any bad of either boat from actual owners. As a buyer, that would make me feel confident in either purchase if I was in your shoes. In regards to Cigs, it seams you either love em or hate em.....

Jr.

Looks are all subjective, but quite frankly you're high......

36' Sunsation is better compared to the 33' Active Thunder. Remember the Sunsation has a ~2 foot swim platform, and the option of staggered engines included in that 36' USCG measurement. The 33' Active Thunder is true 33' feet, plus a bolt on swim platform; and we really don't like doing staggered setups. Tried it before, and it does not improve the way the boat runs, as Harry designed and patented the DDC to run with side/side config. That all makes for about the same amount of square footage real estate on both boats EXCEPT for the sunpad/engine cover; which will be bigger on the Sunsation.

Other facts:
The 33AT is literally built on a 9/10 scale of the 37AT that's been tried and true for 15 years. Also, the cockpit of the 33 and 37 ATs are exactly identical in space and floor plan.
The 36 Sunsation was designed by sectioning/lengthening the 32SS hull which they have also had much success with for several years.

Two of these are a 33 cabins, and the rest are 37. Can you tell the difference? (not a quiz, easy to figure out by looking at pics here on OSO)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]518251[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518257[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518252[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518253[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518254[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518255[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518256[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518266[/ATTACH]

(BTW, pics 2 & 3 are different boats, look closely. Also, a couple are several years old, just added to show perspective and options. The couch filler fits queen size sheets for example.)


We are willing to build what the customer wants, but we're not going to compromise the construction of the boat, or passenger safety.
Open bow/mid-cabin? Yes, it can be done. You can see the bulkhead above where the transition would be.

+1.......I love the look of the old style 32 Dominator and the F4 but the newer boats look really tall to me......Cig wins the silhouette on the horizon competition hands down.....:whistle:

Brian,

What does a 33/520 boat cost to build? A 37/520 boat?

I have had an MCOB 32 for the past 7 years. The open bow has been great with the kids. Speed and handling is no different with closed or open bow. If you go with with the 36 MCOB, I would seriously go with the most strip down cabin you can. I have all the amenities which of course don't get used and take up all the space leaving just room for 3 people to sit in the cabin.Staggereds versus side by side engines may make a slight difference in handling, but speedwise is awfully close to the same. Either going with 4 stand up bolsters or leaving a lot of room between the bench and front bolsters would be my choice.

I have been in the 36 700 boat at 108 and its a great ride. If I didn't have the next 8 years of college to pay for with two kids, I would definitely be going after a 36 with 520s.

I can't answer that. We start with a blank sheet of paper on every build.
I'll get Pat to post the MBS 2014 MSRP sheet in the AT forum once he dials it in.

Based on the classified ads:
37/565 boat: 390K...http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o55715-en.html
33/520 boat: 300K...http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o55717-en.html
29/520 boat...145K..http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o55716-en.html