Sweet 16! Lake Cumberland Poker Run Does Not Disappoint
09-15-2022, 11:43 AM
#41
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Marginmn,
I can easily agree with the first part, but the second is why I take the stance I do. I hate it when a kneejerk reaction is taken that either doesn't fix the problem or fixes a problem that wasn't. Both are the case here, despite the coincidental positive outcome to date. The boats are still running just as hard, very often together, and the bets are still being laid on the bar.
So, what's going to be the reaction when all the monster boats start going to the ThunderRun, because they can actually RUN, and stop going to the PokerRun? How long will it take for the owner/drivers to realize they can tour the lake any time them like, not have to pay the entry fee, and have just as good a time? How long will it take for the promoters to realize THEY are why the money left, and not the owner/drivers? Will it be to retool the format for the ThunderRun or concede their mistake with the PokerRun?
While I don't, in any way, want to see anybody hurt, let alone killed, and I certainly don't dismiss the tragedy of it when it happens, I have always seen it as "live by the sword, die by the sword." These guys know what they've strapped themselves into. Nobody batted an eye when Mike Fiore went ass over teakettle at LOTO, and the various other incidents that happened that year, aside from the obvious shock and grieving. Sure, they shortened the course, but then gave it a running start, specifically so the larger, faster boats could still reach the speeds they did prior. And they ARE, indeed, still running well faster than Mike was when he flipped. They didn't neuter the event in efforts to make it safer. It can be done. And I, for one, would like to see THAT effort being made.
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
I can easily agree with the first part, but the second is why I take the stance I do. I hate it when a kneejerk reaction is taken that either doesn't fix the problem or fixes a problem that wasn't. Both are the case here, despite the coincidental positive outcome to date. The boats are still running just as hard, very often together, and the bets are still being laid on the bar.
So, what's going to be the reaction when all the monster boats start going to the ThunderRun, because they can actually RUN, and stop going to the PokerRun? How long will it take for the owner/drivers to realize they can tour the lake any time them like, not have to pay the entry fee, and have just as good a time? How long will it take for the promoters to realize THEY are why the money left, and not the owner/drivers? Will it be to retool the format for the ThunderRun or concede their mistake with the PokerRun?
While I don't, in any way, want to see anybody hurt, let alone killed, and I certainly don't dismiss the tragedy of it when it happens, I have always seen it as "live by the sword, die by the sword." These guys know what they've strapped themselves into. Nobody batted an eye when Mike Fiore went ass over teakettle at LOTO, and the various other incidents that happened that year, aside from the obvious shock and grieving. Sure, they shortened the course, but then gave it a running start, specifically so the larger, faster boats could still reach the speeds they did prior. And they ARE, indeed, still running well faster than Mike was when he flipped. They didn't neuter the event in efforts to make it safer. It can be done. And I, for one, would like to see THAT effort being made.
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
Nobody batted an eye? Really?
And not sure why the Shootout is being referenced in a Poker Run thread. Two different animals.
Last edited by Knot 4 Me; 09-15-2022 at 11:47 AM.
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cheech (09-15-2022)
09-15-2022, 11:43 AM
#42
Registered
Interceptor,
That's just it. The spectator field didn't really narrow the waterway, so long as they stayed next to shore. The area most densely packed with spectators was always a fair bit down the course from StateDock, in that really long straight, where the monsters could really wring them out. It's PLENTY wide enough there for every single one of them to run as fast as they want to.
Besides... It's the spectators that bring in the big money to the promoters and CoC, not the participants. It's like the NFL or NASCAR. Everybody talks about the revenue from ticket sales, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the advertising revenue, which is US, the consumers/spectators. The PokerRun promotors have all but eliminated the spectator aspect of the event. Sure... They still pack out Harmon Creek, but they don't have to go to StateDock to do that. The lack of a schedule makes it meaningless to go to StateDock for those who want to walk the docks and check out the hardware, unless you're a paying participant at the party. That has had to have had an impact of revenue.
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
That's just it. The spectator field didn't really narrow the waterway, so long as they stayed next to shore. The area most densely packed with spectators was always a fair bit down the course from StateDock, in that really long straight, where the monsters could really wring them out. It's PLENTY wide enough there for every single one of them to run as fast as they want to.
Besides... It's the spectators that bring in the big money to the promoters and CoC, not the participants. It's like the NFL or NASCAR. Everybody talks about the revenue from ticket sales, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the advertising revenue, which is US, the consumers/spectators. The PokerRun promotors have all but eliminated the spectator aspect of the event. Sure... They still pack out Harmon Creek, but they don't have to go to StateDock to do that. The lack of a schedule makes it meaningless to go to StateDock for those who want to walk the docks and check out the hardware, unless you're a paying participant at the party. That has had to have had an impact of revenue.
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
09-15-2022, 11:53 AM
#43
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09-15-2022, 12:09 PM
#44
Registered
I'd guess a lot of people have a "been there done that" sort of attitude so they don't go. Like all the big names SkiDoc named in his post at the beginning.
Guys back then with 150 mph cats are probably in 80/90 mph center consoles with their grandkids on their home lakes.
149 registered boats the article says. Seems to be a good median number of registrations compared with all the other poker runs I read articles about. SMH
09-15-2022, 12:52 PM
#45
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iTrader: (4)
They just recovered the helicopter that crashed during the Poker Run......Helicopter recovered from Lake Cumberland 20 years after crash | News | wdrb.com
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cheech (09-15-2022)
09-15-2022, 01:06 PM
#46
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09-15-2022, 01:11 PM
#47
Registered
Let me see if I'm getting all this thread correctly?
SkiDocs original complaint was: poor food, rednecks at the dock party, the crappy boats they came in taking poker run registrants spots.
Never did mention the format or "lack of a shotgun start"! Initially anyway.
So then this thread gets filled by a "spectator" (his words) who never registers (supports) for the poker run, complaining about the lack of a shotgun start and schedule because it ruins HIS poker run experience.
Appears to blame other "spectators", State Dock, KFWL, sheriffs patrol, on and on. Hell you name it I guess?
So now you're comparing it to NFL?
NO ONE is watching this poker run on tv!
So what advertising revenue is State Dock receiving from this poker run?
It's paid for by sponsors and participants/registrants, through the registration and the houseboats they reserve.
"Big Money" 
I'm guessing you meant CoE?
How do they make money off of this?
"Spectators"?? Is State Dock selling "spectator" spots to watch this poker run?
State Dock receives no revenue with you down there drooling on these boats drinking beers out of your own cooler in your boat while you're there.
Yeah sure you and your buddies might buy a t-shirt or soda.
I'm sure that pales in comparison to the revenue from the registrants and sponsors and what they spend while there.
Most, I'd say 98%, of the drunks and dipshiits in Harmon Creek have any concern about State Dock poker run weekend.
I'm sure if you go down there in the morning or evening you can see all the boats at the docks at one time.
If you have to pay you have to pay.
WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO DO?
I'm sure you'll get your survey in the mail to give feedback.
Oh that's right you didn't register.
I vote NO boats ("spectators") allowed on the lake this weekend unless you're a registered poker run participant.
Never did mention the format or "lack of a shotgun start"! Initially anyway.
So then this thread gets filled by a "spectator" (his words) who never registers (supports) for the poker run, complaining about the lack of a shotgun start and schedule because it ruins HIS poker run experience.
Appears to blame other "spectators", State Dock, KFWL, sheriffs patrol, on and on. Hell you name it I guess?
NO ONE is watching this poker run on tv!
So what advertising revenue is State Dock receiving from this poker run?
It's paid for by sponsors and participants/registrants, through the registration and the houseboats they reserve.
I'm guessing you meant CoE?
How do they make money off of this?
"Spectators"?? Is State Dock selling "spectator" spots to watch this poker run?
State Dock receives no revenue with you down there drooling on these boats drinking beers out of your own cooler in your boat while you're there.
Yeah sure you and your buddies might buy a t-shirt or soda.
I'm sure that pales in comparison to the revenue from the registrants and sponsors and what they spend while there.
If you have to pay you have to pay.
WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO DO?
I'm sure you'll get your survey in the mail to give feedback.
Oh that's right you didn't register.
I vote NO boats ("spectators") allowed on the lake this weekend unless you're a registered poker run participant.
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20outlaw (09-15-2022)
09-15-2022, 01:24 PM
#48
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Shootout has always been a rolling start to my knowledge. They may have upped the trap speed from 30 MPH to 40 MPH but it was always a rolling start since I can remember. Though, my memory is not what it once was so...
Nobody batted an eye? Really? And not sure why the Shootout is being referenced in a Poker Run thread. Two different animals.
Nobody batted an eye? Really?
And not sure why the Shootout is being referenced in a Poker Run thread. Two different animals.Yup. I misstated that. As a side note, I'm betting most of those big cats kinda struggled to maintain the 30MPH rolling start speed limit. We all have that certain speed that our boats just won't go for longer than the transition period.
Again, I don't mean to dismiss the tragedy and/or loss, but... I was at the StateDock talking to somebody fueling an OL cat, and he mentioned that he didn't know if the company would continue building cats, as Mike had just died the weekend before at the shootout, with a certain, "Well, that sucks" kinda tone. As if that were the meaning of it all. I learned a lot about my approach to the subject of dying while pursuing your passion from Neville Longbottom in the Deathly Hollows, Pt 2: "People die every day." Not everybody gets to decide why. While Mike may have done a few things differently that day, had he only known, I'm doubting holding back on the throttle would have been one of them.
I mentioned the ShootOut as a reference to how changes can be made without making an event not the event it was intended to be. Not every solution resolves the problem, or even addresses it, for that matter, as was the case on Cumberland. Interestingly, NHRA did the same thing after Kalitta died. Shortenning the track didn't slow the cars down at all. In fact, they are running faster now than they were prior, and, to my knowledge, not a single fatal crash has occurred since. It turns out that it wasn't that last 280ft that actually caused his engine to detonate like it did. Oddly enough, it was that age old "happenstance" thing. Just like in our boats. Or any other high-performance machine, for that matter.
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
09-15-2022, 01:50 PM
#49
Registered
SkiDocs original complaint was: poor food, rednecks at the dock party, the crappy boats they came in taking poker run registrants spots.
Never did mention the format or "lack of a shotgun start"! Initially anyway.
So then this thread gets filled by a "spectator" (his words) who never registers (supports) for the poker run, complaining about the lack of a shotgun start and schedule because it ruins HIS poker run experience.
Appears to blame other "spectators", State Dock, KFWL, sheriffs patrol, on and on. Hell you name it I guess?
So now you're comparing it to NFL?
NO ONE is watching this poker run on tv!
So what advertising revenue is State Dock receiving from this poker run?
It's paid for by sponsors and participants/registrants, through the registration and the houseboats they reserve.
"Big Money"
I'm guessing you meant CoE?
How do they make money off of this?
"Spectators"?? Is State Dock selling "spectator" spots to watch this poker run?
State Dock receives no revenue with you down there drooling on these boats drinking beers out of your own cooler in your boat while you're there.
Yeah sure you and your buddies might buy a t-shirt or soda.
I'm sure that pales in comparison to the revenue from the registrants and sponsors and what they spend while there.
Most, I'd say 98%, of the drunks and dipshiits in Harmon Creek have any concern about State Dock poker run weekend.
I'm sure if you go down there in the morning or evening you can see all the boats at the docks at one time.
If you have to pay you have to pay.
WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO DO?
I'm sure you'll get your survey in the mail to give feedback.
Oh that's right you didn't register.
I vote NO boats ("spectators") allowed on the lake this weekend unless you're a registered poker run participant.
Never did mention the format or "lack of a shotgun start"! Initially anyway.
So then this thread gets filled by a "spectator" (his words) who never registers (supports) for the poker run, complaining about the lack of a shotgun start and schedule because it ruins HIS poker run experience.
Appears to blame other "spectators", State Dock, KFWL, sheriffs patrol, on and on. Hell you name it I guess?
So now you're comparing it to NFL?
NO ONE is watching this poker run on tv!
So what advertising revenue is State Dock receiving from this poker run?
It's paid for by sponsors and participants/registrants, through the registration and the houseboats they reserve.
"Big Money"
I'm guessing you meant CoE?
How do they make money off of this?
"Spectators"?? Is State Dock selling "spectator" spots to watch this poker run?
State Dock receives no revenue with you down there drooling on these boats drinking beers out of your own cooler in your boat while you're there.
Yeah sure you and your buddies might buy a t-shirt or soda.
I'm sure that pales in comparison to the revenue from the registrants and sponsors and what they spend while there.
Most, I'd say 98%, of the drunks and dipshiits in Harmon Creek have any concern about State Dock poker run weekend.
I'm sure if you go down there in the morning or evening you can see all the boats at the docks at one time.
If you have to pay you have to pay.
WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO DO?
I'm sure you'll get your survey in the mail to give feedback.
Oh that's right you didn't register.
I vote NO boats ("spectators") allowed on the lake this weekend unless you're a registered poker run participant.
Pretty sure SkiDoc was suggesting that those aspects was what the event has been reduced to.
The lack of a shotgun start and scheduled run is why the event isn't worth attending, as per the OVERWHELMING majority of the complaints about the event from actual PARTICIPANTS. It also turns out that it has greatly diminished the spectator experience, as well.
Nope. I blamed the few spectators who refused/failed to follow just one simple, unwritten, almost universally agreed upon rule: stay off the course. Never once did I blame any other entity. In fact, I suggested that the hosts and/or promoters should not, and cannot truly, be held responsible for what people do in their own privately owned boats.
According to Bill Jasper, who was my dad's next door neighbor when he began promoting the event, and who I've had many conversations with, the event draws in far more revenue from non-participant traffic than the participants do. Things might have changed. But this is the case in almost ALL sporting events. Curiously, Gas stations operate the same way. They make damned little from the sale of fuel, and more than make it up in the sale of chips and drinks and such. No, I wasn't comparing PokerRuns to the NFL. But that's not to say there aren't parallels that can be drawn to provide context.
No. I didn't stutter. I meant CoC, as in Chamber of Commerce. Somebody has to cover the costs of bringing in over a hundred water patrol boats and their personnel from all over the country. And I'm pretty sure they would balk at the idea if the region didn't benefit economically from the event.
It's not hard to do at all. We went on Thursday and walked the docks for a bit; got to see my favorite boat again (Black and White "Late Fees" Skater). It's all good. Chill.....
And now, back to the beginning... SkiDock mentioned that the PokerRun wasn't worth participating in for him, and I agreed as to why. For myself, at least. And they are reasons that have been expressed by MANY people who USED TO register, and no longer do. Is it my fault I actually agree with people who do/have entered the event?
Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991
Last edited by Brad Christy; 09-15-2022 at 01:53 PM.
09-15-2022, 03:09 PM
#50
Registered
iTrader: (4)
I will call and give constructive ideas to make the Poker Run better for those who do it for the run itself. I have experience putting on cash prize waterski tournamenets and realize the problems and amount of work that it takes put on a large event. The Poker Run is important financially for the State Dock but also for Russell County. It was Russell Counties biggest tourism weekend at one time, not so now. If anyone has any ideas for additional events, let me know. IE some things like other poker runs have,
