MDC Drive Guardian Update- One Year Later.
 

As a lot of you may know, we tried a new product on the race boat this season called a "Drive Guardian". Made by Marine Design Corp, the Drive Guardian takes place of a regular rubber drive coupler and replaces it with a "clutch like" mechanism. The idea is to erase any torque spikes that are sent to the drives. These torque spikes can be caused getting on plane, rough water, etc.

So, the big question. Did they work?


Yes! Yes they did. We compared our pinion gears from the 2013 race season to those of the 2014 race season and the results are fantastic. There is still some wear, which was expected. But there was absolutely no pitting or chipping, which is what we found a lot of last year.

"At the end of 2013 when I pulled our drives apart, I couldn't believe my eyes. We were running on borrowed time, and only ran a handful of races that year. I really didn't think my drives could last a full season. Fast forward to 2014, we ran more races, won another championship and the gears look great. I have confidence in my drives again." -Throttleman and engine builder Jason Saris.

Comparison pictures of the gears from 2013 and 2014 to follow.

We recommend this product to anyone suffering the bravo blues. Particularly in rough water environments, or anyone who likes to run hard.


Our boat is a 32 Cobra- 650hp Saris Racing Engines- XR Drives with IMCO -2 lowers. 4 Blade BBlades Propellers and I can assure you, we don't run easy. Pushing 8500lbs through the water isnt an easy task, and the Drive Guardians have made our bravos withstand the abuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSduiml0fjA

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http://www.marinedesigncorp.com/
www.facebook.com/TeamSaris

For more information and pricing call Jason at Team Saris Performance Marine- 518-644-3080

Original thread when we first teamed up
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...14-season.html

Other race teams sporting MDC products include Smith Brothers Racing, Spirit of Qatar and CK Motorsports Cat Can Do

Those velocity stacks look awesome must really hear the intakes when you punch it!

Does the Drive Guardian fit in the space in a normal install or the engines need to be moved forward?

It's my understanding that it's a direct replacement for the coupler.

We have been extremely pleased with our Drive Guardian system as well. MDC has been great to work with. Running our OPA class 6 boat as hard as we do is tough on the drive train and the Drive Guardian gives us the confidence that we can push the equipment to the max.

i really like the concept of these things. Just curious Johnny do you notice it doing its job, i mean do you notice when its really pressed will it let you know its slippin a bit?

This product if properly adjusted makes a lot of sense to me. The question is how much are people willing to part with for what many will see as preventative maintenance and/or an insurance policy? What's the cost on these? At $1000 or so for a similar clutch unit in the automotive aftermarket I can see these really catching on in the marine world, but if these are $2000+ each the line at the door probably won't be too long IMO. Since most folks are running twins, this insurance might be too costly. IMO if it cuts the number of drive replacements/rebuilds in half, it's a good long term investment, but again most people will likely not want to pay big money for something that can't be seen or for something that doesn't make the boat faster.

Not to mention the engine(s) have to be pulled in most cases to install this product (unless the engine(s) are out anyway), so that adds significantly to the bill.

Awesome product overall!

Personally I don't think it will help an overpowered drive last any longer from premature wear.

It will lesson parts breakages from torque spikes incurred when the prop exits and re enters

Sometimes a drive breaks due to a part prematurely coming apart and sending metal through the drive resulting in other parts breaking.

That is a great report, and feedback!

I've met the owner of MDC , extremely intelligent man, who for once, has some DATA to support the product he engineered. Rare these days.

I spend alot of time, probably more time than I should, BS'ing with fellow boaters. Whether it be in person, on the telephone, email, and of course here on oso. I find it somewhat amusing, that many times when the drive guardian concept has come up in conversation, I've found so many people to "Nay say" the product. Some guys will debate you until they are physically out of breath, about whether to run Mobil 1 or amsoil gear lube. I've seen guys go out and spent 3-6k dollars on intercoolers for their superchargers, but never once put an air intake temperature gauge on their engines, to even see if the intercooler was even warranted, or what safety factor it's even providing for them. But bring up the "Drive Guardian", to some of these guys, and its snake oil that isnt going to work.

I see someone mentioned the cost being an issue for them. How much is a new upper gearset when they blow? Snapping vertical shafts? How much money have some guys invested in breaking and rebuilding their bravo's prematurely ? How much money have some guys spent, doing modifications to add strength to their drive? I know some guys that in 5 seasons have spent nearly enough money in repairing/upgrading their bravo's where they could have bought arnesons by now.

For years, many, including myself, were under the impression, that the key to getting a weaker drive to live was simply go easy getting on plane, and all will be well. MDC has provided actual data, in real world, of what torque the drivetrain actually sees while out on the water running hard, and the enormous torque spikes that occur when the prop aerates for a millisecond and grabs again. That data to me is mind blowing. But still, some guys will say, "Eh, its snake oil, just go easy getting on plane you'll be ok''.

Is this a product thats going to allow you to install a pair of 1350's in front of your XR drives ? NO, its not. But its not intended for that either. But, if one truly believes the saving grace to keeping their drives together in a offshore boat is going easy getting on plane, go watch the Amsoil boat running in key west video again, and tell me its the "planing" they need to worry about for breaking drives lol. Not only a boater, but I work in the trucking/construction industry. I see many blown driveshafts, blown rear axles, etc, on heavy duty equipment. Its not when that big Kenworth is fully loaded climbing a mountain with a huge diesel with throttle floored that snaps stuff, or even wears the parts out. Its when a driver dumps the clutch repeatedly, or tires spinning in the mud and they catch dry ground in the landfill, or things of that nature that lead to parts breakage and failure. Same back in the day when you had a car with a 10 bolt rear end. You could run around on the street all day blowing the tires off all day long. Take it to the track, bolt some slicks on, and boom, blow the rear right off the line. NO slip means something got to give.

When I see race teams like Saris, Cat can do, Qatar, actually having enough faith to install the product( these guys are no dummies), run it in their raceboats, and provide positive feedback, that's enough to make me consider one as a viable option. So thank you Team Saris, for this report, and I as a consumer, am looking forward to hearing more positive feedback on this product. From where I sit at this point, reading this thread, the product seems to be working.

Very well said Mild Thunder ! You took the words out of my mouth.
When Mike explained the product to me and the length he went to do develop and test it I was blown away.

Its a definite winner.


Here is a few pictures:

Bravo version

http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s5/...45206276-3.jpg


SSM version:

http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s5/...10144629-3.jpg

Very cool product for sure. I'd love someone with a 42 fountain with xr blues to install one. I've already conceded scx uppers and sc lowers when I get one. This would be a much cheaper route if it saves it. Lol

Not at all. If you told me we had regular rubber couplers Id believe you

Well Put Mild!!!!!
It's an excellent product. Our before and after gear sets prove that. It isn't a magic potion, its real engineering, and it works.
You're right on the 1350 deal too. You know some guy will buy a set (we will be releasing prices soon, stay tuned. I bet it's a lot less than what some of you are speculating), put them in a fountain with 1100s and cry he still broke bravos. And with our program, we do see some wear on the gears. But, why wouldnt we? We'd see some wear on the gears if all we did was idle. Fact is, we run our stuff as hard as possible, and if all we see on our gears is a bit of wear at the end of a 5-7 race season, that's a total win.

Actually I would be a player for a set of them. They seem to be just what my set up is lacking (among other things) and seem to be a great bang for the buck if pricing ends up in the range we are thinking.

I will keep you posted Abones

I think we are all trying to say the same thing. :flag:

Amazing product! Amazing Data! A new Amazing company much needed in the offshore world!

Its not fair to confuse members that the drive guardian actually "is" snake oil. Its a tool that when used in the proper application will help Drastically!

It will not make a large enough/if any positive impact on an overpowered drive recreational driven that doesn't see much air.

Many of us have been given false hopes from drive upgrades that in all reality might help a little but weren't worth the money spent.

Any model of drive that is overpowered will prematurely wear out. It happens more then we know, only bravo guys come on here and complain the #6 guys just pay the money and fix! Lol!

I would personally use this product on unleashed since the HP matches the drives rating AND I drive her HARD!

But I don't feel its the best solution for everyone's situation.

Out of curiosity, what's the price point?

Merc should put these in front of every bravo. I love the idea and the execution looks great.

I suspect drive manufactures have been giving conservative input torque ratings due to this phenomenon.

Icdedpeople and mild thunder should crank up to 1200hp in front of those #5s with these and let us know how it goes. :D

Merc should put these in front of every bravo. I love the idea and the execution looks great.

I suspect drive manufactures have been giving conservative input torque ratings due to this phenomenon.

Icdedpeople and mild thunder should crank up to 1200hp in front of those #5s with these and let us know how it goes. :D

No argument Kevin. For the avid Poker Runner or Racer, it's a great idea and a great product to have onboard...no matter what HP you have. Even If I had a production vee, with 525s and XRs, that I ran at Poker Runs and ran hard, Id install these in a heartbeat.

It will immensely help cat owners. Those little blips when running in a chop are awful for drives, the DriveGuardian will alleviate a lot of that. And to clear any confusion, it's not something you can feel happening. The boat will handle, run and feel 100% exactly the same.

can you shoot me a price when available as I m building a new cat whit new xr its bravo s behind 600 hp
look like a winner compared to the normal coupler

thx bor

"It will immensely help cat owners. Those little blips when running in a chop are awful for drives, the DriveGuardian will alleviate a lot of that". Quote

Even better! Please keep me posted,

I might be able to crack the throttles without my A$$ puckering, or replacing gears in a rush to get back out on the water and play some more!

Maybe I then I can sell my cache of bravo upper gears! But to who? Ha Ha

Johnny,

Looking at those pics, it's hard to argue that this product is a home run. Of course you had your dad behind the sticks and he's no slouch. I'd have to believe that with "an average idiot" at the sticks, the results would be equally amazing. (Remember though, the "average idiot" would blow a drive in one tenth the time it takes you guys.

Man, it's nice to see somebody come out with a well thought out product that actually works. I'm going to have to recommend these for several of our customers that don't know how to throttle a fast boat.

Tom

Will do.

I think I private messaged everyone who had expressed interested with a price. Anyone else can PM or email me
[email protected]

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Do you have the drive guardian installed in the green machine Kryptonite ?

No and its also sitting with a blown up XR at the moment...no joke there lol.
There will be one in it for next season.

johnny pm me with some pricing looks like a great product anything that will lower shock loads will help keep the drive alive

Since this has a clutch pack in it, what is the anticipated lifespan of the unit itself? Would have to be a wear item right?

I think it is a great idea.

****** double post

DriveGuardian contains a clutch pack with a Kevlar friction material similar to some high-performance automotive racing clutches. The clutch pack slips a fraction of a rotation each time the propeller re-enters the water so the service life will likely exceed most engine rebuild cycles. However, the clutch plates are replaceable when the need arises.

And thank you :)
Mike

Good info, pretty much what i figured but was curious nonetheless.

Another question. Since it is torque based slip, is there a power limit that the unit has before being overcome by the engines torque? For example getting on plane with 700ftlbs it wont slip, but what if someone was hard on it with say 1000ftlbs, would it cause clutch slippage getting on plane or accelerating hard.

Great question Philm, each DriveGuardian is calibrated to transmit a torque value that is greater than the engine's peak output. So, it will not be possible to make the clutch slip by simply accelerating too hard.

Mike

Each DriveGuardian is calibrated for a specific maximum torque that is usually at a preset value that is just above the peak output of the engine. So, yes an engine upgrade would most likely require a recalibration.

Mike

Gotcha, so each one is custom "tuned" for the engine package it is going on. The peak shock load will always be greater than the peak engine torque anyway, probably many times greater in some cases.

So during a repower or engine upgrade these would have to be sent back to the factory for recalibration then?

Sorry for all the questions, just find this to be pretty interesting.

So my interest has been peaked! Very cool product!

I noticed they have a model for an SSM. Would this unit basically work on any outdrive that uses a transmission? Is it still as effective? With a transmission in between the outdrive and the engine which is also full of clutch plates does a transmission increase or decrease its effectivity?

I am in the process of converting my 84 scarab from BW and TRS to MG502 and Kaama surface drives. Would there be a benefit in this configuration?

Thanks
Jim

502, one of the reasons Mike developed the product is because he was personally blowing up drives and transmissions. The DriveGuardian replaced the coupler and it protects not only the drive but the transmission also.

The original design was developed for the NXT set up and bellhousing.
In my case we could not fit the DriveGuardian in that small space without going to new starters and different flywheel but now Mike has also solved that issue.

http://www.marinedesigncorp.com/our-products.html

Mike correct me if I`m wrong but with the latest design it is much more compact and fitment should not be an issue.




I also have a tech brief for anyone interested ...

Can someone please send me pricing for both SSM and bravo based units? Thanks!