Mercury Racing Showcasing Four-Valve Heads on LS Crate Engine at SEMA Show
 

Intriguing development for Mercury Racing, http://speedonthewater.com/new-boat-...-sat-sema-show

Very impressed with the time and money Mercury is putting into their engines these days.

Can't wait for the NA marine version to come out- just think of what might be...

900 hp
600+ hours before a top end rebuild
552CI
900+ torque
60k

Idk just throwing some stuff out there.

I'm being told that it's based off a LS7 so 427ci

That's one way to slow an LS down, put a Ford style head on it!

Let the bashing begin......

Seriously it is cool, but why avoid the LS platform for this long then reinvent the wheel? LS engines are already far more capable than the old SBC Merc still uses. I do think up to a certain power level (albeit quite high) I do believe the LS platform is a great replacement for the heavy Big Block.

I would imagine this motor should be higher than 600 HP otherwise that is a great expense and time in design to barely eclipse stock LS engines, or "cam only" swaps.

I would like to see the in depth details of it though.

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what is the C.I. displacement of this new crate motor?



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Cool stuff but will be big $$$$. No away around that.
Mod it with different cams down the line ? Ah, no. Good luck.

Again, cool stuff and like seeing companies come out with different stuff.....but again, for us 99%'rs would be even cooler. LOL.

I've spent a ton of time in the past couple months trying to figure out how to make this work.... I'm a HUGE GM guy and play with LS junk every day but it's hard to look past the HP/CID of the new Coyote 5.0s. They are mean for their size. Take that math and apply it to 400+ cube builds then add more efficiency with bigger cams and we're looking at 650-700hp NA (keyword: Reliable!!) SMALL BLOCKS!!! THEN add the boost! This is good stuff here, guys!

I would think a N/A ls crate motor with good heads like this could make 600 hp, Ilmor makes 570 with pretty standard LSX heads. Add some boost and you have 750 to 900 hp and mercury has a large void in that range.

This was long overdue in my opinion. This is another move in the right direction to reduce the biggest weak link in marine performance engines. This should have happened 10 years ago. The only big problem is space that it will require, especially on the engines that will be required to have catalytic converters.

Except you can't punch the new 5.0's out to 400+ cubic inches like you can the LS's.

The thing is that LS heads flow so well already, is it worth the expense and all the unique parts potentially breaking to have 4 valve heads?

I personally don't understand why Merc or Ilmor doesn't use an LSA crate and go from there like Seven marine did with their outboards - and look at the success they're having. It's ridiculous we can't get the same package in a sterndrive.

illmor 570

Here's what i think would be real cool for the 4 valve heads.

Say they go ino production and after a few years they work the bugs out - there's always some bugs with new stuff right ?

And then GM calls merc and says, can we use your heads for our new Vette - SC and NA ?

Be like the old days but obviously way freakin better.

marine power has been building small block alum LS motors for years. 500hp/550tq. they have a contract with one of the tow boats and its a awesome package. there is a 96 35' executioner getting them right now. still getting the setup right but was over 1.5mpg!

Motor is a stock cady cts motor with a blower!

Link?

http://www.marinepowerusa.com/airboat-engines-lsa.php

That's the ones going in the foutian

Needs more exhaust back pressure

You guys should go to Nelson Racing Engines website. They have twin turbo's LSX making 1900 hp for street cars. I know its a "car" engine but I know I could marinize one of those and make 1400+ hp on pump gas. The cathedral ports on those 2 valve heads are so efficient. Four valves are nice but not absolutely needed to make HP and torque.

Wannabe

And stronger valve springs.

And a 23° degree split camshaft with stock GM intake lobe.

Neat but mostly useless IMO. Ls7 heads are damned good as is. After market Ls7 heads are even better, I have an ETP/Mast headed 427 with a hydraulic roller and reasonable valve springs and thats 700hp so this thing needs make damn good power to make any sense. I'm guessing the mercury engine cost alot more than this.(and yes it can be built for marine duty for not too much more.) http://www.mastmotorsports.com/view.php?id=155&c=4&s=6

Pretty neat but seems they are spending a lot of money for almost no reason.

As stated you could make right at or close to 700 on pump gas with a hydraulic roller cam.

Be cool to see what they do with it though.

This would have to be an improvement that someone other than mercury could use as currently mercury doesn't even offer an LS based engine.

As others have pointed out the current engines are really good so to justify the mercury pricing it really has to deliver something great.

Its nice that mercury has joined the 21st century since nearly every other marine engine manufacturer ((PCM,Crusader,Volvo,Illmor,MarinePower) etc has been using LSx engines for years..All of them have engines that make 400 or more hp..No fancy heads, superchargers,etc..
But Mercury can not compete with them on the same engines because of the insane prices it charges boat manufacturers who use their engines so they come up with these uber expensive heads to make it seem like its "their" engine.. Look at the new V6 they came up with,, spent a ton of r&d to produce an engine
more expensive than anyone elses base LSx motor yet making less hp and tq and using Mercury specific parts so they can rape you there later as well.. If it wasnt for the fact that the insane prices are hidden in the overall price of a new boat and paid with financing of said boat they would not be able to sell many engines..

Let's see. 15° - 12° degree valve angle (depending which you use), super effecient combustion chambers, raised intake runners, and mid 300 (to upper)cfm ports from the got damn factory.

For a small block !

Massive power from small cubes. Heads ready to take on big cubes.

What the hell is not too like ?

Wish they'd spend the money and do same type heads that fit the Chevy gen VI big block.

Screw the 4 valvers. No $$$$ need.

I believe Mercury stated a few years ago after they developed the new 1350 that they feel the weak point of the GM engines is the overhead valve train combinations. I'd assume this is why they may be developing a overhead cam set-up for the LS.

You can stoke these now to 380".

I know i'm going to get a bashing but seriously why the love for big heavy lifters and pushrods? Overhead cams and lighter valve train are soooo much better suited for the high rpm abuse we give our dinosaurs. You can buy an entire NEW 420hp / 400ft. lbs of torque weighing only 444lbs total ea, for what some guys put in their heads alone. The fuel saved while idling through no wake zones alone...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=11829

or

http://www.fordracingbyspeedshopdire...6007-a50xs.htm

Some day.... Closed cooling and dry exhaust.

probably cause a stock ls2 makes almost same power and more torque at the same rpm for $1500 less with those old school heavy lifters and pushrods..
to a manufacturer marinizing engines $1500 a unit is huge..
There is also the fact the coyote is approx 3" wider than big block chevy and approx 6"+ wider than a small block.. Thats a lot of real estate in a twin engine boat..
__________________________________________________ __________
GM LS2 Crate Engine
Part No: GM-LS2CR
Price: $5,899.00
The LS2 produces 400HP @ 6500 RPM and 400lbs/ft of torque @ 4400 RPM
__________________________________________________ _____________

5.0L 4V COYOTE 420 HP MUSTANG CRATE ENGINE
M-6007-M50*
Suggested Retail Price
$7,399.00
420 horsepower @ 6500 rpm and 390 ft.-lb.+ of torque @ 4250 rpm

this is awesome I thought of LS based 7 years ago and going strong cant beat them don't need those heads its all for the bling factor

I referenced wrong site

http://www.fordracingbyspeedshopdire...m-6007-m50.htm

Price:$6,319.00

The LS 2 needs 361 cu to obtain 400hp
Ford 5.0 is 302 cu to obtain 420hp but more importantly a flat 390 ft lbs. torque curve. STOCK

Yes the ford is wider but the exhaust ports face down.

I'm not saying the LS 2 won't work but the Ford (due to the head design) should outperform in every way.

If must have 400cu see link below

http://www.indmar.com/Engine/RaptorS...TORSERIES.aspx

Not saying its not a good engine but Im sure it will be as popular
as every other Ford engine in the past has been in the offshore world..
:D
(ps: I have a couple each in my stable so Im not partisan to anyone!)

In an I/O our exhaust's go up and then out. So with this 'facing down exhaust port' to get a proper transition (bend) without restriction it would make the exhausts wider. If they did not get wider, then the exhaust port would get hampered. No ?

Yep, sounds right to me. The only boat it would work in would be a single engine boat, or staggered twins.

Lets also not forget than the Coyote block/sleeves are no good (factory) beyond around 600HP. So if your boat has one in it, and then you feel the need to put a blower on it...

You may as well start out with a 496, LOL

Im actually wondering in the back of my head if Merc is doing this and planning on trying to SELL this tooling and molds and stuff TO GM down the road after they get it more figured out.

The LS2 was also debuted in 2005... Not sure where to start the argument with the above. The LS package is just so simple and effective its hard to beat. I think this design from Mercury will just be a super stable valvetrain, with big 7K+ RPM, and at least 425horse. That would be bullet proof with a good bottom end. Which I think is the next question... Which block???

Oh boy, someone better tell Edelbrock not to warranty this motor. It makes too much HP?

http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edel...46326/10002/-1

No doubt the exhaust port exiting downward creates some challenges but a thru prop or utilizing the gap between to rear of the engine and the transom would be an option to discharge above the water line.

My main point to this whole discussion is Mercury Racing is recognizing GM's weaknesses and is proactive by reducing valvetrain weight. How many foreign engines still use pushrods? I can't name one! I'm a Blue oval / Bowtie guy but how long to we have to wait for the engineers from GM to design some decent valvetrains?

Here's the scope...

Up to this point this project has been called a "design exercise" to show off Merc's engineering capabilities. my take is they would not forge new heads for the hell of it, So I would expect to see more of this platform from Merc.

From what I was told by someone very close to this project (I'll leave his name and position out for his sake), they have not run this setup yet, they just completed it before SEMA. Obviously offering less maintenance and increased reliability, with a system like this you'd need to really spin it to see the major power improvements over the GM design. They are thinking 8000 rpm and 800hp NA is very possible with this setup. What surprised me was he said they are looking at selling this setup as a kit. He said they are thinking $4k for the heads bare with the conversion pieces. $10k for complete heads and system. $20k for complete engine with those heads and DOHC covnersion. Sounds reasonable to me, but obviously they aren't for sale yet at those prices so we will see what hits the market and and at what price point.

The way they added the drive system was pretty slick, they basically just spaced out the factory accessories with nice aluminum bracketry and installed their drive system behind them.

Here's some more info and pics:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...psa2eb880d.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...psb449b463.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps138c948b.jpg


Now what I would really like to see is for Merc (or someone else) to develop a similar kit for the BBC!!!!! ;)

well thats not gonna fit in a vette to easily.

and if everyone has a hard on for 4 valves per,,why not just go this route. http://www.araoengineering.com/

you guys want to cry,,wait till you lose a bearing or 2 and your upper end oil passages to those cams get plugged.things like to gall up real fast and stop stuff in the upper end.
half my work is fixing foreign heads.