Not sure on the beam change Lars.

I picked the Convincor because I loved their lines from when they first came out.
Always liked the classic, offshore vee's and I think the lines of the first era Convincors were perfect in every way.

My 24' Sonics had HUGE cabins but that required the tall front decks which made them look fat and stubby.
The older era flat decks are sharp race boats but the area under the bow is wasted. Similar to the smaller/mid size cats.
The newer era, Euro styled vees are sharp but they all look to be designed by people that have never weekended on their boats.
As in, no storage, now way to the front deck (anchoring/docking) , no side gangway from cockpit to bow/around windshield, etc, etc.

In my mind, if you gave me $15K to buy a small, trailerable, fast enough to be fun, weekendable :), Id find a virgin, late '80's /early '90's 25' Convincor GTX w/a Bravo one and a warmed over 454/502.
Timeless style and huge bang for the buck.

One of the most under appreciated makes there is.
Harold Kunkel who was a Checkmate dealer here in Ohio and did all their testing on new models and had an orig era 25' Convincor running mid 120's 20 yrs ago.

The twin O/B conversion is a project Ive always wanted to do.
The factory of course offered twin O/B's but they had splash wells which eliminated the sun lounges which I need to store my:

2 fold up bikes
Walmart inflatable dinghy
beach chairs
propane grill
2 anchors
4 bumpers
snorkle equip
etc

Yrs ago we were spending the weekend at anchor in one of our 24' Sonics at our favorite beach and had dinghied up to make breakfast on the beach.
A couple off a 39' Searay anchored beside us walked by as I had the lid off a pot of potatoes/onions/peppers while I was stirring it on my $18 propane grill, beside the eggs, sausage and toast.
The guy stops and looks/smells the breakfast, looks at our tiny ass boat, looks at his boat, looks at his wife, looks back at my cooking breakfast and says, "we had cereal" and walks away!
Freagin hilarious and never forget it.

Another huge aspect in choosing this style/size/power choice is the driving experience.
You have to work for and earn your speed.
You dont just fire wall the sticks and hit the up buttons.
You are dearly rewarded for driver input.
On my Sonics, at about 45 MPH, the hulls started freeing up and you could feel it transitioning from a runabout to a performance boat.
I used to love setting the throttles for 45 and then spend the next 10 mls playing w/the trim buttons to get it just right and run 50 at the same throttle setting.
Orgasmic.

From a 35 - 45 roll w/the trim set right, it was a beast to 80 and a hell of a ride.

Another fun one was in Lake Erie in about 3' chop at a quartering sea.
It took a while to get the boat set, tabs down 20%, motors up 20% then nail the throttles.
In that scenario it would run 70 and was more fun than 80 in the calm.
Was hard on tabs though.
First Sonic had standard Bennets and I broke a ram on one of them. A long ride home.
Up dated to their Sport Tabs w/two rams on each tab and broke one of them too.

Had friends in Fla ride in my buddies twin O/B 33' Warlock cat and then in our 24' Sonic.
Same day, same water. The Intracoastal.
The friends told me that Dennis's cat looked way easier to drive cuz he just held the wheel and the boat went straight compared to watching me work the wheel, throttles, trim, tabs ... the whole time.

I said, exactly ;)

These pictures really hit home. A really good friend of mine who recently passed from cancer did a similar trek with his family back when he was a kid. I think he was in his early teens. His dad had a ~30 Owens wood boat. I know it was an impactful experience for him. I think it was a driving force for leaving the weld/fabrication work and becoming a marine mechanic. He taught me alot and I am forever thankful for it. That is one story he shared that sticks with me and lives on when I tell others... I really dig the long distance treks.. As my kids get older I want to do it but, in a go fast!
Jr.

We tried for yrs to do it w/the cruisers but couldnt put the logistics together.
500 mls each way at 15 - 20 mph??
My parents always took 3 wks to do it and that wasnt always enough.

My dads name was Vernon (smoking the pipe) and we're going to attempt a similar trip and call it the Vern Tour.

We'll tow to Port Huron on the SW corner of Lake Huron, hope for good weather/water and head up the west shore line of the lake.
Stopping at Goderich, Tobermory, Kilarney and then into Georgian Bay.

We'll target 40 - 45 mph cruising speeds which should give us 2 - 4 hr legs between stops.
Of course the biggest variable will be the weather/lake.

Have wanted to do this trip for 30 yrs, and failed.
We shall see.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4da40afb4f.jpg
Mocked up the steering today w/the new tie bar.

"A couple off a 39' Searay anchored beside us walked by as I had the lid off a pot of potatoes/onions/peppers while I was stirring it on my $18 propane grill, beside the eggs, sausage and toast.
The guy stops and looks/smells the breakfast, looks at our tiny ass boat, looks at his boat, looks at his wife, looks back at my cooking breakfast and says, "we had cereal" and walks away!"

I will never forget this story Gary, and I can't wait to re-tell it, over and over again, to boating friends in the future.

As far as Your recommendation of "a virgin, late '80's/early '90's 25' Convincor GTX w/a Bravo one and a warmed over 454/502. Timeless style and huge bang for the buck.", I tend to agree. I really like those to after checking them out now. I also like the 1980's 2800SX boats with their outboards. However, they do have a little bit of that Sonic 24 taller front deck look you mentioned, and I find that the room is slightly lacking for a 28 footer in those, despite outboards. Very excited following your thread. Cheers, Lars.

A couple of photos of 2800SX twin OB and two 1992 Convinsor 251 GTX. Not sure while there are some detail differences between the two 1992 251's, but then I'm just now checking out classic Checkmate boats thanks to you. Didn't realize how many boat models in diffrent sizes they had in the 1980's and 1990's.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...05b7e2f41b.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...034a4cb965.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b530664de7.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3f420a9eba.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c9a11ef7eb.jpg

Lars, I like the older 28's a lot too. But the O/B's also w/no sun lounge.
On the differences between models, my opinion is the company was small enough that they would build you what you want, regardless of what their catalog showed.

I think on the smaller cuddy interest that I have, I can trace back to my dad.
When he came home from WW II he chose boating as an activity for our family as it was the only thing he could afford for all of us.
5 kids w/normally 2 w/them on the boat.

We had an 18' plywood, trailerable, day cruiser. It had twin 25 HP Evinrudes of early/mid '50's vintage. One w/electric start, one w/o.
As a kid, that was the first boat that felt safe, and was home for the weekends for the four of us.

I built my first hydroplane when I was 13 and I was always fascinated w/the plans for the O/B powered pocket cruisers from the 40's/50's, aimed towards those returning veterans and families.
Since then I've had more cuddy cabins than anyone Ive even heard of.
My mind works that I look at them always, as in required power. O/Bs of course.
21/22' or less can be single. Bigger needs twins.
I think 30' is about max for twins. (changing w/todays new motors)

Ive played w/cruisers too but in my mind there is a sliding scale as to bang for the buck.
After several, recent cruisers, Ive reminded myself that I dont enjoy sitting at dock or being at the same place over and over.
So,re- enter trailer boating.
Yrs ago I thought it was time to step up and switch to I/Os and buy a bigger boat buy coming from O/B's, w/their space advantage I was at a min of 30' and then not really gaining anything other than the increased maint of I/Os.
So no net gain.

That put me to 35'+ which then required a new tow vehicle which I wasnt willing to do.
So then I broke it down as to what we do w/our boats and realized we were doing everything we wanted to, where we wanted to and it was easy and fairly painless.

I see/watch the guys w/the bigger boats (and trucks) and now realize, thats just not me.
Plus, how fast would I have to make a 35'+ twin I/O to feel as fast as 80 mph twin O/B 24/25??

Heres a link to a story I did about our first trip on our second twin O/B 24' Sonic while we lived in Fla.
Spent 5 days on it in the Keys. Totally self supported.
Was a huge test for the wife to see if she could deal w/no curling iron, blow dryer, enclosed head, shower, etc.
Luckily she passed w/flying colors!
https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...-keys-%3B.html

Unfortunately most of the pixs are gone now due to photobucket and I dont know how to re-insert the pixs.

I talk to lots of guys who say their wife wont do that.
My response is, its normally the guys fault.
IMO, for it to work, especially starting out, you have to do everything.
You have to be ready for everything shes going to ask for or that will likely be your only shot.
I mean cooking a real meal, not cold meat sandwiches.
Ive done steak, chicken, bratwurst etc, on my $18 grill.

Make the bed, put up the bimini before everythings covered w/dew, etc, etc.

I know where were going, what the conditions will be like, i.e. a dock w/electric, or at anchor off a beach. Two totally different things.
I tell my friends if you do a night in the beach, right, you will be rewarded handsomely ;)
Dinner on the beach, sunset, bon fire, shooting stars, then dinghy back to the boat.
Done right, she will think youre a rock star.

You need a REAL anchor, w/chain. I always carry a second too. This keeps the boat from swinging when backed into the beach.

Ive always wanted to start a company building cuddy cabins.
IMO its never been done right.
Look at all the ones where you have to crawl in the cabins on all 4's.
Including my 25' and the 28' Checkmates. Stupidist thing Ive ever seen and evidence they were designed by people that never weekended on one.

W/the new motors you could now build/sell a 25' w/a single O/B that would run mid 60's, be bullet proof, storage for four, tow it behind a mini van (eliminating need/expense/storage for a single purpose tow pig) and write off the interest as a second home. (assuming that law is still in effect)
Now you have dad AND mom AND the kids wanting the boat compared to a traditional go fast where theyre just being nice to dad.
Now how many weekends could you get away with????
Annnnddd you actually stay on the boat Vs tying it behind the hotel youre staying in. That makes no sense to me.

I screwed up when Checkmate was for sale 10 or so yrs ago. I should have bought them.

Like Checkmate in general was/is under appreciated, I think the cuddy cabin market has been under played for the last 30 yrs and is still ripe for the picking.

I even have the video loop in my head for our booth at the boat show ;)

Weekends and longer vacations on Scandinavian boats.
 

With tens of thousands of islands in our Scandinavian archipelagos, boating is the number one leisure activity. Just in Sweden, there are an estimated 3 million boats for 10 million Swedes. Our typical boating conditions, including the weather sea conditions, are almost identical to Your Great Lakes. The factors that always limited the size of the boats were the cost of the motors, but even more so the double, and at times, even triple the fuel prizes of the ones in The U.S. Most Scandinavians are not in need of a boat that cruises more than 35 mph and tops out at 55, since the navigating is truly difficult in waterways where there are underwater rocks lurking every 300 yards in most places.

Below are three popular Scandinavian boats, that the typical working-class couple, with a kid or two, would be out vacationing in during the 1970s and up 'till about 15 years ago. Rarely did they have big outboards, but usually ran single or twin Volvo 4- and 6-cylinder I/O's. After that point in time, the upper middle class bought 35' plus diesel powerboats and sailboats, and the well to do working class stuck to the nicest of these older boats, but spent more time in their cabin homes and the day-cruisers' function became to provide day trip joyrides. However, the cabin homes in the archipelagos are now out of range price wise for all, but the most wealthy, so new sailboats up to 35' and new day-cruisers are back in fashion, but with one or two big outboards. The problem for my generation boaters is that we can't stomach the new design language of these new practical day-cruisers, but the 30-40-year-olds, that are the buyers, have no idea what a Bertram, Formula, Donzi or Chris-Craft from the '60s looked like, but those were iconic designs that Scandinavian designers 40-50 years ago draw inspiration from and then also made boats that had some sporty flair to them, not just practicality.

Scandinavians don't trailer their boats since it would take a lifetime, for most folks, just exploring the local coastline's thousands of islands. That gives them the option of making a slightly beamier boat, but due to pretty choppy waters at times, they need 20 degrees plus deadrise, decent fuel economy and therefore most sub-30-foot sporty day-cruisers thankfully have less than an 8'6"-foot beam, and usually closer to 8 feet. I'm posting two videos of the latest in practical Scandinavian day-cruiser design, and though I love the practical features of the boats, I believe I'm getting old 'cause the designs are way too cutting edge for me, frankly in my not so humble opinion, ugly as sin. I certainly agree with You Gary that the sporty, but still practical day-cruiser market has been neglected in The U.S., so I'm sad You weren't ready to buy Checkmate when the opportunity was there. However, I believe that with today's materials you could easily have a manufacturer custom make you one from an existing hull mold you desire and then market the one-off and get a market response that leads to multiple custom orders to possibly start with. Worst case You get the satisfaction of having Your 'Grandmaster 27 Cuddy' come into fruition. :D

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...33217374b1.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f924768b80.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4d5538307b.jpg

Latest 29 footer from Finland.



Latest 24 footer from Norway.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...324257d944.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...40a895081b.jpg
Very cool Lars.
Im always interested to see what boats are popular in other countries/bodies of water.
Normally appears that most of you non-yankees are forced to deal w/rougher water conditions, shorter seasons, fewer ramps, and as you also state, more difficult navigation.

Always reminds me of how lucky we are here.

I like the boat owners that have figured out how to get the most of what they have.
Doesnt have to be big, new ('er), fast, fancy etc, etc.

I qualify it as "fun per dollar".

Couple of cool examples:

Was a group of young guys in an old neighborhood of mine that pooled their money for a ski boat. In a low rent district.
They came up w/a 17' glass O/B w/an old 85 hp V-4 OMC on it.
They were wake/knee boarders so they built a tower for the boat from alum angle they bought at the local big box store.
They towed it behind a beater, S-10 pickup truck.
I bet they didnt have $2K in everything.

One morning on my way to work, theyre loading up and I stopped to compliment them on their rig they put together..
There was maybe 5 guys there, and they were all in shock.
Because I took the time to compliment them and that I got what they were doing.

Another one:

When I had my first Sonic, and was single......, I took it to/across Lake Erie every weekend I could afford it.
When I didnt have the $$$$$ Id hit one of our many, small, inland lakes and spend the weekend on the boat/there.
Came out of one of the waterfront eateries after breakfast on one of those weekends to find a virgin 22'/24' Starcraft (aluminum) cruiser w/a single 4 cyl I/O tied up in front of my Sonic.
As story above, when I complimented them on their boat, and knowing what it was, they were shocked.
Said I was the first person to ever do that.

The subject then changed to them wishing they had a better boat to deal with Lake Eries chop for fishing.
I told them of my trips in my 19' cuddy and the tricks/secrets to getting away w/it.
I carry a chart of Erie in my boats and pulled the one from the Sonic to show them the hazards to navigation.
Again, they were blown away.
After a 15 min BS session, I shook their hands and told them to keep the chart. You can guess the reaction.
A 22/24' Starcraft. Who knew ;)

This was my first/favorite cuddy cabin.
A 19' Glastron Carlson.
Found it burned out, in a field behind a dealer and was love at first site ;)
I restored it, my parents made the interior and I found a 235 Evinrude, totaled in a different fire.

Would run 77 w/the 235 and 80 w/the GT 200 I replaced it with.
But what made the boat was the size of the cuddy/bed. It would sleep 4 adults w/o touching each other!
A bigger bed than in the 32' cruiser that came later.

Funny story about that boat:

Had 4 of us aboard one weekend and were at Pelee Island in the Canadian waters of Erie and got weathered in there.
One night it poured rain all night long!
That taught me that w/4 of us in the cuddy, our weight lifted the transom enough that the rain water was running forward, away from the float switch on the bilge pump so the bilge pump wasnt working!
Found this out when getting up to pee and putting my feet in 6" of water on the floor of the cuddy!

The water was running under the cabin door and flooding the boat!

So every 1/2 hr for the rest of the night, Id go out in the pouring rain, in my underwear and sit on the motor and watch the water run out of the cabin and activate the bilge pump :)

Was an epic weekend!

130 mph speeds must have killed it?
 

Very sad news!
I really feel for All the people 'down there' who's enjoyed this epic race for such a long time. Wish they would have been able to continue, maybe with some restrictions on the power of the boats. Water skiing 130 mph on a winding river is really on the edge! In our Catalina Ski Race, Long Beach, California, the single outboard class, (Formula II Outboard), is nowadays very popular. Gives the regular gals & guys a shot at running on their own term$. Just watched this short video a couple of months ago. May they be able to bring the race back.

Beautiful boats guys..

Isle of Mann would be bad ass,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the video's you see now are just NUTS.

The majority of the guys on here are our age. I used to think most of the folks on here were younger until I started meeting them in person, that's when I realized most of you old farts are around my age.:ernaehrung004:

Looking good brother!!!!

Headway..............................

Heres some shots.

The bracket cleaned up and prepped for mock up.

Installed for mock up.
Glass work is not done yet but figured hanging a 1000lbs on it would be a good test of my design.
Ill gel it when done.

Next test is to fill the new fuel tank w/water and tow it to the local pond and see how it floats at rest w/all the changes and to determine where the weight goes.https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4b7e4430e2.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e556acc703.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...492423a6c9.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...833ebca26e.jpg

Thats what wax crayons are for ;)

Antifouling??????
Not :)

Looking good man! Glad to see one of us is at least making progress. Got the printer up by the way, and have laminate on the way when your ready for decals :)

How many pounds of "lift" (flotation) do you think the bracket will provide?

I was pretty sure you'd already calculated it, but I was just curious. I would think that's pretty close.

Please excuse my ignorance, but how does the bracket provide lift? Is it from the surface area when the boat is not on plain? And how do you keep it from filling with water without making a sealed box?