Man that's some serious air. Very fortunate to have survived.
Time to step up into Ejection Seats

I'm glad to hear Mike should make a full recovery, they are both very, very lucky to be alive! Thank goodness the boat dissipated so energy in the air and by dragging the sponson during the flip, not to mention the angle of impact going in on the starboard side like that certainly helped these guys survive. The super tough carbon epoxy construction held up amazingly well, but that layup and canopy design would have been no match for the hydrodynamic forces that could have very easily have ripped the canopy right off had the angle of impact been different.

It's easy for us to say that canopies need to be built tougher, but I don't think most folks understand the hydrodynamic pressures involved at these speeds. Once the water has penetrated or breached the hull or canopy, it works like a hydraulic piston... even the best carbon epoxy layup and through bolted 1" thick Lexan doesn't stand a chance. Sure a structure could be built to handle these forces, but it would look be constructed and weigh more like a submarine... hardly practical for a light weight race/pleasure boat. Detachable safety capsules are probably the safest and most practical way to approach this, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be for these dual purpose boats... although something certainly worth considering for all out race boats like the turbine powered Mystic's running north of 200 mph.

Another thing that was brought up earlier in this thread was active stability control. It's worth mentioning that I believe AL Copland's Phenom was built with this technology in mind. I don't know if the software was ever fully tested or perfected, but the front wing on that boat was designed to work as a computer controlled stability management system. In theory it's a sound principle, but in practice I would image getting all the algorithms correct for the dynamics of running high speeds of the ever changing conditions of offshore racing would have to be an extremely challenging task at best... designing and implementing such a system is likely way beyond what most in the resin bucket industry are likely capable of doing without a lot of help from a team of engineers, and even then there would no doubt be a pretty good learning curve.

Again, I wish Mike (and his family) a speedy recovery and hope the injuries aren't too serious.

Found this video of the crash take from further down the course than the videos I've seen so far. Not the best footage, but this one captures the sounds of the impacts well. Truly frightening. Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7ECD9xe7U

been following the story most of the weekend since it happened and all I can say is WOW that thing took one hell of a hit and held up amazingly well. Glad theyre alive and kicking and prayers to the families and a speedy recovery.

Not sure if anyone caught the Today show this morning on NBC, but they announced that both occupants flew out of the boat during the crash. If you're going to show this on THE NATIONAL news, GET YOUR FREAKING FACTS STRAIGHT YOU JACKA$$ES!!!:bong:

I am far from a party pooper and love high powered machines and fascinated with all things fast and powerful! I would like to see all the boat manufacturers get together and combine forces to come up with some kind of fail safe system to prevent the high speed blowover. Something simple and cost effective.... Like a spoiler up front or a way to dump the high pressure air under the boat while simultaneously auto-deploying a drag chute from the transom?? Something to prevent an impending blowover and safely slow the boat down?

i dont know sh*t about this stuff but is there any possibility of putting computer controlled air brakes or a horizontal stabilizer on these boats that would help prevent this. These boats are so fast and and almost more like an aircraft in many ways at these speeds.

canard style forward horizontal stabilizers come to mind

http://www.lakeglenvillemtntop.com/Beech_Starship.jpg

Saw the same article, that's the news media for you, if you can't get the report right, better off saying nothing at all. My best to Mike and Joel.

Most MSM, which usually have a left leaning agenda, aren't concerned with reporting the actual facts of a story, they will run with whatever version they can come up with that will generate the most controversy. In this case, I imagine their attempt is to portray performance boats as being dangerous implements of death which need to be banned from use on public waterways.

Even a 777 can fly at these speeds. One would believe we have reached a turning point that will require flight skills to progress much further. It's over my head for sure.

Prayers for the families involved.

Everybody should find a way to email the today show, I will when I get on home computer that's bs and needs to be corrected,
I haven't stopped thinking about these guys and hopeing both make a full recovery

Two thumbs up! And most folks don't understand that water is incompressible - and thus it has very little "give" to it. Basically, you can roller skate on water at about 60 MPH. Hopefully that will give some folks a better idea of how unforgiving it really is and how tough it is to design a safety system to handle it.

LOL - Gotta Love OSO!

I hope that Outerlimits, Mystic and others are taking notes right now. I am sure "we" the OSO peanut gallery can collectively solve catamaran flip overs by Friday.

So far we've come up with these solutions:
canards
parachutes
upforce
downforce
blow thru catamaran decks
detachable pods
ejection seats
under trim
over trim
stripper poles

Of the 40,000 views and 170 replies probably less than .001% of us build boats, have engineering degrees, or have worked with aerospace or hydrodynamics.

In the end, I love this forum, we truly believe we can solve the worlds problems and catamaran flip overs...
But in actuality the most any of us can really contribute is "dude, hold my beer" - And even that will probably turn into a "Fountain" thread. LOL

The irony behind it is that this thread had 40,000 views and I will bet that is 40,000 people that hope and pray the guys on this boat get well very soon. That is a lot of positive thoughts and prayers headed in the right direction and pretty darn cool!

After Mike has recovered we can start a thread, on Cockpits and Control systems, 20 years ago I had Cockpit adjustable Canards, which were applied to control attitude as there mounting position were well forward on the sponsons, they worked fine, now the pressures like I said we did a thread, but when you have "Experts" chime in who never built anything OR did the Basic calculations it becomes imposable to get the Point across , Best Regards Mike that was one Hell of a ride you took, Well past a "E" Ticket !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Dw__tBhCY

Here is the email address

[email protected]

link to the video
http://www.today.com/video/today/55929216

"Where there is no conflict there is no interest." Frank Ervin, former Regent of the University of Texas, regarding how to sensationalize and draw attention to any matter.

It was asked earlier if I was a pilot, yes I have been flying since '71 as well as an A&P and for the past 22 years I run a business doing design and building road race and rally cars. Boats have been a hobby since the mid 60s. I have designed and built 6 airplanes and started my performance boating by building a 3 point hydro powered by a 20H back before I had a drivers licence.

Back to matters here, there have been some good points throughout this thread.
As for pitch stability, I am sure an algorithm can be written that can provide a major reduction in chance of blowovers without inducing a stuff. A comment a few pages back was yes we can make the boats safe for the current speeds but then we will just put more power to them to go faster. Now add in an active pitch stability, that soon will no longer be a safety device but will now be used to actively raise the hull to reduce drag, OK add active roll stabilization and we soon will be lowering the drives so we can propel the boats with the hulls not touching water.

Yes to those saying nuts to all this, We do need to keep up with safety, some of my background has been in accident investigation, this has been in both aircraft an race cars. I have learned allot here. From that I would love to see how seats and harnesses are mounted. Some pictures I have seen of the suspension seats are a bit frightening.
I started my comments many pages back with the fact we will see major improvements in crash safety due to this one being survived and that Mike survived the horrors of going through this.
I expect these improvements will be addressing seat and belt mounting as well as the containment shell around the occupants. Having closed cockpits is of little value if they do not hold up at the current operating speeds not to mention when we see these boats touching 300 in the near future.
God forbid when electronics come into play here.
Sorry for the lack of providing quotes and references, I just do not have the time to do so properly.

Thank you for posting the e mail address, I e mailed them.

Since when is the main stream media interested in getting their facts straight or reporting the facts AT ALL?

I was with Joel for most of the day Saturday and part of the day Sunday at the hospital....although nothing was broken he was in a ton of pain.....all he was concerned about was the condition of his friend Mike Fiore....On Sunday he insisted on seeing the boat....it was very emotional...he asked for all to continue to pray for Mike a full recovery

Nail meet hammer. IMO this is 100% how things would unfold. These speeds are making the boat/airplane lines blurry.

I am hoping Mike has a 100% recovery.

I'll be the first to admit.....never even ridden in a cat.......forget driving one at speed! :popcorn:


Better count me out on problem solving this one! :D

True. Perhaps future high speed boats need air handling wings and stabilizers like the land speed record vehicles. This is a likely development. In the meantime Godspeed to the two injured men, and may they have a full recovery. My prayers are with you both.

http://www.2dayblog.com/2010/12/30/h...d-record-cars/

I replied-
Will post their reply, should one arrive. :rolleyes:

The most reasonable and worth while post, worth reading and worth posting. This thread is not the place to solve speed and safety issues, not having a bunch of silly comments just to increase some ones post counts. Sometimes in the near future it will be a worth while discussion. For now let us wish Mike a speedy recovery, glad that Joel is walking and better. The rest can come at a later time once my buddy is out of danger. Get well Mike.

Very sad to see.
Best wishes for quick and hopefully full recoveries!

Bottom line is that this was the latest design and it basically worked as designed. They are both alive which speaks more than anything. I know Mike already put a ton of effort and time into the safety of this boat and it showed.

I am sure Mike and team will make improvements based on what they learn from this. Its very rare to be in this type of crash and live to learn from it.

Mike is a good friend and I watched this live in shock. Based on what I saw I feared the worst. SO thankful they will both recover from this, amazing.

Get better soon Mike, I can't wait to hear you tell the story.

Joel, glad you are out and on the mend physically and mentally. its going to take awhile to recover from this for both of you.

Mike

As my screen name suggests, I am also a pilot (since 77), I have been a software engineer in aviation, I have been on NTSB investigation panels. I've studied fluid dynamics and aerodynamics over the years. I've flown big iron, military jets, and small puddle jumpers. Right now, I wish I worked for a company or the industry on this issue. Certainly a challenge, but very do-able. The biggest issue would be the cost. This isn't an inexpensive industry, and making it more expensive might be a risk to sales and growth. I know people are screaming "safety above cost", but that never happens. Even the FAA and NTSB will do a cost benefit analysis on some of the recommendations from an event. For racing, this could have additional issues. If a system were in place for safety, but it made the boat faster (as you could drive right on the edge with reduced fear), would it be allowed? I've always worked under the "Safety first, everything else second" motto. But I understand business pretty well too.

Just saw some good news. Worth sharing and not debating other issues. Will do them later.
From: "LakeExpo.com" .. So it's in the news, sort of speak.
Joel Begin, the driver of the Outerlimits catamaran that crashed at the Shootout on Aug. 23, is being released from the hospital today—Sunday, Aug. 24—according to Ron Duggan, the race director. Begin was taken to Lake Regional Hospital after the crash on Saturday morning. Fiore, however, has several broken bones, and was scheduled for surgery on Sunday to begin the mending process for one of them. Duggan reported the driver was moving his fingers and toes after the crash and indicated his neck was not broken.
The official word from Fiore's family is that he is in critical condition, but is stable.
Duggan also reported Fiore was responsive on Saturday night and Sunday morning.
Speedy recovery Mike.

How do i find the OL turnover video?

We were there and saw it live. Shocked like everyone there. Mike and Joel know that you are in all of our prayers every day.

Chris Reindl

It was great to see Joel yesterday at the shop, as well as you Mark. It was certainly a tough thing to see him with the boat. We are praying for a full recovery for Mike.

00

Wishing Joel and Mike a speedy and full recovery. Post # 185 from Cole was one of the only worthwile post on here other than everybody wishing the two racers well wishes. Just my $.02

also sent one out, We will see,

Great to hear that Joel is moving around, I'm sure he has a good support group close bye, stay strong bud! Also we keep thinking of Mike and saying a prayer, speedy recovery buddy!

I edited some of the better you tube vids together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7LFcZnIm9I&feature=youtu.be

Thank you for the putting that together, It really shows how dramatic an event can be... I have seen many of the videos and this version truly is the closest thing to actually being there.

Have know Mike for many years. Bought an OL from him back in the mid 90's when he was just getting started. He has been a tremendous asset to our sport and I know he will continue to design and build state of the art high performance boats for many years to come. Best wishes on a full and speedy recovery Mike.

Every time I watch those videos my hairs stand up... I'd love to see a measured breakdown to see the height of flight and distance traveled in the air between the final landing and the touch prior to that. I can only imagine the G forces their bodies had to go through during those strikes. Given what I know about the effects of G forces on the human body from investigating vehicle crashes, its thankful that those two men are still alive. As said before, thoughts and prayers go out to them and their families for a continued recovery.