I just wanted to make sure my point wasn't lost. No worries on offending me. It takes a lot more than that! :D

I know donzi/fountain/ baja is in business. I know of someone who just ordered several of each brand. few bajas including a 35' Outlaw, few classic donzis and a 29 single fountain.

He was a big part in putting Apple on a more successful road. Yes, Apple people love Jobs. He did create a god like persona within the tech industry and at his own company. But he's been dead how long now? Apple is still on top without him. He did fail epically with Next. Lucky for him Apple bailed him out. Jobs though would be nothing without his development team. Jobs isn't a computer engineer nor is he a programmer. He was just smart enough to realize everyone would need and use a computer and he found the right people to build it. Second he became a great promoter of those products. But the main point Apple is doing fine without him. Jobs actually needed Apple more then Apple needed jobs.

Next was such a big failure that you had to remind of it. Big risks don't always translate to big rewards.

"He was "just smart enough" to realize everyone would need and use a computer and he found the right people to build it." So why not ... Steve Wozniak? Or any of the people at IBM or HP, both of which have lost market share to Apple? Why wasn't anyone else "just smart enough?" Apple has made the computer (more or less) idiot proof. He demanded that the platform be intuitive. Without that imperative, we'd still be saving stuff to C and D drives.

Of course it takes talented engineers and code writers, but assembling that team ... oh dear, you could point to the individual parts of any successful company and say that the company would "be nothing" without them. Jobs had a vision and he drove people, sometimes too hard by most accounts, to execute it. Without the vision, there's nothing to execute. Without people who can execute a vision, that vision never gets realized. At its best, the relationship is symbiotic.

Like you, I've read a lot about him and, yeah, I've been fortunate to get to know a few people who work closely with/for him. The guy was brilliant and the company he created changed the way we see computers. I'm going to have to stand by the opinions of the people i know who worked for him. That said ... I am pretty sure he could be a totally demanding prick. But there was nothing "lucky" about him, at least in my view. He was brilliant.

Yes, Apple is doing great without him and will continue to. You could also make a strong case that the reason for that is the team he put in place and the corporate culture he created. Successfully companies have died with their founders. This one didn't. To me, that's even more evidence that he did an amazing job, even if that meant only that he hired great talent (and obviously we don't agree on that).

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. But I have enjoyed the discussion.

Now THAT was funny! L M A O

Delete c:\personal\bigtitbj.exe

Lol

^ Boy you are going way back there lol!

A lot of very insightful points made here but I think too many of us are looking at this from a "if you build it they will come" mindset. As Matt Truillo pointed out, one of the biggest problems is that the buyer market was drying up long before the financial crunch that happened. If nobody is waiting with money in hand to buy a product, it will not sell no matter how nice you make it. We have all watched the market shift towards center consoles and other sport boats that have pretty much wiped out the entry level market for go fast boats. The big name brands have survived due to loyal followings from people who can afford to keep purchasing them and they have adapted to fill specific niche markets at the upper end of the spectrum. We all are very passionate about the type of boats that we have and the brands that we are loyal to but unfortunately, the general market just is not there anymore.

Where I can see the impact of a charismatic leader/manufacturer/etc.. like Reggie Fountain, Don Arronow, Mike Fiore, etc. would be if they could create or recreate the social culture of the go fast boats. Leadership within the company and existing market would not be enough to change the financial times. It would require them inspiring others to join us in our insane addiction to offshore go fast style boats. Change the popular culture, then change the market.

Does anyone have Johnny Walker's cell number ?