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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660151)
Doesn't look like we are going to come to terms on my trade in unfortunately...I understand they have to make money but considering I just dumped 10k into my Nordic which I knew I would take a hit on that part but an additional 10k hit on top of what I owe I don't think I'm willing to accept....sucks :(
I would call WIA insurance and see what they can do to help you 816-808-8339 or Devin at Wozencraft 949-254-4555 |
hahaha I was wondering if you were going to see this...trust me I hope we aren't done yet!! gonna see what magic I can work out on my end....maybe by then you'll grace me with a little higher number lol...just kidding with you...trust me I understand where you're at on it!!
As a side note...anybody in the market...CALL ED!!! great guy and is doing all he can for me to make this deal!! |
No offense to anyone on this thread...but trade-ins very rarely make sense financially. To me it’s a convenience factor...see a good deal, wanna dump the boat and don’t care about losing a few dollars along the way. If you are surprised by the number...you shouldn’t be. In the end dealers take the risk. Right, wrong, or indifferent. Wanna get decent money for your boat...sell it privately. then again, I’m not saying anything people don’t already know... |
Yes I know that...but to me 11k is not just a “little along the way” I get what you’re saying and I already mentioned that earlier in the thread...I get that their offer was lower than I could sell it for outright but I wasn’t expecting that low...but it is what it is...they are a business and have to make money I get that...not upset about it at all...is what it is...do I want the cig?? Yea of course or I wouldn’t be in this position...am I gonna go upside down on my trade to make it happen?? Not 11k worth...Eddie did what he could and we couldn’t get numbers to work....that’s the nature of business...it happens...I get what I think you’re saying and yes I was willing to lose some on my trade to make the deal happen but not that much...financially it just doesn’t make sense...if we can come to some kind of middle ground on the numbers to make it work then great I’m 100% all in but I have a budget to work with clearly or I would be looking at a 100,000 dollar cig and not care about the 11k but unfortunately I’m not in that kind of position....thanks for your input tho!! |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660192)
Yes I know that...but to me 11k is not just a “little along the way” I get what you’re saying and I already mentioned that earlier in the thread...I get that their offer was lower than I could sell it for outright but I wasn’t expecting that low...but it is what it is...they are a business and have to make money I get that...not upset about it at all...is what it is...do I want the cig?? Yea of course or I wouldn’t be in this position...am I gonna go upside down on my trade to make it happen?? Not 11k worth...Eddie did what he could and we couldn’t get numbers to work....that’s the nature of business...it happens...I get what I think you’re saying and yes I was willing to lose some on my trade to make the deal happen but not that much...financially it just doesn’t make sense...if we can come to some kind of middle ground on the numbers to make it work then great I’m 100% all in but I have a budget to work with clearly or I would be looking at a 100,000 dollar cig and not care about the 11k but unfortunately I’m not in that kind of position....thanks for your input tho!! I remmeber buying my top gun. Same predicament you are in. Fortunately the guy was more than fair in trade value and we settled on numbers. Good luck!!! |
I realize now my post could have been taken the wrong way...didn’t mean to sound sh!tty....sorry if it came across that way man....been working a lot lately kinda edgy hahaha |
I look at that boat and all I see is you with 50 gallon drums full of cash just pouring it in the boat.
Been there done that , still doing it. |
Hahaha meaning what?? Find a better one?? Don’t we do that with every boat lol Honestly looking for opinions...my plans would be... this winter.... clean up wiring in engine room room which is a disaster redo dash panel to white using current gauges and new switches/panels repaint all the black on the dash to white making a more modern look while keeping the timeless shape of the dash redo stereo replace all lighting with LEDS next couple years.... redo interior to better suit my tastes redo exterior with either paint or a wrap verify health of power and upsize blowers I figured this is a good base with expensive and durable mechanicals...I have looked at a few that were a little more but had less power with either bravo or trs drives which I don’t want either....realistically like I said it seems like a reasonably priced mechanical base that’s useable until I can change cosmetics....am I wrong?? Honestly asking lol clearly you you and others have been down this road and I’m honestly asking for opinions |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660050)
fair enough...I've just seen claims of 4-5 MPH out of the notch...I can do the work if I had some measurements to go off of...not a big deal was just curious more than anything...waiting for the bank and them to open to see if I can put this deal together :santa:
My buddy thinks I'm an idiot for trying to get rid of my 80+ MPH heat to go into a 70 MPH cig...I would like to boat in something more than 2's and not get the sh!t beat out of me lol anyone else have any opinions on that matter?? just for open discussion?? First, once your buddy runs 60 through true 4's he'll forget about the 80 on flat water. Second, I went from a Heat to a PowerPlay, the offshore boats are a whole different world, no comparison...not even close. The Heat is a lake boat and that's it, ok if you're running it around smaller bodies of water or lakes (which is where it's made) but if you're running Lake Michigan it's not the right boat. Have fun in the chop!! |
You will be way more than 10k upside down if you start redoing a Cig. WaY more lol
But it does have a 1 on the side :poopoo: |
Originally Posted by dsmawd350
(Post 4659982)
It's been for sale on and off . It had a purple wrap on it that matched the interior .
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MY take if it matters and all this is PERSONAL experience
The boat was listed early this year apart, was put together and apparently ran, so that's good. If the engines are 625-650 HP the boat with Konrads and right props should see 75-78, possibly 80 if the engines are 650. I bought and ran a 91 TG with 600's and Konrads saw easy 73 MPH with the wrong props, had notch (all 88 up) have one, it did porpoise a lot under 60MPH, the earlier boats 88-90 do but not as bad as the 91 up cabin and layup is a tad lighter up front, I know because I 100% went through a few boats and even cut holes to see. Needed to drag the 380 K planes to keep it settled down. The 87 Gun I own also has 600 ish HP no notch, and SSM and is 100% a different animal, does not have the porpoise at all as seen in the video JR posted, that was zero tab use at all and I never need them unless listing to one side. the tradeoff is speed, I see 70 all day long, best of 73 so far and that's al shes got with current setup, propping is right on and RPM max is right on. The boat you are looking at will need updating and will for sure add up like Dan said (ICDEDPPL) and it will be more then you think, but if you love the boat who cares, figure that money as smiles, I had tons in mistress but didn't care when it came time to move on. These boats are always work and money, especially older ones. I looked for a while, still check out deals all the time, this is a great buy between 35-38,000 maybe 40 if someone MUST have it.. the boat is worth that and more in parts even if it's wet. most Cigs are dry if kept properly and were not hacked over the years, he 2 virgin boats I had were 100% dry (mistress and current gun) the 2 parts boats I bought were re rigged and stored wrong and were wet mops, so go over it WELL, pull cabin apart and closet trim and get in there behind scenes and check some have a hole in cabin step already, some do not. The 91 Gun I bought I hoped would turn out better when I got it home and could drill holes to check, but found even more rot once I did, guys wont let you drill holes until you buy it HAHA but this being a 87 you can access front bulkhead to inspect from closets. If I was looking still this boat would be gone already to me, because to be honest it is hard to find ANY decent TG under 40,000 even under 50,000...if it runs and goes no issues or even has a few small wet spots it's not a bad buy at all, if rotted its a decent parts boat to make money... so you can't really go wrong, but you will NOT regret going into a cig. good luck!! this is my take anyway lol |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660207)
Hahaha meaning what?? Find a better one?? Don’t we do that with every boat lol Honestly looking for opinions...my plans would be... this winter.... clean up wiring in engine room room which is a disaster redo dash panel to white using current gauges and new switches/panels repaint all the black on the dash to white making a more modern look while keeping the timeless shape of the dash redo stereo replace all lighting with LEDS next couple years.... redo interior to better suit my tastes redo exterior with either paint or a wrap verify health of power and upsize blowers I figured this is a good base with expensive and durable mechanicals...I have looked at a few that were a little more but had less power with either bravo or trs drives which I don’t want either....realistically like I said it seems like a reasonably priced mechanical base that’s useable until I can change cosmetics....am I wrong?? Honestly asking lol clearly you you and others have been down this road and I’m honestly asking for opinions |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660207)
Hahaha meaning what?? Find a better one?? I could have bought like 3-4 of those with the $$ I put in an old cig. But if you need that #1 on the side well then let the pain begin. :angry-smiley-038: |
Everyone needs that 1 on the side don’t they?? Hahaha thanks for the insight everyone...I have no doubt I’ll be upside down on this boat before it hits the water in spring but like FF said if it’s dry it’s gonna be a forever boat...well maybe not forever but a damn long time that’s for sure...I think every kid growing up dreams of owning a cig and although I don’t have the money to have a 1000 boat payment on a newer nicer gun I can afford to had a 500 dollar payment and put a few grand here and there into a boat if it’s solid from the start....I see what you guys are saying for sure and trust me I understand as a simple motor refresh just turned into a 10k plus rests on my Nordic...that being said after all that put into the Nordic I can’t wait to get rid of it...I don’t think that would be the case at all with the gun...I think every dollar put into it would make me love it more....this is def number 1 on my dream boats list and honestly never thought it would be a reality to get one so I moved on to number 2 being the Nordic...like I said love the boat just hate the ride....I’m still not out on this deal yet just need to decide how much I’m willing to lose on the Nordic and how much I’m willing to pay a month to cover that loss....thanks for all the replies guys!!! |
I do have a question dan....you’ve obviously dumped loads of money into your cig as you’ve said...do you ever regret all the money you’ve put into her and just wish you would have paid more for one that was “done”?? |
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Yea that’s beautiful...if you have 90k hahaha |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4660256)
I`d find a nice 35/36 Baja with some stock power and drives and go boating .
I could have bought like 3-4 of those with the $$ I put in an old cig. But if you need that #1 on the side well then let the pain begin. :angry-smiley-038: |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660207)
Hahaha meaning what?? Find a better one?? Don’t we do that with every boat lol Honestly looking for opinions...my plans would be... this winter.... clean up wiring in engine room room which is a disaster redo dash panel to white using current gauges and new switches/panels repaint all the black on the dash to white making a more modern look while keeping the timeless shape of the dash redo stereo replace all lighting with LEDS next couple years.... redo interior to better suit my tastes redo exterior with either paint or a wrap verify health of power and upsize blowers I figured this is a good base with expensive and durable mechanicals...I have looked at a few that were a little more but had less power with either bravo or trs drives which I don’t want either....realistically like I said it seems like a reasonably priced mechanical base that’s useable until I can change cosmetics....am I wrong?? Honestly asking lol clearly you you and others have been down this road and I’m honestly asking for opinions For a boat like this I would budget/plan for the worst and the first year plans would be looking/inspecting for: dry rot, transom assemblies/gimbal bearings, drive/trim/tab/throttle cables, fuel tank, wiring, gauges, etc. I'd make sure it was sound before I put any money into cosmetics. Cosmetics are easy and don't keep you off the water. Now the cosmetics you just listed off could run around $20K (best case). Let's say the 1987 boat is sold for $35K. Lot of good boats out there for $55K that don't need near the time and effort. There is a 2000 33 Powerplay in Miami craigslist for $69K probably pick it up for that looks like it doesn't need anything, but I could be wrong. Or perhaps the 33 Apache center console on powerboatlistings for $38K if your just looking for the cheapest wave crusher. |
Looked at 33s for a bit but at the end of the day I would still want a gun |
BBYWSTY, I'm not saying this is similar to you but some of the things you're said sound familiar to what happened to a member here years ago and it still stands as something everyone wanting to buy a big power offshore boat for the first time should read. Do a search by user name Jay13. He bought a 41 Apache thinking it was something he had to have. A lot to learn from his decisions.
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I’ll check it out thanks |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660263)
I do have a question dan....you’ve obviously dumped loads of money into your cig as you’ve said...do you ever regret all the money you’ve put into her and just wish you would have paid more for one that was “done”?? I bought mine cheap $50k and now I`m up to about $200k invested (and thats with me doing 99% of the work, can`t even imagine paying someone ) and it`s worth maybe 90k. You tell someone you have a $200k into a 1986 boat they`re gonna think you fell on your head and rode the short bus to school. It snowballs quickly. Drives took a $hit month in. (boom there goes $8k) Top ends first year Motors were $hit , tons of blow by, carbs were crap, tune was crap. cylinder walls were washed down.(blowby) Milky oil etc. Transom was done before I bought it, (make sure you check that ) Gas Tanks leaked redid interior Redid cuddy, Trailer was crap. Took that down to bare metal. Convert trailer to EOH Every light , wire and tire new Drives took a dump twice ( now I have 5`s) Lost a prop. Tons of prop testing. Swim platform Headers leaked (new exhaust) Drive Guardians Had no stereo AC install Headsets 4 sets of starters Knock sensors, EGT gauges, AFRs Bottom work Anchor locker Charger , batteries Refrigerator, TV etc etc ...... But I`m very anal and can`t stand stuff that`s not right so I go above and beyond most people I think. My interior was new but it was white and I hate when stuff looks dirty (white always does) so I changed that even thou it really didn`t need it ... At the end of the day it`s a boat that`s very solid and does everything I want it to do. The memories with my family spent on it are priceless. I know every nut and bolt. If you stop thinking about resale it makes it easier:lolhit: They don`t make boats like this anymore I love the look of the flat deck. At this point I`ve solved most of the early issues so it is much more enjoyable. Since 2015 it`s been trouble free (except for drives)and Ive taken it everywhere boating and enjoyed the $hit out of it. Gets a ton of attention everywhere . I don`t plan on getting rid of it so I`ve stopped counting $$ spent but trust me the first 2 years I wanted to burn it every other weekend. If you`re not a maniac with having things perfect and can do things at a slower pace you`ll be fine maybe? I`m unable to do that. I`ve looked at a bunch of boats for sale and myself and my wife can`t find a replacement thats we like. I`d like a 50' Hustler or a Black Thunder with #6 drives but then I`m starting all over with unknown issues / buying someone elses problems. None of this probably helps... I can tell you now I regret nothing 5 years later. (expect when I see a sweet 50' Hustler for sale :D) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4f026b33cf.jpg I saw it and I was sold . |
Thanks for that Dan. Because last evening we met with the estate planner and I had to put a dollar value on the boat, dock and lake house. This was for "the plan" as they call it. I refer to it as "(Stephen doesn't get play stuff plan). Money in the for colleges, donations, caskets, churches and not a single knicker earmarched "boat or turbos". The bride remembers what we paid for I think 12 years ago so when I spit out a realistic current value, she about fell out. I can now show her this and she'll see it could've been much worse! |
Doubled |
Never...ever.....look back at boat receipts. Only look back at boating memories. Just saying. |
I have completed one major restoration on a boat that I bought new in 1991. I love the boat and attempted to fix everything that needed repair and made several major upgrades. I spent more on the re-do than the original boat. I had regrets initially but I am just fine with the boat, the money spent, and that resale will never come close to my investment. I am hopefully close to finishing my second project. I bought a low hour 29 Fountain. It needed some cosmetic work,but appeared to be sound mechanically. I started on the exterior redoing the paint from teal and pink to red white and blue. The new skins and carpet match the new boat color. There was rot in the cabin so all that had to be fixed. The old stereo was junk and a new high grade 2000 watt system was installed. The dash was redone and fitted with new Autometer gauges and Garmin chart plotter. The old windshield looked like crap next to all the new and was replaced. I was going to freshen the 525SC, but found water damage. Decided to start over with a new 540. I built the motor with forged 4340 internals ,Brodix alluminum heads, hydrolic roller cam and valve train, Fitech fuel injection, CMI sport tube headers, The increased power demanded a stronger drive. Imco SCX upper, Imco -2 SC lower with a Drive Guardian. I think that I may have everything ready by NewYears Day. Again, I Have spent way more money than I will ever recoup. But I will have just what I wanted and I plan on keeping the boat. If you have the patience to do the rebuild and the money to cover the ever increasing bills, just do it. When you get done, you will have a like new boat that is customized to your specs. Then enjoy it. Boating and prudent money management are like gas and water. Have fun while you can. |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4660318)
I`ve thought about this before.
I bought mine cheap $50k and now I`m up to about $200k invested (and thats with me doing 99% of the work, can`t even imagine paying someone ) and it`s worth maybe 90k. You tell someone you have a $200k into a 1986 boat they`re gonna think you fell on your head and rode the short bus to school. It snowballs quickly. Drives took a $hit month in. (boom there goes $8k) Top ends first year Motors were $hit , tons of blow by, carbs were crap, tune was crap. cylinder walls were washed down.(blowby) Milky oil etc. Transom was done before I bought it, (make sure you check that ) Gas Tanks leaked redid interior Redid cuddy, Trailer was crap. Took that down to bare metal. Convert trailer to EOH Every light , wire and tire new Drives took a dump twice ( now I have 5`s) Lost a prop. Tons of prop testing. Swim platform Headers leaked (new exhaust) Drive Guardians Had no stereo AC install Headsets 4 sets of starters Knock sensors, EGT gauges, AFRs Bottom work Anchor locker Charger , batteries Refrigerator, TV etc etc ...... But I`m very anal and can`t stand stuff that`s not right so I go above and beyond most people I think. My interior was new but it was white and I hate when stuff looks dirty (white always does) so I changed that even thou it really didn`t need it ... At the end of the day it`s a boat that`s very solid and does everything I want it to do. The memories with my family spent on it are priceless. I know every nut and bolt. If you stop thinking about resale it makes it easier:lolhit: They don`t make boats like this anymore I love the look of the flat deck. At this point I`ve solved most of the early issues so it is much more enjoyable. Since 2015 it`s been trouble free (except for drives)and Ive taken it everywhere boating and enjoyed the $hit out of it. Gets a ton of attention everywhere . I don`t plan on getting rid of it so I`ve stopped counting $$ spent but trust me the first 2 years I wanted to burn it every other weekend. If you`re not a maniac with having things perfect and can do things at a slower pace you`ll be fine maybe? I`m unable to do that. I`ve looked at a bunch of boats for sale and myself and my wife can`t find a replacement thats we like. I`d like a 50' Hustler or a Black Thunder with #6 drives but then I`m starting all over with unknown issues / buying someone elses problems. None of this probably helps... I can tell you now I regret nothing 5 years later. (expect when I see a sweet 50' Hustler for sale :D) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4f026b33cf.jpg I saw it and I was sold . If anyone is ever concerned about money wasted or what a boat is worth later, just skip boating... go buy a crotch rocket and save thousands lol |
Originally Posted by cigrocket
(Post 4660372)
Never...ever.....look back at boat receipts. Only look back at boating memories. Just saying. |
BBYSTWY - I don't want to be one of those guys who mentions their own boat in a thread, but if you have any interest in a Cafe that's a decent platform for an update take a look at my classified AD here on OSO. I'm only Mentioning because it's listed right at 40 which is where you were looking on the TG. I'm as honest as they come and will tell you anything you'd like to know. If you are holding out for aTG, good luck in your search!! https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...er-o73420.html Eric |
Any updates buddy!?!?! Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you yet. |
Been on the boat many times it’s a fun and great running boat. Bullet proof package with the motors/drives won’t be the first to ever pokerrun stop but it’ll make it to everyone without you having to turn a wrench. |
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 4660268)
I agree with the comments indicating it could be a money pit. Actually, they are all money pits if you consider cost when new and resale value when 10-30 years old.
For a boat like this I would budget/plan for the worst and the first year plans would be looking/inspecting for: dry rot, transom assemblies/gimbal bearings, drive/trim/tab/throttle cables, fuel tank, wiring, gauges, etc. I'd make sure it was sound before I put any money into cosmetics. Cosmetics are easy and don't keep you off the water. Now the cosmetics you just listed off could run around $20K (best case). Let's say the 1987 boat is sold for $35K. Lot of good boats out there for $55K that don't need near the time and effort. There is a 2000 33 Powerplay in Miami craigslist for $69K probably pick it up for that looks like it doesn't need anything, but I could be wrong. Or perhaps the 33 Apache center console on powerboatlistings for $38K if your just looking for the cheapest wave crusher. Parts are by the millions for that set-up. Let r eat |
Originally Posted by Interceptor
(Post 4660281)
BBYWSTY, I'm not saying this is similar to you but some of the things you're said sound familiar to what happened to a member here years ago and it still stands as something everyone wanting to buy a big power offshore boat for the first time should read. Do a search by user name Jay13. He bought a 41 Apache thinking it was something he had to have. A lot to learn from his decisions.
Jay was about as enthusiastic as you could get when it came to Apaches! He bought a running boat and within a couple of trips he had a hurt motor. He then started on a full restoration and then moved/lost job and was never heard from again. Not sure the boat ever resurfaced. Pretty sure this was the boat: |
As much as it pains me I think i'm gonna hold on to my heat and try selling it in the spring and go from there....Like I said I don't mind losing the money on the resto on the heat but it just doesn't financially make sense to roll 11k into this new one and have a much higher payment than it needs to be...awesome deal no doubt and I wish I could make it happen but unfortunately I just don't think now is my time to get a gun.....hopefully I can find another deal when the time comes
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That sucks, the deals on guns are few and far between these days |
I am sure that boat won't last long at that price. Its a good entry price and a nice piece for entry into the 1 club. Hopefully someone on here will pick it up and make it happen.
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Originally Posted by Full Force
(Post 4660933)
That sucks, the deals on guns are few and far between these days |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4660925)
As much as it pains me I think i'm gonna hold on to my heat and try selling it in the spring and go from there....Like I said I don't mind losing the money on the resto on the heat but it just doesn't financially make sense to roll 11k into this new one and have a much higher payment than it needs to be...awesome deal no doubt and I wish I could make it happen but unfortunately I just don't think now is my time to get a gun.....hopefully I can find another deal when the time comes
You've made the right decision. Committing to any finance payment is a big decision and if you're not 100% happy about all that goes with it, say no. Educated posts on here are a reminder of the extra expenses, possible rebuilds and unforseeable expenses that you might encounter. I can't speak of how often/rarely these deals come up but it doesn't matter. If it doesn't feel right, don't commit to it. Nothing wrong with your current boat, enjoy it for now and revisit the idea of upgrading later. RR |
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