Baja's....why the hate?
 

So I have seen mention over the years on here that many of you that now have higher end, bigger money, badder boats used to have baja's before. I have also heard/seen first hand a huge hatred for baja's as a whole brand. Just out of curiosity, I always browse and see what's out there for sale and have seen a few 35's and 33's etc for sale at what seems to be pretty fair pricing. I know that baja is not cig or fountain or formula but why all the hate for them? Seems like it's a good way for the average guy to get into the performance world that doesn't have a ton of loot to drop on something bigger, faster, nicer?

On the flip side, I have seen what I would characterize as fanboy types running around in their '88 25 outlaw thinking it's the fastest thing on the water. I don't mind that attitude as long as it doesn't translate into being a douche sandwich when on-land or anchored up or whatever. I'm a huge supporter of being proud of what you have as long as it is in the right manner if that makes sense?

Is this what drives the hate for the brand or am I missing something totally?

Quick story....I was at a boating event 2 years ago in my Nordic and looking for a place to tie up. Saw a few nicer looking boats tied up a little ways out from the drunken mayhem and the end boat was a gorgeous 38 formula...cruised up and did the "mind if I tie up wave" and his wife gave me signals to turn my boat so she could see the side. No biggie as their boat is/was 10 fold nicer than mine, and once she saw the side they signaled to come on and tie up. Got all tied up and asked hey what was the spin dance for?? Immediately...."well if it was a BAJA there's no way we would have let you tie up!" I laughed it off and hung out there for hours...amazing people. Extremely nice, cared for their boat extremely well, not a bad bone in their body as far as I could tell but had this huge hatred for baja and it's not the first time I have encountered it.

Just curious on other's thoughts on the subject. I am not in the market for a new boat right this second so we can keep it to a discussion on the brand rather than recommendations on which one is the best deal hahaha.

I have worked on quite a few bajas. Mid 80s 20' to early 2000 30'. I have hated working on ALL of them. My favorite was an 87 250 force that I owned for a summer. Fairly easy to work and I liked the layout, but it was pretty wet, just like a lot of the other ones I have seen. Most recently I worked on a 2000 30' and that thing was an engineering nightmare. Very clear the designers did not work on boats and keep mechanics in mind.

i think overall they are just a cheaper boat, which generally attracts a cheaper audience, who generally don't take as good of care as someone with a nicer boat.

30 o/l’s we’re terrible to work on, the 29 and 33’s, just a couple of bolts
removed and the back seat comes out, makes it much better to deal with.

The riggging and wiring left a little to be desired, but once I found out, when
back in they hey days, the riggers were expected to rig 2 twin engine boats a day, that doesn’t sound fun to me.

I had 4 of them, never had any problems with the boat’s themselves,
on the last one, the other Brunswick products attached to the rear were a different story.

The hate on them was current, now you hear about Formula plexus bond issues and fountain stringer and transom rot issues…..imagine if that was
a chronic problem 20 years ago ;)

Good points. The biggest reason I think they get a bad rap is because they can be the Honda civic of the sport boat world. Most of the time it’s the owners fault, not the boats. Someone gets a hold of one and makes it gaudy and thinks it’s the coolest thing on water. Their lower price point also doesn’t usually translate to proper upkeep.

I just about rerigged my entire 25 outlaw, and given that was a single wi the a lot less going on vs my 38ZR, there are some spots the ZR is almost as sloppy. (I crawl into spots just scoping a boat out that many don’t see during their entire ownership.) Given they were flying donzis off the line in a hurry as well back in 2006.

When I hear someone bad mouth Bajas in a conversation I’ll remind them it’s usually not the boat, it’s the owner, and a lot of us wouldn’t be running the bigger faster fancier toy now without starting with a Baja.

The 29 OL that I bought new and now a 3rd owner has is pushing 12- 1300 hours. 454 Mag MPIs. Never been opened.
Like a dam Timex lol.

As a Midwest teenager/college kid growing up in the 90s Baja was the premier performance boat brand in my world. The Outlaw and Performance series boats had a unique visual appeal and big block sounds. I was always partial to the 272 Boss and 38 Special. I thought both boats had amazing lines and loved the way they looked on the water. I do think the Midwest performance boat buyer is more value orientated than the buyers on the coasts. I'm not entirely sure why, more fiscally conservative, shorter boating season, more likely to have a second home somewhere warm, IDK. I don't think Baja was ever competing for the Cigarette, Outerlimits, Skater, MTI etc customer. They were laser focused on a value orientated performance boater. For a regional performance boat brand I don't think you get more successful in the Midwest than Baja was in the 90s-early 2000s. They were on the top of the their game. I know our local performance boat dealer Grand Sport Center was extremely successful with the brand during that time period. Maybe it's where I grew up boating but I've always admired the brand.

Owned many, sold them for years and loved every one. As I said when I sold them "Dollar for dollar bang for the buck you can't beat them". Just about everyone, even the big wheels with the MTI's and OL's etc. started with Bajas. As I tell people, never forget where you came from. I would still own another. When I had my 29 I surprised many bigger brand boats. I'd do it all over again. Doesn't matter what you have, it's who you are that is what matters.

I don't hate on them. I just complain about how hard it is to work on some of them. :D

I was 23, and running around on a new Polaris SL1050 like this one, and I thought I was the coolest thing on water.
Attachment 577789

It was coworkers/couple/friends/' with a 24' Baja Outlaw with a 502/415 that got me interested in go-fast boats at Lake Anna. The hull had some water intrusion issues, and Baja replaced it with a 25' Baja Outlaw the following year. Not long after, I had my Sonic 26' Prowler 500EFI; and it was all over after that. I was hooked. I've spent time on quite a few Baja boats, and they will always be a staple of the used boat segment.

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Owned a 235 DVX. Had the camper top package. Had a blast with that boat. My twins are 31 now. They still talk about how much fun they had on that boat. I was aware they had problems with the hull blistering. I sealed that one to prevent any problems. The single was a dream to work on compared to my PQ’s with twins.

Hate on Baja’s?

Have you heard of a company called Fountian?
lol

As others have said, Baja provided an excellent entree into offshore performance boating. Baja was one of few non-California boats that featured gelcoat based graphics. The boats were stylish and the buyer had a broad options list including selecting the vinyl color layout for the interior and a nice range of gelcoat colors. For a high production builder, you really could personalise your boat without added cost. I found the factory support on my new boat was very good in the early 1990's. For what it's worth Baja had very good marketing and was one of the first to use a website circa 1995 which had a cool factor! Yes there were build and rigging compromises to achieve the more affordable price point but for the average buyer, they were smart compromises. As also been said, it doesn't bode well for any boat brand if owner doesn't routinely care for or stay on top of his boat's issues - which they all have.

All that said, I am a little disheartened if there really is genuine "hate" towards Baja's as it's not deserved. I never observed it toward Baja's during my 20 year tenure organizing New Jersey Performance Powerboat Club events which included the best of the best offshore hardware.

I've had 2 Baja's and they were both pretty good boats. No issues with either one. The 320 had a leak around the transom assembly. Took it in and when the pulled the port engine and drive, they found a small piece of wood had been wedged up between the transom and the assembly. I remember a thumping sound one day on the lake and a few days later it started to leak. Big Thunder fixed it and saved the sliver of wood to show me what was causing the leak. A $10 seal and 900.00 labor was all good. As far as I know the boat is still on the Lake.
Replaced that boat with a Fountain. Another favorite to bash. Sits on a lift, all mostly original, new dash and gauges 20 years ago and new power last year, just because. No wet transom, stingers or all that BS. It is all about taking care of them and fixing issues when they come along.

Baja is sorta like Ocean Yachts. The other manufacturers show up to a boat show and these guys show up with seemingly the same boat... engines are the same, drives, gauges, etc. yet their price is way better. So the sales teams have to make up reasons why they suck even though they really didn't suck. Compromises were certainly made to hit the price point but that should be expected to get max value from a product.

So Baja might not be laid up and rigged as well as Formula, Donzi, and Cig but they are a great value. Same goes for Ocean vs Viking. We had a 45 Viking then a 42 Ocean... both had the same engines, generator, gauges, controls, etc. and you know what? The Ocean was faster, more efficient, rode better, and we didn't get wet on the flybridge in 2 foot seas like we would in the Viking. The brand hype is a real thing

I was always a fan of Baja's, no ****, I'm listed as Bajaholic. Over the years, I had a 18, Hammer, 25OL,33OL and finally 40OL. We were always the envy of the family boat sect and step brother of the performance side. But to be honest, most of the hate started after Reggie acquired Baja. The liner built boats were an issue as well over the stringer boats, which really hurt in my opinion their standing with the owners.

Baja's had the "Cigarette look" (ie lines and nice colors) which drew most people to the docks, They always had a great sound and as an owner had alot of bang for the buck. We knew where we fit in as owners, we were the muscle car crowd, performance on a budget.

Baja owners were loyal, numerous ownership "clubs", Factory sponsored events and always a great bunch of people when we tied off. It was a good time.

Unfortunately when Reggie bought Baja I feel he never understood the market because were were not his hoity toity buyers. Most of us aspired to a bigger and better line, but I think it is fair to say, most of us looked to Cigarette or Outerlimits. Never Fountain, which did not help our standing with Reggie.

Today, Performance boats are still on the rebound, Obviously Center Counsels took over. The cost to redesign and then build the Baja line is just not cost effective for the masses. Hard costs are hard costs, and a manufactured line is hard to compete. Maybe someday it will come back around?

No room for hate for anything, especially an inanimate object... people fall under the categories below.

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I had my 25 Outlaw for 10 years and loved it. Only reason I sold it was I got the itch for twins, so I got the Formula. Yes there is a quality difference between the two but the Baja served me well. I had a guy tell me baja was the bayliner of performance boats but idgaf. Everyone's opinion will vary on the subject

So if it was a baja they wouldnt let you tie up but because it`s a Nordic it`s fine?
I don`t understand that logic, sounds like a buunch of stuck up a holes.

People that never owned a baja hate on em because people love to put stuff down to feel better about themselves.
Loved my baja.

Bought my 30' OL at 28 my 3rd boat. FIrst Performance boat. I Love it. Ya its had its issues. Its a used boat and the majority of the issues werent of the boat side. Ya I get if your the guy who has an Islander and says I have a Performance boat your an Idiot. For the most part people around here are pretty friendly and not stuck up. Go ahead and give me alittle **** about it Im aware its not a Donzi or Cig. (Someday!) Most of those guys didnt start there and remember that!

Growing up in the Midwest (Indiana) they were all over the place. Never really seen hate, they are production built boats, like Fountains. Never understood why people would compare them to a Outerlimits or any limited production boat.

They diid bring a lot of boaters into the performance world, I think them and Fountain made more boats then all the others combined.

One thing Baja had that fountain didn't was smaller boats, most may not even remember the little 18 footers they made in the 70's. Did they have issues, sure every boat has/does.

I will disagree with Bajaholic on the hate when Fountain started making them (not many).

Brunswick pretty much gave the molds to Fountain when everything was collapsing, and the whole market went to chit then.

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manuf...0to%20Fountain.

I don't know why, but for some reason the cheaper the boat the more fun I seem to have boating. Maybe it's because my give o care meter runs on empty vs full when I'm on an expensive boat where I'm worried about something most of the time.

I have an old friend who won't ride with me because I ride a Raider not a Harley. Same friend was welcome to tie his little Bayliner up to my Warlock on the lake. Misplaced loyalties.............Morel of the story, don't act like a ***** because you ain't special.

Nothing really wrong with them. More of a budget, black motor/bravo, sporty boat. Midwestern rednecks love them, which can be a turn off for some.

I always thought the styling was good except for the obsession with the color purple.

People are always such cheerleader for the brand they own. I have a Mastercraft but still like Supra, Cig, Outerlimits, Baja...even Azimut, Viking, sailboats....
I'm a motorcycle guy and I don't have to put a costume on to go ride. I have a lot of Harley friends that I ride with and have that attitude that it's the only motorcycle brand and buy into all the BS Harley sells them as a lifestyle. I own 2 Harleys, a Moto Guzzi and a Ducati.... I like to ride them all and it's not a status symbol for me.
Boat in whatever you want and don't be a D***...as long as you're on the water with friends have a good time; who cares what you're in!

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I sold my Checkmate in 1988 and bought my Baja 270 new in 1989. Loved it, eventually put CMI headers and bigger carb. Good 80mph boat. Sold it when I bought a 35' Sonic with twins. Great boat. No issues.

As others have stated and whenever this topic comes up I always say

you’ll be hard pressed to find a prior baja owner that hates on them. Can’t tell you how many guys I know that have MTI’s Skaters, Cigarettes OL’s etc that started with Baja and remember owning one fondly. It’s always those that have never actually owned one that hate on them. And that hate comes from the fact they’re entry level basically production performance boats that can be had for less money….and their ignorance of the brand. Granted, over the years they’ve had their known issues but overall, best bang for the buck on the market.

id own another all day.

I’ve only had experience with one Baja owner and to say that is was less than good would be an understatement
( just happened to be Tanks old Baja )

but I should mention that later they did contact me to apologize
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I have worked on quite a few over the years as well as others. main thing with the Baja is that it is a production boat. not that that makes them bad. biggest issue I have run into with them is the rigging. wiring sucks in some of them, better in others but some of what they do is to get them down the line fast so once you fix those issues they seem to hold up as well or better than some of the others.

Loved all 3 of our Bajas especially the 100mph 33 Outlaw.

Not sure exactly why they get so much hate, lots of good reasons already posted.

I think Baja, Powerquest, Formula, Fountain, Donzi etc. are all very similar for the most part. There are a few exceptions but the way I explain it is.

Baja Challenger
Formula Camaro
Fountain Mustang

Doesn't really matter which ones which but what gives Baja a bad name is most of them were optioned like a V6 base Challenger where as Most Fountains and Donzis were more of a GT or SS trim. They are still all in the same "Class" overall but not always a fair comparison inside that class.

Our 33 Outlaw was built more like a Hellcat or Shelby Cobra, and it was pretty badass! But it's still no Lambo or Ferrari.

2005 30 Outlaw 496ho great boat.

I've had two, loved/love them both. I think it is very accurate to say that they found a much bigger audience in the midwest than on the coasts. It was/is extremely rare to find a Donzi, Fountain, Cigarette, Scarab (the old ones), etc on lakes like Tablerock, Beaver...maybe a few now on LOTO, but on the smaller inland lakes a "Baja" boat was often synonymous with ANY 'go fast' type of boat. The 'in the gelcoat graphics' were indicative of a higher-end boat. Hand-laid fiberglass construction versus chopper guns...Baja marketed their boats well. The boats out of Bucyrus, Ohio are generally considered to be 'better' than others. My little big-block powered 208 made a lot of people shake their heads in grudging admiration, lol! That was a FAST boat.
But there are always the snobs, doesn't matter if boats, cars, motorcycles, etc. Some of the Harley crowd, as noted in posts above, can be pure dicks...I ran into a few of them in my Yamaha street bike days. So yeah, as also noted above, the 'hate' for something or someone just because of the brand, hard to understand.

Lots of great replies here!! I never made the connection to the "harley" guys but that is a very accurate comparison! Basically boils down to the people and not the boat...great explanation on the production built versus custom built and never thought about that either. Thanks for all the replies everyone!! Was nice to have a thread go 3 pages without a fight hahahahaha

I guess it's basically like marrying that nice good looking girl that was never at a lot of parties but takes care of herself and has a natural beauty....baja

Or...you marry the supermodel that is flashy, probably takes all your money, and cheats on you and earned her living as a stripper....OL hahahaha

On my third outlaw. Great boat for the money and what I use it for. Can’t afford the more expensive boats. I know it’s limits and drive it accordingly. Use it in the waters off Atlantic City, NJ. When it’s rough, I stay in the intercostal.

:ernaehrung004:

Couldn't be said any better! My first boat was a 2000 hammer with the 7.4. that boat was awesome for its size

I haven't seen any new Bajas, but I believe if you took the Baja molds and added a couple of modern steps and hand laid the hulls, it would perform as well as any V hull out there.

I grew up ogling Baja's as a kid. They were the go-to powerboat as the transition from V-drives being the apex predator to outdrive propulsion. My only real issues with Baja is that they are farqing everywhere and their seeming propensity to develop soggy stringers and transoms. From all the restoration threads I've read, it seems there was absolutely zero effort in MFG to prevent intrusion. Lag screws into stringers for engine mounts just seems like a bad idea to me. I'm more of a "Not what everybody else has" kinda guy, but obviously their prolific presence is a testament to their popularity.

Despite having my intentions set on a PQ, either 260 or 280, we actually took sea trials in two Bajas when we were in the hunt to upgrade from our Rinker. One Boss 272 and one 25 Outlaw (I think). The 272 seemed very nose high, to the point that I, every inch of 6' tall, struggled to see comfortably over the bow. The 25 rattled like a can half full of pennies with literally every bump in the water. I also didn't like that I absolutely could not drive standing up, something I'd gotten very accustomed to doing in our Rinker 236. It was not a function of boat size, but one of cockpit size, as there was obviously room in the Rinker. We went into both sea trials with an open mind, but ultimately opted out of both and eventually found a gem of what we were looking for.

Thanks. Brad.

So many of us came up through the Baja ranks and have moved on to other brands, I owned a 272 and a 33 Outlaw and ride Harleys, I think if Baja had a production stepped bottom they would of retained more owners, I ride and run with them all.

I think the 35/36 Outlaw was one of their best looking boats. Even old ones have great lines, though the paint jobs can show their age.

Where Baja went wrong was the cruiser line and some of the 20ish foot offerings. Tried to stretch the brand too far, cheapening the name.

The high end theme boats like Poker Face was interesting but I think at that price point buyers balked. They made a 40 that looked pretty cool but again when you break into that “next level price point” buyers can easily be swayed to other brands.

You need to stick to bashing Cigarettes;)

Where they went wrong was the liner boats ( which, in the end was everything
exept the 40 O/L)

when the liners started cracking in the cabin area for example, there’s no fixing it, you get a new boat.

Brunswick didn’t like that, so they gave it to Reggie, he started stick building them again, unfortunately 2008 happened and we all know what happened after that.

No hate here. Sure, they aren’t rigged as nice as a Cig or OL. But, as has been said, they are the best bang for your dollar in the performance world.

We owned ‘99 302 boss. 454’s ran 65mph put over 400hrs on it never had a problem. Cousin owned a 302, 33 outlaw, 36 and a 40 w/575’s. All nice boats.