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Old 01-20-2003, 01:52 AM
  #41
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In my own opinion, we as citizens have the right to vote, we vote the politicians that are in office supposedly they are our voice.
yet ive never been in favor of thier pay raises, or most of thier ideas, granted goverment is much more complicated than playing some board game and conquering all my beer drinking buddies.
The detainees in Cuba, does anyone care about them hell no, but our tax paying dollars are feeding them and putting a roof over their heads, how about the millions of dollars a days we spend on the war on terrorism, trust me ive seen some of the pics of boats we've suspected as terrorist, they look just like every other ship on the ocean on a given day, stopping terrorism will never happen, Nuking Iraq or North Korea as some would like to do will cause the destruction of us all, taking these people out of power will make who ever takes over a puppet regime.
there is no simply answer, but is it ever. thanks for all that have written in this thread, im glad it is not a pissing match.
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Old 01-20-2003, 02:07 AM
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Donzi38ZX,
Great post. Good capture of the emotion that I think we all share.

Quote:
Originally posted by insptech
Do you even have a clue as to what a conservative believes??
Now were talking. Why don't you rationally explain just what conservatives believe and post your list of who best represents conservatism. I'll try to find a liberal point of view that is rationally presented and we will be well on our way to a better understanding. In the mean time lets agree to quit name calling liberals and defining them according to Rush Limbo and the right wing press definitions. (Shall we explore the myth of the liberal press here or in another thread?)

If I understand your defense of Steve 1 correctly, are you saying his hate rants are the "opinion of well spoken conservatives?" One thing for sure, you can't argue with him.

Here is one of his debate team winners:

"Tom you see and know the word Liberal is a Cloak it’s the name these “Useful Idiots” in this country call them selves while toddling along behind their handlers.

Fidel Castro is a another Liberal forget the word communism Its liberalism and all the liberals love him BTW one look at Jesse Jackson and the Hollywood leftists and their fondness for Saddam and fidel

Now Joseph Stalin That was a Great Liberal! He said “Cut the legs of the tall to match the short” Right?

Only in this country the leg cutting is the redistribution of wealth Via Taxation and Social Programs.

Not mentioning the fact that the Prisons are full of Liberals who believe it is ok to acquire wealth without Well lets say “without working for it”. The felon vote LOL!

The Jews well lets say in the last thousand years they bred more for intelligence while their counter part over there married his cousin!

The proof like I said before would be Nobel Laureates in the hard sciences Right??? Between the two groups?"

Last edited by Tom; 01-20-2003 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 01-20-2003, 02:56 AM
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Tom you mentioned JFK was he a liberal? No he was an Old style Democrat. About as far from a socialist (half a communist) as you could get.

Also your take on Hitler is Laughable he was a socialist is case you had not noticed!! The name Nazi’s definition! What is it???????????

You seem to disagree with my take on the Jewish and the Palestinian intelligence based on an observation! Again even in the Qur’an in referring to the Jews there is a passage that goes as follows rough translation = I made you best. Now you prove me wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ll tell you the difference between liberals and Conservatives as I see it!!
Engineer’s Technicians Mechanics to name a few deal with the Physical World the real world with things you touch!!

Now some of these Liberal life long pursuit rent control apartment seeking PhD’s and their group lets say live in a theoretical world one they create by their rules. Fairy land!

Example we (my side) live in an Entire world of absolutes I make a mistake a couple people get hurt or worse.

An Aircraft Engineer or a Mechanic makes a mistake hundreds of People go screaming to a horrible death… Get the picture!!!!!!

Now some By the same token a Liberal ******* Economist can be wrong his entire career and never lose his firkin Job!!

And just to show that I am not an entirely a bad guy!!

My oldest Son is in collage studying engineering since now days you get a Multicultural Experience I believe the ratio is 18:1 18 the clowns and 1 the American Professors I Told him that if he wanted to be a true Liberal he should pull a Point off his grade average and give it to someone who does not work hard/try and parties every night.

I got the point across!
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:00 AM
  #44
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Default Bush and Saddam

What do the liberals think Bush's ulterior motives are? He is already rich. He's been rich all his life. Certainly he doesn't want to put this great country that he has lived and continues to live such a good life in jeopardy just so that he can have more wealth.

Do the people who feel Bush is only after oil and wealth have any clue about history? Do you know what kind of man Saddam is?

Watch "Why can't they kill Saddam" on the History Channel if you want to learn something.

Saddam is a murderer, who's dictatorship is based on fear. He began his career by trying to assasinate the President of Iraq in a street high powered gun fight. Unsuccessful, he was jailed and in jail began to study how he would take control of the country. While imprisoned, a relative of his became the president, and Sadaam became his successor. Sadaam began his dictatorship in 1979. He will torture and brutally kill anyone who even speaks against him. The people of Iraq truly believe that even in their most private estates they don't dare speak or whisper disparaging words about Saddam for fear that he is monitoring their conversation at any time and any place. The penalty for speaking against him is removal of the tongue. Political opponents are hung. People whom he wishes to get information from are placed in rooms with liquid nitrogen being dropped from various pvc pipe outlets forcing them to run around the small room and avoid contact with the falling droplets until they confess.

Any man who addresses his public with a rifle or machine gun in his hand firing in the air is clearly a problem.

Do you think that Saddam has nothing to do with the disappearance of Osama Bin Laden?

Have we all forgotten that 3000 american civilians died in NYC?

Sadaam should have been taken out in 1991 and I'm sure George Bush would like to have done it. But we lacked the resources at the time after the mission (keeping Saddam out of Kuwait) was accomplished. In addition, there is no way anyone in america would support invading Iraq in 1991, because the american public didn't understand the threat. Post Sept. 11, people still don't understand that threat, so how could it be understood in 1991.

One more thing regarding left vs. right. Democrats always make the argument that once republicans take office, the economy falls, we become involved in wars, poverty and unemployment rises. How ignorant is that.

Do the democrats really believe that the changes that republicans make begin to change the world overnight? What is going on today is a result of 8 years with Clinton in office. Everything looked rosey during the Clinton administration because of 8 years of republicans in office. Clinton's weak foreign policy, retreating from Somalia and Yemen, and not retaliating for the first trade center bombing demonstrated the US has no backbone. Clinton is largely responsible for the attacks on the Trade Center and the state of the union today. He understaffed and weakened the CIA to the point of no return, allowing names and photographs to be published with the media. Does anyone really understand the nature of a CIA agent's job? It's as dangerous as it gets!

Hans Blix - what a joke. 30 years and he has never found a weapon of mass destruction. He gave N. Korea a clean bill of health. How are 7 UN inspectors going to find something that a dictator of 20+ years has hidden in his own country. Do you know how big Iraq is? "Let the inpectors do their job" the liberals say. Well their job is a failure and always will be. Why haven't they been doing their job over the past 11 years? or the past 30 years for that matter.

Last edited by at100plus; 01-20-2003 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:25 AM
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Default A little something to back me up.

Ronald Reagan:

Ronald Reagan won the Republican Presidential nomination in 1980 and chose as his running mate former Texas Congressman and United Nations Ambassador George Bush. Voters troubled by inflation and by the year-long confinement of Americans in Iran swept the Republican ticket into office. Reagan won 489 electoral votes to 49 for President Jimmy Carter.

On January 20, 1981, Reagan took office. Only 69 days later he was shot by a would-be assassin, but quickly recovered and returned to duty. His grace and wit during the dangerous incident caused his popularity to soar.

Dealing skillfully with Congress, Reagan obtained legislation to stimulate economic growth, curb inflation, increase employment, and strengthen national defense. He embarked upon a course of cutting taxes and Government expenditures, refusing to deviate from it when the strengthening of defense forces led to a large deficit.

A renewal of national self-confidence by 1984 helped Reagan and Bush win a second term with an unprecedented number of electoral votes. Their victory turned away Democratic challengers Walter F. Mondale and Geraldine Ferraro.

In 1986 Reagan obtained an overhaul of the income tax code, which eliminated many deductions and exempted millions of people with low incomes. At the end of his administration, the Nation was enjoying its longest recorded period of peacetime prosperity without recession or depression.

In foreign policy, Reagan sought to achieve "peace through strength." During his two terms he increased defense spending 35 percent, but sought to improve relations with the Soviet Union. In dramatic meetings with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, he negotiated a treaty that would eliminate intermediate-range nuclear missiles. Reagan declared war against international terrorism, sending American bombers against Libya after evidence came out that Libya was involved in an attack on American soldiers in a West Berlin nightclub.

By ordering naval escorts in the Persian Gulf, he maintained the free flow of oil during the Iran-Iraq war. In keeping with the Reagan Doctrine, he gave support to anti-Communist insurgencies in Central America, Asia, and Africa.

Overall, the Reagan years saw a restoration of prosperity, and the goal of peace through strength seemed to be within grasp.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:29 AM
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Caught the show, "Why can't they kill Saddam". It was really a good show with lots of points about the history of Saddam and why you see him all the time in Iraq.

Not a very nice man, surely a dictator.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:46 AM
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William Clinton: ( a disgrace )

Clinton became the 42nd U.S. president following a turbulent political campaign. He overcame vigorous personal attacks on his character and on his actions during the Vietnam War, which he actively opposed. The “character issue” stemmed from allegations of infidelity, which Clinton refuted in a television interview in which he and Hillary avowed their relationship was solid. Throughout his term in office, Clinton was dogged by allegations relating to the Whitewater real estate deal in which he and Hillary were involved prior to the 1992 election. Though the Clintons were never accused of any wrongdoing, partners in the venture were convicted of fraud and conspiracy in a trial in 1996.

Congress approved a waiting period for handgun purchases (the Brady Bill), and a national service program.

(Hello liberals, criminals don't use legally registered guns to commit crimes. In fact when you outlaw guns like semi automatic rifles, their owners are more likely to keep them illegally rather than turn them in for a measly $50 bucks. Those illegal guns then get sold on the black market and used in crimes.)

In 1996, aided by a booming economy, Clinton won reelection to a second term, becoming the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to do so.

(Booming economy because of residual Reaganomics)

However, the character issues that had followed Clinton for years soon began to emerge once again. A series of investigations was begun to determine whether Clinton and Vice President Gore had participated in questionable fund-raising practices in their 1996 campaign.

As his tenure wore on, Clinton came under increasing pressure from Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel who in 1994 took over the investigation of the Clintons' involvement in the Whitewater land deal. Over time, Starr's brief was expanded to include other matters, such as the death of White House lawyer Vincent Foster, the handling of firings in the White House travel office, and shocking allegations of sexual misconduct by Clinton.

(And the left thinks Bush is seeking control of oil??? Look at this greedy, power hungry moron. It's proven, and we don't even have to get into infidelity)

In Jan. 1998, Clinton was called to testify in a long-pending sexual harassment suit brought against him by Paula Corbin Jones, a former Arkansas state employee. In his testimony, Clinton denied that he had had a sexual relationship with a young White House intern, Monica Lewinsky, and that he had attempted to cover it up. Although a federal judge in Arkansas threw out the Jones sexual harassment suit in April 1998, by this time the Lewinsky affair had become the focus of Kenneth Starr's investigation as well as a national obsession.

Finally, on Aug. 17, 1998, after relentless media attention, leaks, and news of Lewinsky's upcoming testimony, Clinton made history by becoming the first U.S. president to testify in front of a grand jury in an investigation of his own possibly criminal conduct. In an address to the nation that evening, he admitted to having had an “inappropriate relationship” with Lewinsky, but reaffirmed that he did not ask anyone to lie about or cover up the affair.

Paradoxically, however, in spite of the scandalous outcome of events, Clinton's overall popularity among Americans remained high. The country seemed willing to ignore his weaknesses in character, much as they did in the 1992 elections, as long as the economy was good, his policies were popular, and the United States remained strong abroad.

On Sept. 9, Starr—a conservative Republican whose investigation was seen by Clinton supporters as a politically inspired vendetta—delivered his report to the House of Representatives. While the report outlined 11 possible grounds for impeachment, none stemmed from the initial subjects of the investigation, including the Whitewater real estate deal. The real focus of the accusations seemed to be Clinton's moral conduct, and the “Starr Report” graphically detailed his sexual affair.

Despite the American population's general disapproval of a trial (which was reflected in poll after poll), Congress moved forward in its highly partisan impeachment proceedings and on Dec. 19, Clinton became the second president in American history to be impeached. Two of the four articles of impeachment passed (Article I, grand jury perjury, and Article III, obstruction of justice), the votes drawn along party lines. After a Senate trial in Jan.–Feb. 1999, Clinton was acquitted on both counts.

(actually I guess we have to go into his infidelity - THE SAME PUBLIC WHO TRUSTED THIS MAN NOW DOUBT'S THE MOTIVES OF GEORGE W. BUSH - with no support for the argument).

While the impeachment trial overshadowed all other activity in Washington for a good portion of 1998, Clinton was forced to respond to continued problems with Iraq at the end of the year. In December, Saddam Hussein blocked a weapons inspection by the United Nations. The UN responded with airstrikes that would continue on a nearly daily basis for the next three months, and then off and on through the spring and summer, as Iraq taunted the U.S. and its allies further by shooting at jets patrolling the no-fly zones set up after the Persian Gulf war.

(SO BUSY DEFENDING HIS CHARACTER, SADDAM WAS IGNORED - THIS IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS POSITION TODAY.)

On Jan. 19, 2001, the day before he left office, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license and his paying of a $25,000 fine to the Arkansas Bar Association. In exchange, Kenneth Starr's successor, Robert Ray, agreed to close the Whitewater probe, ending the threat of criminal liability for Mr. Clinton after he left office.

Last edited by at100plus; 01-20-2003 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 01-20-2003, 07:53 AM
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George W. Bush:

Bush has earned a reputation as a compassionate conservative who shapes policy based on the principles of limited government, personal responsibility, strong families and local control.

President Bush is pursuing the same common-sense approach and bipartisan spirit that he used in Texas. He has proposed bold initiatives to ensure that America's prosperity has a purpose. He has also addressed improving our nation's public schools by strengthening local control and insisting on accountability; reducing taxes on <b>all taxpayers</b>, especially for those Americans on the fringes of poverty; strengthening the military with better pay, better planning, and better equipment; saving and strengthening Social Security and Medicare by providing seniors with more options; and ushering in the responsibility era in America.
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Old 01-20-2003, 11:34 AM
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Tom here you go just trying to be neighborly, here is your side!! Exemplified, since you have a fetish for long winded copy/paste this is all over the Internet.

The Clinton Crime List (Partial)

Lying Under Oath as President - 2 times
Lying Under Oath as Governor - 5 times
Lying Under Oath as Attorney General
Lying Under Oath in a Deposition
Lying Under Oath to a Grand Jury
Lying Under Oath as a Lawyer
Abuse of Power
Obstruction of Justice
Treason
Sedition
Corruption
Coercion
Graft
Bribe Solicitation
Taking Bribes
Bribery of Cabinet Members
Bribery of State Officials
Commercial Bribery
Commercial Bribery Receiving
Illegal Gift-Taking
Falsifying Business Records
Misapplication of Property
Criminal Use of a Computer
Misuse of Franking Privilege
Receiving Dual Compensation
Receiving Unlawful Gratuities
Malfeasance of Office
Perjury
Subornation of Perjury
Perjury by Inconsistent Statements
Criminal Trespass
Witness Intimidation
Witness Tampering
Jury Tampering
Tampering With Physical Evidence
Tampering With Public Records
Ethics Violations
Intentional Interference in the Administration of Justice
Refusing to Assist a Judicial Officer
Hindering Prosecution in the First Degree
Hindering Prosecution in the Second Degree
Unlawful Contact in the First Degree
Misrepresentation
Civil Contempt of Court
Criminal Contempt of Court
Contempt of Congress
Contempt of the American People
Deception
False Information or Report
False Accusation
False Testimony
Factually False Testimony
False Swearing
Unworn Falsification
Misappropriating Funds
Misconduct
Marital Misconduct
Serious Misconduct
Professional Misconduct
Official Misconduct
Notorious Misconduct
Misconduct Involving a Controlled Substance
Obstruction of the Judicial Process
Misuse of Confidential Information
Interference With Official Proceedings
Recklessness
Grand Larceny
Extortion
Embezzlement
Vandalism
Blackmail
Cruelty to Animals
Obstruction of Highways
Substance Abuse
Evidence Suppression
Illegal Foreign Campaign Funding
Aiding and Abetting Espionage
Aiding and Abetting Foreign Dictators
Aiding and Abetting Arsonists
Aiding and Abetting a Known Felon
Aiding and Abetting Terrorists and Terrorist Organizations
Terrorist Threatening
Providing Material Support to Terrorists
Engaging in Transactions with Terrorists
Improper Exports of Sensitive Technology
Attempted Intimidation of Prosecutors
Failure to Declare Income
Failure to Investigate Drug Trafficking
Scheme to Defraud
Real Estate Fraud
Voter Fraud
Mail Fraud
Wire Fraud
Interstate Transportation to Defraud
Destruction of Business Records with Intent to Defraud
Criminalizing Frauds on Financial Institutions
Use of State Police for Personal Purposes
Illegal Loan Extraction
False Reports by Medical Examiners and Others Investigating Suspicious Deaths
Improper Futures Trading
Illegal Use of the Executive Branch
Character Defamation
Destruction of Evidence
Political Espionage
Money Laundering
Criminal Negligence
Possession of False Papers
False Acknowledgment
False Declaration Before a Court
Wrongful Handling of Public Documents
Concealing or Covering Up of Material Fact
Misprision of Felony
Criminal Deception
Disclosure of Confidential Information
Failure to Account for Public Money
Receiving or Concealing Stolen Government Property
Failure to Deposit Federal Monies
Wrongful Solicitation of Embezzlement or Gifts
Use of a Public Building to Solicit Political Funds
Accepting Fee for Federal Employment
Offering to Procure an Appointive Public Office
Taking Illegal Kickbacks
Racketeering
Investing Racketeering Income
RICO Conspiracy
Conspiracy
Conspiracy to Conceal
Conspiracy to Murder
Conspiracy to Engage in Racketeering
Conspiracy to Defraud the Federal Government
Wrongful Destruction of War Records
Malicious Injury to Property
Acquiring an Enterprise Through Racketeering
Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property
Offering Gratuities or Graft to a Public Official
Soliciting or Accepting Illegal Gratuities
Offering Gratuities to a Witness
Seeking or Accepting Illegal Compensation
Influencing or Injuring Officers, Jurors or Witnesses
Obstructing Agency Proceedings
Obstructing Criminal Investigations
Threatening Victims, Witnesses or Informants
Harassing Victims, Witnesses or Informants
Retaliating Against Victims, Witnesses or Informants
Falsely Making or Forging a Public Record
Falsely Making or Forging a Document
Uttering or Publishing a False Public Record
Transmitting a False Record to the United States
Misuse of Government Files
Desecration of Federal Ethics Laws
Judicial Intimidation
Conflict of Interests
Illegal Campaign Activity
Misuse of Corporate Assets
Ordering Politically Motivated Audits
Ordering Politically Motivated Investigations
Timing of War Influenced by Political Considerations
Foreign Influence Peddling
Regular Influence Peddling
Providing False and Misleading Testimony
Misapplying Funds
Criminal Violation of the Privacy Act
Evisceration of the Right to Habeas Corpus
Misuse of Taxpayer Funds
Interfering with a Court Order
Theft of Government Property
Abuse of Taxpayer Financed Travel
Anti-American Espionage
Jeopardizing National Security
Aiding and Abetting Drug Traffic
Aiding and Abetting Organized Crime
Aiding and Abetting Terrorism
Murder by Accessory by Witness Tampering
Murder by Accessory by Forgery
Solicitation to commit murder by accessory
Accessory to Multiple Deaths
Accessory to Murder in the Second Degree
Accessory to Aggravated Murder
Accessory to Felony Murder
Accessory to Criminal Libel
Accessory to Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution
Accessory to Arson
Accessory to Criminal Negligent Burning
Accessories After the Fact
Accessory to Abduction
Accessory to Causing Mental Harm to a Child
Custodial Interference in the First Degree
Child Endangerment
Cruelty to Persons
Sexual Harassment
Indecent Exposure in the Second Degree
Indecent Assault
Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress
Malicious Wounding
False Imprisonment
Sexual Abuse of Employees
Lewd and Lascivious Conduct
Exchange of Promotions or Benefits for Sexual Favors
First Degree Sexual Assault
Second Degree Sexual Assault
Third Degree Sexual Assault
Fourth Degree Sexual Assault
Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Statutory Rape
Sexual Battery
Intent to Rape
Suspicion of Rape
Rape
Forcible Rape
Oral Copulation
Misdemeanor Sexual Assault
Sexual Misconduct in the First Degree
Criminal Sexual Conduct by Force and Coercion
Unlawful Sexual Contact
Unlawful Sexual Activity with a Minor
Consensual Digital Penetration
Lewd Proposal
Sexual Battery
Penetration by a Foreign Object
Failure to Register as a Sexual Offender
Dereliction of Duty
Corrupting Public Discourse
Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor
Unfit to hold a law license
Conduct Unbecoming a President
Impersonating a Public Servant
Squandering the Public Trust
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Old 01-20-2003, 11:43 AM
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Huh?

"Consensual Digital Penetration"


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