Water in fuel issue...Opinions?
 

OK, this will be a long one. We've had our current boat for a little over 4 and a half years. Great boat.....but I've had a issue with it since the day I got it and I simply just can't figure it out. I get water in my fuel tank...
Before I go on, I've owned boats since 1982 and have generally worked on them myself, with the exception of internal engine work. I've also researched the chit out of this subject. I know all of the things that are out there in GoogleLand about the causes and fixes, none of them worked. Replaced the O-Rings on the fuel fills, replaced the gasket on the fuel sender on top of the tank, made sure that there is a loop in the vent hoses, checked for leaks....none of them are the issue. I've had the water tested and it is fresh water. (Wanna know how to piss off the guys at the pool place?) :D There has NEVER been a drop of fuel in the bilge. The ONLY possibility that it can be is condensation....and, according to all of the experts on the internet, there is no such thing. It's impossible for it to happen!!!

The boat was a trade-in :rolleyes: and the guy who traded it in had just finished "re-doing" the whole boat. Maybe it was stored inside and they never knew of the issue? I don't know and really don't care. It's a used boat, it surveyed good and I bought it. I'm not one to blame chit on others, I just fix it...or try to. :D The first time that it happened was a few weeks after I got the boat. We left the dock and the boat cut out about 50 yards from our dock. A friend towed me back. I thought that I had gotten bad fuel. Called a guy, he came out and pumped the water out of the tank and showed me the plug at the back of the tank. (see picture) He told me to go buy some clear hose, a primer bulb and put a coat hanger in the bottom part of the hose (See picture, it's like a McGyver thing) :D

I've gotten into the habit of checking the fuel every time before going out... It takes 5 minutes to do, not a big deal, but it's a pain in the azz. The boat is stored on a lift, under a canopy and my lawn irrigation sprinklers do not spray water onto the boat when the are on. (Told ya that I've checked everything) LOL
I use my bulb and hose apparatus and get the water out, let it settle and then pour the fuel part back into the tank. I've got three pictures below of the last three times that I've pumped it out. All one week apart, it's pretty much the same amount of water each time. It hasn't rained in the last three weeks, so it's certainly not rain water getting in there!!
I've owned over a dozen boats through the years and been around boats of friends and have never seen this issue. There is definitely a problem, but WTF is it? One thing that I have noticed is that if I put gas station 10% ethanol fuel in it, it's a little more water, but I haven't done that in over a year. The three photos of the water/fuel in the clear plastic jug is all REC 90 fuel from a marina with new tanks.

Anyone seen this before? Why is it happening to this boat and no others????https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c0849c8d55.jpg

Week1-two weeks from previous pumping.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b85be8378b.jpg

Week2
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...884b6c5097.jpg

week3..today
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...367749b642.jpg

Chit looks like egg drop soup! LOL
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...7aa82faad0.jpg

Top of the rear of fuel tank/ access point
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9f7de28b2e.jpg

McGyver apparatus
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...037884f707.jpg

Where she lives...

I should add that it's a single 240 gallon tank. Two fills and two vents....

I would start off by capping the fill as usual, mix a soapy bucket of Dawn and water (more soap the better) then grab a shop vac. Put shop vac hose on pressure side of vac and put some pressure in the tank vent on side of boat. Start dumping soap over all those tank fittings and fill cap to see if bubbles arise or maybe you'll be able to hear hissing/air coming from somewhere. Quick note though... tank vent hoses usually hold a little fuel so be prepared for some spit back from the vent. I know, sounds crazy but...

Craig, are you getting Ethanol laced fuel or straight Gasoline?
If so, are you treating it?

It can only be one thing....................Sabotage........Fountain owner :grinser010:

Was typing as you sent more info. Will have to cap one of the vents to try this obviously.

Read the post... comprehension is most important!!!!! LOL

Are there any fresh water tanks on board.

Vents are on the side of the boat. It's not getting in there, because, as I said above....it's fresh water in the tank, we boat in salt water...

Yes, there is a fresh water tank onboard....but that has nothing to do with the fuel tank. ;)

agreed on putting pressure to tank.
total pain, but the the vents and fills need to be blocked off, the pick ups too.
1 vent hose w/ a 5/8 T fitting installed w/ a ball valve so the compressor and a gauge can be installed.

turn the compressor to 5 psi, pressurize it and see what you have in the morning, if it's holding pressure,
start hooking stuff up 1 at a time until there is loss of pressure.

looks like the floor is screwed down, hope it doesn't come to that

nice place and boat, what year is it.

show me your fuel fill and with the cap off and fuel Vent(s) if they are not incorp in your fuel fill.

If you have the combo fuel fill / fuel vent then I would bet its coming in from there rain water and or boat washing.

Important you need to get all the water out of the gas tank. Raise the front and shake the boat up while sucking gas out. I know its a lot of work and gas.

keep in mind that the combo fuel fills with built in fuel vents - the vent is above the seal in the fuel fill. Water still leaks in thru the vent. Once again, I am talking about the combo fuel fill / fuel vent built in.

I have fixed many and I mean many of this style that gets a ton of water in the gas tank. Larson boats was one of the worst because they mount alot of their fuel fills / fuel vent combos exactly horizontal making it very easy for water to seep in the fuel vent then down into the tank.

The fix for these was a seperate fuel vent relocated in a more so called dryer area on the hull and using a non vented fuel fill. Prob did at least 100 of these on Larson boats alone not counting other brands..

Was on phone, and missed that paragraph.

Some things I've learned (from the "experts" here online, and some IME; often the hard way):

1) Nearly every mechanic I've asked in the marine industry has stated that it is not good to mix Ethanol fuel, and non-Ethanol fuel; that it degrades the quality of whatever you have in the tank, and the chemical compositions/bonds break down.
2) Ethanol is like a sponge, so any Ethanol in the tank WILL absorb water directly from the humid air, unless it's treated to prevent such.
3) I left my AT in Florida for a few months, years back, with Ethanol fuel in it (albeit it was NOT supposed to have been Ethanol fuel), untreated. Upon first fire up, I found out the hard way that the fuel had absorbed ALL of the Florida humidity; and ruined 4 filters/separators (literally corroded them to pieces inside) AND destroyed my fuel pumps, all due to that crap. That was an expensive lesson.
4) If possible, you may want to drain the tanks, have them vacuumed, and start fresh. This would be a good time to do a pressure check as well.
5) Star-Tron is far and away the best fuel treatment I've found, and you can buy the hi-po bottle which treats 128 gallons for about $9 bucks at WalMart. (Every other retailer I've seen sells the lo-po bottle that only treats 60 gallons, even though they are roughly the same size.)

I see now your fuel vent(s) are on the side of the boat is that correct ? I agree seal what is needed and pressure test the gas tank.

fuel water seperators filters have been on boats way before E 10 was ever at the gas pumps, with that said a known issue that water can enter the fuel / gas tanks.

Also would look at testing your gas that you buy before you even put it in your tank again. Do you ever buy marina gas ? I would test for water after you buy it no matter where it comes from.

OK, we use the chit out of this boat. I run at least 150-200 gallons of fuel a month through it. Haven't put any ethanol gas in there for at least a year...so it's all gone. Round flush mount deck fills and separate vents. I have replaced O-Rings...not the issue. Standby, will walk out back and snap a photo...

Boat is a 1999 Cigarette Café Open. We live in Cape Coral, FL

If the boat has aluminum tanks, both gas and water, then I would look at them. Fresh water will eat thru the aluminum and with water in the tank, then water will eat thru it also. That's my best guess at this point

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...252b96ce80.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...97cc884db5.jpg
OK, I buy my fuel at a marina a mile from my house. They have new tanks and I'm 100% sure that it's good fuel. I've gone as far as checking the tank for water just after getting fuel. The water that gets in there is happening under my canopy and while it's on the lift. This has been 100% verified. I can check it, let it sit for a few days with perfect weather, not wash it and there is a pint of water in there. The only two possibilities are that it is sucking humid air through the vents or it's condensation from temperature change. Granted, a pint of water in a 240 gallon tank isn't that much, but it's in there!!

Photos of fuel fill and vent.......The vent hoses go up for about 6-7 inches before they go down.

If the tank had a hole in it, wouldn't it leak fuel into the bilge? Never a drop in there...weird issue!!

Can you replace the vent hoses to put a loop in them so there is a fuel "trap"?

Correct. As I said in the above post. This water is getting in there while the boat is on the lift, under the canopy. It's not from washing the boat and it doesn't get in there when I wash the boat. Why is this one boat getting it and no one else's is? Like I said, weird!!

have the water tested for chlorine

AS I said in a previous post, the vent hoses run upwards for 6-7 inches before they go down towards the tank...

wow! thats an unusual problem for sure!!! good luck finding it!

process of elimination testing. you can test the fuel fill and its cap - unhook the fuel fill hose line at the gas tank, cap that gas tank portion off so nothing falls in. Next Stick the fuel fill hose -- still connected to the fuel fill - in a bucket or clear jar, then check the bucket or jar as many times needed daily to see if water and or condensation is coming in from there.

You can do the same for the fuel vent line - unhook it - fine mess screen off with a small cut rubber line at your fuel vent however at the gas tank side. Stick the rubber fuel vent line - still hooked at the fuel vent in a bucket or clear jar and watch daily to see if condensations forms in the bucket and or water in the bucket or bottle

possible might need a week of testing using these methods to see what happens and might need it to rain as well. You want to simulate the conditions per your exact routines and store the boat.

There is various ways to test the gas tank as well.

I hope it isn't a pissed off neighbor that doesn't like your landscaping procedure as what occurred on national news.

Have you seen every inch of vent line/ fuel fill line? i'm wondering if a previous owner y'd into one to drain something else.
a boroscope would be useful for this. I bought a cheap one that plugs into my phone on amazon, it works well for finding stuff in the bilge etc.

they come in different diameters and capabilities.

Agree is weird, but appears to be the only other place where water could come from.

Not knowing the full layout of your Cig, most boats have a wall separating the tank from the bilge. My water tank had pin holes and replaced, then years later replaced the fuel tank when chasing another issue. Tank was in bad shape but not yet had any holes in it.

This is a long shot, but does the fuel tank share a common wall with the water tank?

Where is the fresh water tank? A check would be drain the fresh water tank and see if it makes any difference.

^^^^^^ pull boat out run engine with water hose hooked up and using fresh gas in your tank knowing there is no water in there to begin with. Like I said process of elimination. Rule out sides of the boat and and sides of the engine where water is not coming in 4 sure.

Prob a good idea to list what engines this app has and are they 100 percent stock or not ?

I would also take the boat out in the water using a remote fuel tank supply and see if that remote gas tank gets water in it.

My guess is the horizontal mounted fuel fill. And that is easy to test like I mentioned in the past post. Keep in mind it might seal 100 percent depending on air temp and then might not seal with temp changes. The same goes for the vent line and condensation building there.

Is it possible certain waves showering itself thru the fuel vent when running thru out on the waterways ?