why isn't their more O/B go fasts
02-21-2015 | 03:38 PM
#31
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Posts: 5,175
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From: Clearwater, FL
Alot of good points here. But, will these boats hold their value in say 20 years? What happens when these 300-400hp outboars are all blown up? With any inboard boat, jimmy the shade tree mechanic can pop an automotive based big or small block chevy into his old resin bucket and go boating. Thats what i did and many of my friends did. Budget boat with accessable and affordable parts.
I hear alot of talk about ease of maintenance and how its cheaper to maintain an outboard. But how about in the long run? How much is a major overhaul on a big outboard?
I know im really speaking for the "black motor" crowd here but i still think its pretty cool that with a motor originally out of a dump truck, a few bucks, and a Jegs catalogue you can do some pretty cool stuff. I think its because of this reason that alot of older I/O hulls find their way back onto the water. At least around here...
I hear alot of talk about ease of maintenance and how its cheaper to maintain an outboard. But how about in the long run? How much is a major overhaul on a big outboard?
I know im really speaking for the "black motor" crowd here but i still think its pretty cool that with a motor originally out of a dump truck, a few bucks, and a Jegs catalogue you can do some pretty cool stuff. I think its because of this reason that alot of older I/O hulls find their way back onto the water. At least around here...
Outboards are king and repair with quality is common. Inboard is hard to deal with and find someone not looking to rip you off.
I own a black motor boat and am stuck at the dock broken well more than my outboard buddies. Not that it breaks often but it has been enough to ruin more than one hands worth of fun days on the water for one reason or another.
02-21-2015 | 05:16 PM
#33
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Alot of good points here. But, will these boats hold their value in say 20 years? What happens when these 300-400hp outboars are all blown up? With any inboard boat, jimmy the shade tree mechanic can pop an automotive based big or small block chevy into his old resin bucket and go boating. Thats what i did and many of my friends did. Budget boat with accessable and affordable parts.
I hear alot of talk about ease of maintenance and how its cheaper to maintain an outboard. But how about in the long run? How much is a major overhaul on a big outboard?
I know im really speaking for the "black motor" crowd here but i still think its pretty cool that with a motor originally out of a dump truck, a few bucks, and a Jegs catalogue you can do some pretty cool stuff. I think its because of this reason that alot of older I/O hulls find their way back onto the water. At least around here...
I hear alot of talk about ease of maintenance and how its cheaper to maintain an outboard. But how about in the long run? How much is a major overhaul on a big outboard?
I know im really speaking for the "black motor" crowd here but i still think its pretty cool that with a motor originally out of a dump truck, a few bucks, and a Jegs catalogue you can do some pretty cool stuff. I think its because of this reason that alot of older I/O hulls find their way back onto the water. At least around here...
I can't think of a boat on OSO running a motor originally out of a dump truck.......
02-21-2015 | 05:31 PM
#35
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,879
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From: Southeast Michigan
The guy around the corner that builds all the demolition derby motors can't walk into Auto Zone and grab a set of bearings/rods/electronics sourced from supplier X/Y/R.O.C. for an outboard. That itself is part of the reliability factor.
02-21-2015 | 06:51 PM
#36
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,989
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From: Rochester, NY
I think there’s a very solid reason why there is – and isn’t – more high performance boats powered by outboards. I can sum it up in two words: power to weight ratio. (There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that cannot.)
If you look at 18’ – 24’ high performance boats, I think you’ll find that the overwhelming majority are outboard powered. Why? As I stated above – power to weight ratio. You simply cannot beat the power to weight ratio of an outboard on these smaller boats. Hell, a Mercury 300XS (heavy four stroke) on a 22’ Progression will run just under a hundred miles an hour. A Mercury 2.5 EFI Offshore (light two stroke) on the same hull will run around 90 MPH. (Oh, and the sound of one of those weed whackers at full song …) You simply will not touch those numbers with an I/O powered boat without silly levels of power.
A funny thing happens when you get bigger than about 24’ though. To get big numbers, you have to start clamping multiple outboards to the transom. Why? Again, power to weight ratio. You’re just not going to find reasonably light outboards putting out over about 300 HP. But when people start multiplying the number of motors on the transom, complexity, weight and cost skyrocket. And, adding a second (or third, or fourth …) motor doesn’t double, triple or whatever the speed. In fact, it gets counter-productive pretty quickly. And there’s only so much beam to work with on a transom when adding outboards.
But when you’re running I/O’s with today’s technology, it’s pretty easy to get well over 1,000 HP out of a single big block. Sure, you’re going to have to run Number Six Drives to handle the power, but a pair of monster twins will trump four or five or six outboards any day of the week. And as much as I hate to admit it, they’ll sound way better too.
So maybe if you could find reliable, high HP (well over 1,000 HP) outboards, maybe you’d see more of them on larger high performance boats. Just my 2 cents.
If you look at 18’ – 24’ high performance boats, I think you’ll find that the overwhelming majority are outboard powered. Why? As I stated above – power to weight ratio. You simply cannot beat the power to weight ratio of an outboard on these smaller boats. Hell, a Mercury 300XS (heavy four stroke) on a 22’ Progression will run just under a hundred miles an hour. A Mercury 2.5 EFI Offshore (light two stroke) on the same hull will run around 90 MPH. (Oh, and the sound of one of those weed whackers at full song …) You simply will not touch those numbers with an I/O powered boat without silly levels of power.
A funny thing happens when you get bigger than about 24’ though. To get big numbers, you have to start clamping multiple outboards to the transom. Why? Again, power to weight ratio. You’re just not going to find reasonably light outboards putting out over about 300 HP. But when people start multiplying the number of motors on the transom, complexity, weight and cost skyrocket. And, adding a second (or third, or fourth …) motor doesn’t double, triple or whatever the speed. In fact, it gets counter-productive pretty quickly. And there’s only so much beam to work with on a transom when adding outboards.
But when you’re running I/O’s with today’s technology, it’s pretty easy to get well over 1,000 HP out of a single big block. Sure, you’re going to have to run Number Six Drives to handle the power, but a pair of monster twins will trump four or five or six outboards any day of the week. And as much as I hate to admit it, they’ll sound way better too.
So maybe if you could find reliable, high HP (well over 1,000 HP) outboards, maybe you’d see more of them on larger high performance boats. Just my 2 cents.
02-21-2015 | 07:07 PM
#37
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
#2 - they are designed to run at high rpm, my motors can run all day at 5-5500K
#3 - pretty sure my whole motor is anodized aluminum so corrosion is greatly reduced vs steel block,
#4 - I dont know they just have a track record of running 1000 + hrs, maybe better R&D from mfg's?
They are far from indestructible but it is not uncommon for OB's to run 1500-3000 hrs, just like a long block you can replace a powerhead pretty easily.
Like I've said a million times for a salt water boater they are far, far superior IMO
02-21-2015 | 08:19 PM
#38
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,288
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From: New Jersey
Weight Vs. Power & Torque.
Up until the composite lay ups, vacuum bags, steps, and high hp outboards there was no comparison. That only evolved over the past 10-15 years. Look at the weights of a 38' boat in 2000 vs. now, no steps & sub 300 hp outboards.
Today, this may change and Nor-Tech is on the forefront of it with their hybrid boats.
Up until the composite lay ups, vacuum bags, steps, and high hp outboards there was no comparison. That only evolved over the past 10-15 years. Look at the weights of a 38' boat in 2000 vs. now, no steps & sub 300 hp outboards.
Today, this may change and Nor-Tech is on the forefront of it with their hybrid boats.
Last edited by Tom A.; 02-21-2015 at 08:21 PM.
02-21-2015 | 08:58 PM
#39
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VP of the tickfaw200
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,126
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From: baton rouge, louisiana
It was between a 33 powerplay OB boat and the cig when I was looking to buy again. Ended up with the cig and big cube BBC's but still think about the O/B boat and how easy it would be.
When I can buy a new boat it will be a closed deck OB boat
When I can buy a new boat it will be a closed deck OB boat
02-21-2015 | 09:04 PM
#40
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,329
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From: Merritt Island, FL
#1 - Simplicity of 2 stroke engine, cant speak for V-Rods or other 4S outboards
#2 - they are designed to run at high rpm, my motors can run all day at 5-5500K
#3 - pretty sure my whole motor is anodized aluminum so corrosion is greatly reduced vs steel block,
#4 - I dont know they just have a track record of running 1000 + hrs, maybe better R&D from mfg's?
They are far from indestructible but it is not uncommon for OB's to run 1500-3000 hrs, just like a long block you can replace a powerhead pretty easily.
Like I've said a million times for a salt water boater they are far, far superior IMO
#2 - they are designed to run at high rpm, my motors can run all day at 5-5500K
#3 - pretty sure my whole motor is anodized aluminum so corrosion is greatly reduced vs steel block,
#4 - I dont know they just have a track record of running 1000 + hrs, maybe better R&D from mfg's?
They are far from indestructible but it is not uncommon for OB's to run 1500-3000 hrs, just like a long block you can replace a powerhead pretty easily.
Like I've said a million times for a salt water boater they are far, far superior IMO
Let's look at this 2 strokes, yes simple and power to wieght is great. But what is the highest stock 2 stroke right now 300?
There are plenty of old school SBC and SBF 300 hp motors with 1500 plus hours. Granted you still have the outdrive and it is more complicated.
Closed cooling helps on the corrosion.
Over 1000 hours are we comparing apples to apples? Or are we comparing 500+hp with 250-300 hp? Even the black BBC are in the 400 plus range?
Don't take this wrong guys I just want to know the engineering reasons the egg beaters are so much better.
Last edited by Wildman_grafix; 02-21-2015 at 09:06 PM.
