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Old 11-01-2002, 01:14 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
this statement said nothing about a MAGNETIC gap,
Well, I apologize...it would seem that the "speaker police" are in full effect...although I did not specify a magnetic gap...I assumed you knew what I meant.

Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
In Havasu's later post, he clearly stated that a speaker will exceed its thermal limits (fail) sooner when fed a sine wave at "x" watts than when fed music. It will also fail sooner when fed a square wave at "x" watts than when fed a sine wave.

To me this is the same thing as saying that you can blow a speaker through distortion with an amp rated at less than the max wattage of the speaker (which is usually rated with a musical signal at a RMS wattage value).
But is it the distortion, or the watts that blow the speaker. My point is that the signal doesn't matter...watts are what kills a speaker. I know it's tied together in clipping (like my earlier post), but my point was that not all distortion will kill a speaker, but too many watts will every time...

Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
II STILL say that a 100 watt speaker can be blown (through voicecoil overheating) with a 50 watt amp driven well into distortion.
Maybe. But, will the voice coil overheat due to the distortion, or the 200% output of the amp in watts from the square wave? They are tied together, but is it the actual movement of the voice coil through the wave, or the over excursion from too many watts?

I'm asking your opinion...no flaming.

OK, here's another question for you...let's say you have a 100 watt speaker. Now, if you feed it 150 actual watts of a clean signal...will it melt? How about 150 watts from a distorted signal?

Now, take the same speaker (a new one), and feed it 50 watts of a clean signal...will it melt? How 50 watts from a distorted signal?

No flames, just your opinion.

I'm giving up on asking apache77's opinion, because it's clear to me that he knows all, yet doesn't tell (unless he can flame someone)...

Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
I STILL say the same 100 watt speaker can be safely driven to a 100 watt level with a big fat clean 500 watt amp and the whole shebang will sit there and play happily for a long long time. I still say this will be true BECAUSE the big fat clean amp is sending a clean unclipped waveform to the speaker and that the speaker can faithfully reproduce this waveform without "stumbling" on itself and choking on spikes in the magnetic field that allow too much current to pass, creating heat.
I am not a speaker engineer...so voice coil capability and heat generation due to "stumbling" is beyond me...

However, I never said a "fat clean signal" wasn't the way to go, I just said no one should blow speakers from too little power...I think this whole debate started when someone said a clipped signal could "weld a voice coil"...and I'm pretty sure that can't happen.

I do remember when I was a kid, I used to crank up my cheap equipment , and that Kraco and Pioneer stuff lasted for years of distortion and clipping...through head units and those cheap Audiovox amps.

Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
If I am wrong, I will stupidly and happily continue in my incorrect belief like a moron.
Well I am a moron...anything worse than a moron, is a moron in denial...I'm not in denial...hopefully I've taken the first step toward recovery from moronism...

I think we'll have to agree to disagree...I still contend that a distorted signal can be reproduced, as long as the wattage isn't exceeded.
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:18 AM
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I was just having fun, I do not mean to ruffle anyones feathers, but my first post on this subject was to make sure no one was missled. when I started in audio people told me alot of stuff and I believed it and it was wrong which cost me alot of money. these posts were a little more techincal than anyone would ever need to know, but I have just been trying to correct anything on this forum that i see wrong that has to do with audio. it is something that I know alot about and just try to help to make sure people do not get led wrong.
 
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:58 AM
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I'm certainly happy to have
1) learned some new stuff
2) heard some new viewpoints
3) been steered to examine some new ideas in great detail

With that said, I tend to avoid running a system into audible distortion for the simple reason that I don't like the way it sounds. Whether or not a component in my system will fail from distortion and/or the specific method of failure is probably a moot point.

I've certainly blown more amplifiers than I have speakers. Cheap amps are cheap. Not long for this world. I remember paying good money for a Concord amp years ago to replace the Sparkomatic amp I had smoked. It lasted a month before it went south (into a regular set of 4-ohm JBLs). Replaced it with a "Fields & Smith" and it lasted forever (the amp still does duty in my "Drive in Movie" package that I use on my flatbed truck in the summers.

Still wondering who makes a good sounding set of moisture resistant high-efficiency speakers at the best value...
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Old 11-01-2002, 12:05 PM
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Mcollinstn: have you looked into memphis speakers they are built by JL "I think, don't remember" but anyway they are cheap but hold up and sound awsome I have a component set and two 12" subs single voice coil and they hit 146 in a sealed box with only a 300watt PPI amp. regardless of volume though the quality of the sound is more than I ever expected from such an inexpensive speaker. mousture problems? haven't had any yet?? just my $.02
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:10 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by apache77
[B]quote(A voice coil is an electromagnet, right? )

answer= no actually it does not use magnitism like people think, most people think is does the north south pole thing but they actually use what is called the right hand rule of electron flow. which i do not have time to explain, but it is not magnitism.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


umm... apache77,
the right hand rule is and does explain electromagnetism in fact it is called the right hand rule of electromagnetism. i'm an electrical engineer, have been for someth'n like 15 years. i realize it's been a while sense i was in school, but i'm certain electrons still behave the same way. i have one of my text books open now, it even has a chapter called electromagnetism and the right hand rule.

if electrons move thru a conductor it will produce what's called lines of flux "a magnetic field" perpendicular to the conductor. this is the same in any electrical motor, the terms may change i.e. stator, armature, voice coil, ext. but it always does the same thing, the same way, every time.

a generator uses the exact same principles only in reverse. the current is induced into the conductor by moving magnets perpendicular to the conductor. the right hand rule tells, either, which way the current will flow or which way the magnets will be deflected. that's it. the right hand rule doesn't mean any thing else. at least that i've ever heard of. but if you get time maybe you can explain your hypothesis in depth.

http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~phy3054/mag...e/Welcome.html

Last edited by dean campbell; 11-01-2002 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 11-04-2002, 11:12 AM
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apache77,
didn’t mean for it to sound like i was busting your chops in my post, just offering my point of view.

it was good talking to you on the phone, i hope you didn’t think i was being rude, some times it’s a madhouse here at work, had people shoving things onto my desk and making hand motions.

how about some pics of your boat at wfo, i want to see some!
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