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Thanks!! at the end of the day with rolling in negative equity I would have been paying 50k and some change for the cig...is it worth it?? maybe but I feel I can get one in as good of condition or maybe even possibly better for 50k...and I think I could sell mine for far more than what they were offering which I expected as it was talked about earlier in the thread that trading in is a convenience and rarely does it work out in your favor...totally get that they are a busi
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business and have to make money...is what it is oh well
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Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4660318)
I`ve thought about this before.
I bought mine cheap $50k and now I`m up to about $200k invested (and thats with me doing 99% of the work, can`t even imagine paying someone ) and it`s worth maybe 90k. You tell someone you have a $200k into a 1986 boat they`re gonna think you fell on your head and rode the short bus to school. It snowballs quickly. Drives took a $hit month in. (boom there goes $8k) Top ends first year Motors were $hit , tons of blow by, carbs were crap, tune was crap. cylinder walls were washed down.(blowby) Milky oil etc. Transom was done before I bought it, (make sure you check that ) Gas Tanks leaked redid interior Redid cuddy, Trailer was crap. Took that down to bare metal. Convert trailer to EOH Every light , wire and tire new Drives took a dump twice ( now I have 5`s) Lost a prop. Tons of prop testing. Swim platform Headers leaked (new exhaust) Drive Guardians Had no stereo AC install Headsets 4 sets of starters Knock sensors, EGT gauges, AFRs Bottom work Anchor locker Charger , batteries Refrigerator, TV etc etc ...... But I`m very anal and can`t stand stuff that`s not right so I go above and beyond most people I think. My interior was new but it was white and I hate when stuff looks dirty (white always does) so I changed that even thou it really didn`t need it ... At the end of the day it`s a boat that`s very solid and does everything I want it to do. The memories with my family spent on it are priceless. I know every nut and bolt. If you stop thinking about resale it makes it easier:lolhit: They don`t make boats like this anymore I love the look of the flat deck. At this point I`ve solved most of the early issues so it is much more enjoyable. Since 2015 it`s been trouble free (except for drives)and Ive taken it everywhere boating and enjoyed the $hit out of it. Gets a ton of attention everywhere . I don`t plan on getting rid of it so I`ve stopped counting $$ spent but trust me the first 2 years I wanted to burn it every other weekend. If you`re not a maniac with having things perfect and can do things at a slower pace you`ll be fine maybe? I`m unable to do that. I`ve looked at a bunch of boats for sale and myself and my wife can`t find a replacement thats we like. I`d like a 50' Hustler or a Black Thunder with #6 drives but then I`m starting all over with unknown issues / buying someone elses problems. None of this probably helps... I can tell you now I regret nothing 5 years later. (expect when I see a sweet 50' Hustler for sale :D) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4f026b33cf.jpg I saw it and I was sold . agree with dan. been here done that. got a good deal then sank tuck loads into it. look up bullet rebuild, still need to do the cabin too. sometimes think I could have had the gladiator or the 38 but is what it is. the boat is nice now but the surprises that got uncovered will all ways piss me off thinking about it knowing they got covered up. |
Don't get frustrated. I waited for almost 8 years to buy what I have and then I only ran it 3 times before I tore it apart. You will find something and when it is right its right. My advice is about the same as the others on here. SURVEY, Water test, Leak down and compression. The other thing I would say is take at least 2 other people with you who know boats to look at it with you. One will undoubtedly SAY BUY it because they too will be excited and hopefully the other will be willing to point out all of the flaws so you can maybe see some things that you would have missed. I can say for one that on my last boat we overlooked a lot of things that seemed good but really were not my standards. I also made the mistake of thinking I could do the upgrades I wanted to in pieces. The reality of it was that we would have constantly been going backwards to move forward. My boat has been torn apart for 3 years now and I am not sure it will be done this year either. You should start making the payments to yourself now so you can put away more money for the next one that comes up.
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^^^^^^^ 100 % agree with iron man
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After reading this thread twice, my opinion is that you dodged a bullet.
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I`ll agree with Ironwomen, when you think you`ll just do little projects slowly over time it becomes one of those things "well I have this apart might as well...."
$150k later you`re like wait what happened here I could have bought something from this century that has stock 500hp motors and goes faster ...ooops lol :D :bong: |
Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL
(Post 4661162)
I`ll agree with Ironwomen, when you think you`ll just do little projects slowly over time it becomes one of those things "well I have this apart might as well...."
$150k later you`re like wait what happened here I could have bought something from this century that has stock 500hp motors and goes faster ...ooops lol :D :bong: |
Hahahaha yea def see what you guys are saying because I just lived it with my Nordic...and obviously this would have been on a much larger scale lol
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Originally Posted by Ironmanwb
(Post 4661112)
Don't get frustrated. I waited for almost 8 years to buy what I have and then I only ran it 3 times before I tore it apart. You will find something and when it is right its right. My advice is about the same as the others on here. SURVEY, Water test, Leak down and compression. The other thing I would say is take at least 2 other people with you who know boats to look at it with you. One will undoubtedly SAY BUY it because they too will be excited and hopefully the other will be willing to point out all of the flaws so you can maybe see some things that you would have missed. I can say for one that on my last boat we overlooked a lot of things that seemed good but really were not my standards. I also made the mistake of thinking I could do the upgrades I wanted to in pieces. The reality of it was that we would have constantly been going backwards to move forward. My boat has been torn apart for 3 years now and I am not sure it will be done this year either. You should start making the payments to yourself now so you can put away more money for the next one that comes up.
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9338387472.png https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...84bc4377f5.png https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...76dfd41d2b.png I guess what I’m trying to say is if you see things like this walk away unless your willing to deal with a lot of BS |
No matter how you look at it. Many of the Guns and Cafe's that are at a price point 1986-1995 are truly approaching 23-34 years old. You have to expect some issues with these boats at some point. Even a little use and maintained, eventually stuff just deteriorates or wears out over time. Technology has advanced. No way is someone selling a fully equipped, turn key, museum piece with low hours, new drives, updated paint, etc for 35-40k. So you have to go into the boat and treat stuff and attack with a priority list. Look at the price of a new Top Gun. 400k vs 35k. Just a thought on the subject.
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HA!! Looks like you were crawling around the bilge of my Nordic LOL
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Originally Posted by cigrocket
(Post 4661254)
No matter how you look at it. Many of the Guns and Cafe's that are at a price point 1986-1995 are truly approaching 23-34 years old. You have to expect some issues with these boats at some point. Even a little use and maintained, eventually stuff just deteriorates or wears out over time. Technology has advanced. No way is someone selling a fully equipped, turn key, museum piece with low hours, new drives, updated paint, etc for 35-40k. So you have to go into the boat and treat stuff and attack with a priority list. Look at the price of a new Top Gun. 400k vs 35k. Just a thought on the subject.
I'm mainly looking at expensive things...motors, drives, trailer, etc....to me the cosmetics or even SOME minimal rot isn't that big of a deal as long as its manageable and doesn't turn into a total gut job...which every project can go that way in a hurry trust me I know....I think you get my jist |
Originally Posted by cigrocket
(Post 4661254)
No matter how you look at it. Many of the Guns and Cafe's that are at a price point 1986-1995 are truly approaching 23-34 years old. You have to expect some issues with these boats at some point. Even a little use and maintained, eventually stuff just deteriorates or wears out over time. Technology has advanced. No way is someone selling a fully equipped, turn key, museum piece with low hours, new drives, updated paint, etc for 35-40k. So you have to go into the boat and treat stuff and attack with a priority list. Look at the price of a new Top Gun. 400k vs 35k. Just a thought on the subject.
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Right..I relate it to several cars I have done over the years...the value is the value..doesn't matter how much you've put into it there is no way you're gonna get it back...that's why if I were to buy this one for instance it would be a "forever" boat....or at least a loooong time boat
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The way I looked at it on this one in particular was...the drives and motors alone are damn near worth the asking price...so I figured hard parts alone if I was able to drive this thing untouched essentially in the mechanical department at least for say 2-3 years it would be money well spent...maybe I'm wrong but that's what I was looking at
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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4661260)
The way I looked at it on this one in particular was...the drives and motors alone are damn near worth the asking price...so I figured hard parts alone if I was able to drive this thing untouched essentially in the mechanical department at least for say 2-3 years it would be money well spent...maybe I'm wrong but that's what I was looking at
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Right...me NOT being a cash buyer...it would be a fix and enjoy no matter what it took lol
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I've also been eye balling this one for quite awhile....the TRS drives scare me a bit tho
Any idea what kind of speeds could be seen out of this if the motors are what they say they are?? Didn't know if the flat decks were any heavier/lighter, faster/slower https://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/54628 |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4661267)
I've also been eye balling this one for quite awhile....the TRS drives scare me a bit tho
Any idea what kind of speeds could be seen out of this if the motors are what they say they are?? Didn't know if the flat decks were any heavier/lighter, faster/slower https://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/54628 |
oops lol...why does it look so much different than that other gun I posted originally?? the deck looks a lot flatter which led me to think it was a flat deck....that's good news on the drives....that was kinda why I posted that...would I be better off buying something more expensive like that or cheaper and making it my own over time....of course assuming both are same condition..minimal to no sizeable rot, good trailers, "reliable" power packages etc
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Probably more working room with your trade on this boat. So it may make you feel better, and numbers might work out for you. Obviously, same things apply...check out boat in person, leakdown/compression, survey...I personally like White...I had a 1993.
By the way, its the angle of the picture, but Flat Decks were done in 1986. Layout and look were different. |
gotcha...kinda what I figured
I too love the white and in all honesty if I bought the original one it would be getting a white wrap more than likely until I painted it...love the simple look with the hawk on the front |
Originally Posted by cigrocket
(Post 4661268)
That's a Gun, not a Flat Deck. I would say those motors probably make 625HP-650HP. In the gun with TRS I would say 75MPH maybe a little more if the setup, wheels are correct. It has a Transom Notch.. If the TRS drives were done by Riggs as well as the motors, I would say this is extremely reliable. I'd much rather have TRS drives, then Bravos on a 1988 Top Gun. If you keep that horsepower you will have no problems with the drives. Parts are easy to come by despite what you might hear. Not to mention, sets of those drives often show up in the swap for decent/cheap prices. Of course you added quite a bit of money right off the Top.
Personally at 50,000+ I would buy a SSM gun... much better in my opinion, that's a lot for a TRS boat, but if its clean as it looks the rest seems done. |
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4661267)
I've also been eye balling this one for quite awhile....the TRS drives scare me a bit tho
Any idea what kind of speeds could be seen out of this if the motors are what they say they are?? Didn't know if the flat decks were any heavier/lighter, faster/slower https://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/54628 |
That's kinda my thoughts regarding the price...I feel someone is trying to get the money out of it they put in it...my budget is around 50k assuming my heat is paid off..I don't think I can find a SSM gun for 50 unless it needs a lot of work...maybe I just haven't looked in the right place but all I have found is this TRS or that Konrad boat...80k range I found a lot of bravo boats which I absolutely do NOT want
What are the options in upgrading the TRS's?? konrads obviously but can they be converted to SSM for less money assuming I buy used?? |
Looking through pics, if you tried to make that other gun that nice you would have 90,000+ into it... engines on this one have WAY better parts, if I was looking this really is not a bad buy especially around 50,000... switch to Konrad or SSm later of drives become an issue, you would be ahead more buying the all white one.
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Originally Posted by Knot 4 Me
(Post 4661278)
Happy to put a set of eyes on this for you if it is still there and you are interested.
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Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4661280)
That's kinda my thoughts regarding the price...I feel someone is trying to get the money out of it they put in it...my budget is around 50k assuming my heat is paid off..I don't think I can find a SSM gun for 50 unless it needs a lot of work...maybe I just haven't looked in the right place but all I have found is this TRS or that Konrad boat...80k range I found a lot of bravo boats which I absolutely do NOT want
What are the options in upgrading the TRS's?? konrads obviously but can they be converted to SSM for less money assuming I buy used?? If a boat has nice paint, nice interior, nice engines and parts inside them, and also headers, and more... that adds up... you can spend 50,000 easily just in parts to build them engines, to me that's what I look at, "what will it cost me to build this'? I can assure if that boat was redone by a shop and not done himself he has well over 100,000 into it and then some. |
Comes down to $$ and Value
39K vs 57K - What does the difference buy you, versus what upgrades are installed. 39K Boat...Upgraded Drives, Engine Package seems mild with Blowers. 57K Boat....Upgraded Interior, Gauges and Bezles, White Hull, NA Bulldog Power (lots of hours can be put on without much work) Resale value of Mercury Power is higher. Bulldogs had great internals, Notched Transom, White Dash, Silent Choice, Nice Swim Platform. Upgraded Bolsters,appears to be a nice Manning Trailer with polished wheels. and its been for sale for a while. Can the items in the 39K boat be done for 18K. Probably Not I don't know either of these boats, but on paper. Obviously the 57K boat has a lot of the items that need to be addressed on the 39K boat. So if you get better trade money, it would make more sense. Even if you did all the work yourself, 16-18k gets used up fast, not to mention the amount of hours, and possibly missed boating time versus enjoying boating. 2 Cents here |
I agree...and being a mechanic that's what I look for as well...only concern I have on this one is that its been on the market for awhile and I'm thinking because of the drives hanging off the back
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Just me but this is why I always worry about "refreshed motors". Never know, I would almost rather have the motors blow up during the sea trail so I can have my own built.
https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...ml#post4661276 |
I worry about that as well...what cousin bubba rebuilt them lol but it seems they have some hours after the "rebuilds" on the white one where any wrong doing would have been found...plus I think Riggs is a somewhat reputable builder...I've heard their name before with positive comments...but you never really know I guess
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well...made the call on the white one...sent a few pics of mine in...see what they say!!
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Just a heads up. Grand sport is not that far from me as well. Hope this one works out better for you. They are decent people over there I looked at boats from them in the past but got suckered into another boat caus ethe wife liked it better haha. Well needless to say money would’ve been spent better else where. Good luck with it hope the trade works out better |
Dude that white one is NICE! Spend a little more but have a way better looking boat and it looks very clean.
That`s where I bought my boat and they gave me a fair trade in value on my BAHA. bad thing is they don`t really do sea trials. |
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