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OT: Best Prices on Supplements

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Old 03-23-2003, 07:37 PM
  #21
Allan4
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Gordo, that is correct. The world of supplements is very confusing and contradicting. The aspertame is used for taste only. There are several other options they could use in place of the aspertame. It's not life threatening or anything, but it is a toxic substance that has been linked to several chronic illnesses. The key is to keep your intake of aspertame and similiar synthetics to a minimum. A little won't kill ya, but if you can avoid it, all the better. I was PISSED when I was taking Metrx like an addict for about a year then did some reading on Apsertame. I damn near had a fit. And they call it a health food supplement!!!!!!!!

Cat, audacity is correct. It is very similiar to a scenario where people try to lose weight and still drink 8 or 10 or 12 oz of Orange Juice a day. Sure, it is good for you in several ways, but the problem is the sugar content, measured in grams. Yes, it is natural sugars, but it will assist in wieght gain. Slim Fast is the same way....that sutff has like 30-40 grams of sugar in each 12 oz serving!! Typically the "belly" is mostly, if not all, diet. Try to cut back on refined sugars and carbs. That should help, but as audacity said, you need to find what works for you. With a bad knee, have you ever tried swiming laps? Great low impact workout, great way to cross train.

AS far as all that diet pop and stuff..........WOW!! Not only the aspertame, but the phosphoric acid content is just eating the s*** out of your GI lining and kidneys. Bad stuff. The real coke is loaded with sugar, you are correct. My suggestion would be just eliminate the pop all together. Drink iced tea or green tea if you want caiffene. Even coffee is better than the pop stuff, although it is pretty acidic as well. I drink a diet coke from time to time as well, I just try to keep it to a minimun. I would say that given the choice of the two (diet v regular) I would do niether and try to keep all the other stuff in moderation. Clean diet with a littel cheating.

In summation, just keep the sugar and carbs down (refered to above as a low glycemic index type of diet), eat veges and fruits (be aware some of these will spike you insulin levels), drink a good ammout of water, get your protien levels up to about 70% (in grams) of your lean muslce wieght mass and just keep things in moderation. try not to overload on anything. I usually screw that up.

Have fun.....do what makes ya feel good and be happy.....
 
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Old 03-23-2003, 09:06 PM
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Al,,bro...come on...i can give you an ass load of reading material that will tell you hi protein diet is the worst for you...you are correct i do drink tea and coffee...but with loads of equal in it!LOL...

"but it is a toxic substance that has been linked to several chronic illnesses. "...it has NOT been proven.

"eating the s*** out of your GI lining and kidneys. "...again,,,not proven...actually if this was true then you would see elevated kidney enzymes in persons that dink a gal of diet pop a day...that would be me...i can show you tons of readings that say diet pop will make you fat...

anyway i've had my fair share of complete blood work ups...i know what things do to me....do I REALLY KNOW...NO...if you can stay on a diet like mine with out this stuff....you DA MAN....and more power to ya....

funny...dr. scott actually invented metrx for cancer patients that were hospitalized...go figure
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Old 03-23-2003, 09:11 PM
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actually i think this tread is good...people get to see very good points from both sides...ultimately, you have to make your own choices and you should feel good about them...

thanks Al for another good point of view!
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Old 03-23-2003, 11:17 PM
  #24
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to disagree with you. I think we agree more than not, but here is a quick rebuttle to your comments. Like you said, good that other people can read this and learn about this stuff, or atleast, be aware of some things. There are infinte ammounts of information and viewpoints on these sorts of topics.

I'm not one for posting links to prove a point, but everyone might find this kind of interesting. Even reading this with a grain of salt is alarming. Especially considering the source....American College of Physicians. You can find literally 100's of these types of articles. When you read this, keep in mind that formaldeheyde is a known carcinogen as well. Infact, the entire aldehyde family is bad news. Many times your body will convert certain substances into different aldehydes in the body. Likewise, certain illnesses and infections can produce toxic byproducts. Pretty common knowledge, this is what makes many diseases so harmful. Example.......Candida Albicans and yeast fungal overgrowths in the GI system release acetaldehyde, a nuerotoxin into the tissue and blood. The actual fugus creates this toxin as a waste product. It collects in the body and your body WILL NOT detoxify these toxins until they are provoked with a detoxification process. Just one small example. Western medicine (the USA) is the only major medical society that does not use detoxification as a way to heal and maintain good health. Check out this link

http://www.devinehealth.com/Aspertame_Warnings.htm

I agree and disagree with you about the high protein diet(we'll leave that for another time...as you know that is one long a$$, indepth discussion..HAHAA). But, if you read my post, I am not condoning a high protein diet. I talk of moderation quite a bit. Infact, I don't even think I mention meat one time (although it has be shown many times that you can actually get a higher protien diet thru beans than meat....I was pretty surprised to learn that). I just said that if you are training you need to try to get about 70% of your lean muscle mass in wieght as protien in grams. Example.....For a 185lb male, that might be about, my guess, 90-120 grams per day. YOu may have misintepreted my comments to mean protien should be 70% of your diet, that is not what I am saying. Moderation......too much protien creates a strain on the liver. You can only metabolize about 40-50 grams per serving.

You said you drink 3 Metrx and 2x3 Designer Pro shakes per day....right there you are at about 180 grams per day. At my heaviest (6'1", 215lbs) and strongest, I probably only had an intake of about 120-130 grams per day. I felt it was plenty for me.

As for eating the GI lining and kidney stress, phosphoric acid is notorious for these, and also puts strain on other organs. Acid accumulation in the tissue can be the base of almost any degenerative disease. ANY acidic intake is bad for GI lining, that is why coffee drinkers get ulcers. Acidic skin disease, i.e. fungal growth, blotchy skin, etc.......the skin is our largest organ. Phosphoric acid and other acids really beats up on the GI mucosal lining that starts at your tounge and ends at your butthole. That is why diet modification is needed to heal GI illness. Note, however, Amino acids (not to be confused with acidic foods) such as L-Glutamine are commonly used to rebuild the GI mucosal lining, as in repair from Candida Albicans and Leaky Gut Syndrome.

AS for Kidneys..........KIDNEY STONES!!!! It has something to do with the hardening of excess calcium, the acid plays a role. To be honest, I forget how it works. I do not have any research at hand for either of these, nor am I gonna dig any up, but I wouldn't say these things if I did not feel it had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt from what I have learned. Any well educated physician will confirm that every major degenerative illness is based in an acidic environment. The key is to try to keep your tissue PH levels nuetral, or as close to 7.0 (I think, it might be 7.5, I can't remember). This can be done with diet and supplements. Societies with an average life span into the 90's have a very alkaline diet. Example, Okinawa life span is avg of 95. Many researches attribute this to the high calcium, magnesium and trace mineral in their drinking water. They have, basically, very little degenerative disease and are among the healthiest societies on the planet. In contrary, our public drinking water is typically very acidic due to the chlorination and additional chemicals used to treat the water.

There are literally gobs of research on all this stuff. Sorry about the long post, hope someone may learn a little bit of stuff from this. Not trying to be arguementative audacity, just kinda sharing thoughts with you.

As we both have said, do what makes you feel good and what makes you happy. Everyone is different. Keep in mind that food allergies are VERY prevelant. If you eat something that makes you feel crappy, leave it alone. Literally millions of people are un knowingly suffering from food alleriges and have no idea that is what is causing their symptoms. Example....significant research has been conducted linking food, chemical and enviro allergies to ADD and AHDH, especially in kids.

Okay...I'll shut up!! Happy training and make sure you drink plenty of water (reverse osmosis is best) and only take high qaulity supplemtents. The cheap stuff is crap and willnot be absorbed by the body

Take 'er slllllooowwwwwww
 
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:29 AM
  #25
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what up 105!...call me at work today 734 523 5339...it's been KRAZY around here! 105,,,,whatever!...you still look F'n KILLER would be my guess!!!...pizza and dooooootsss....move'n up a class lary???

i can tell you right now that 130g of protein would be a joke and i would loose an ASS LOAD of muscle on that diet! ...i just told you about my drinks...did i mention that i eat 5+ large chicken breasts a day and 6 eggs!LOL...gota eat the meat!

i've dialed some people in in my time!LOL....you have to remember that bodybuilders are WAY ahead in the fine art of DIET!....well, when it comes to low fat and hi muscle growth.

American College of Physicians...well they are still say'n HGH is for kids...and it now public knowledge it's the #1 anti-aging drug in the world...always has been!...hummmm,,,hollywood ....governments developed strength drugs....but if you look them up in a medical dictionary they say NOT....go figure...

so why do none of these things show up in my blood work?....i know when i put TNT in my shake it shows up!!!LOL
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:34 AM
  #26
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Yup, no doubt about it you are right about the body builders knowing what is best for lean muslce mass. But, you gotta admit they take take things to extremes and do not always do it safely. YOu said a high protien diet was bad for you in one post, but you are draining over 300g a day!!!! WOWOWOWOW!!!

After adding it up and rethinking it, I was probably over 130g per day, but not by much. 150 at most. I was squating over 500, shrugging over 500 and military pressing behind the neck about 205. Not too shabby for a guy that fluctuated between 203 and 215lbs (depending on diet)....HeHeHe......

I never could bench worth a damn. Most I ever pushed was about 275. Hell I inclined 265, just had a benching problem. May have been an old hockey injury to my shoulder, not really sure.

One thing noone mentioned about red meat is the ATP. ATP is the main functioning element in Creatine. Gooooodddd stuff. I think meat is a vital ingredient in building muscle mass, but you can actually get more PROTIEN in beans!! Pretty wild!! Just be sure to mix it up and try to keep some balance. If not, fluctate the diet. Don't get stuck eating 20 or 30 foods or something like that, you need to have more variety

Problem with Creatine and HGH and such is that you are altering your body chemistry and biological makeup. Many different opinions on this stuff. HGH is great, but it has dangers as well. If anyone chooses to do this, make sure you inject it, otherwise you are wasting your $$

Funny how the "mainstream" medical community is starting to "embrace" treatments as their own, although alternative drs. have bees using this stuff for years.!!!

As for the blood work, don't have an answer for ya on that one audacity. Not a doctor. I would say that perhaps 1.) there is no buildup or storage, it simply is excreted 2.) you are not doing specific tests for these chemicals in the blood 3.)YOu have to provoke the chemicals (or whatever your body has changed them into) out of the tissue, organs and joints. If you feel good, keep at it, I am also one of the few people who know what makes their body tick.

Cat, thermogenic supplements work, but are dangerous if they have ephedra. Creatine is great stuff, really really helps with muscle endurance, but it needs to be taken correctly and you need to take breaks from it. YOu want Monohydrate, not Phosphate. Beverly Intl are really good products, they also make a ZMA as you were talking about before.

Cool stuff guys, I like talking about this stuff. If anyone has any other questions, I will try my best to help you, I'm sure audacity will as well. I think he probably is a little more "up to date" than I am, but I am pretty on top of alot of this stuff

Happy training, no better feeling than being is awesome shape!!
 
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Old 03-24-2003, 12:12 PM
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al...i said; "i can give you an ass load of reading material that will tell you hi protein diet is the worst for you"...AND "i can show you tons of readings that say diet pop will make you fat... " NEVER said i believe this ****!!! LOL

"draining over 300g a day"...i take measurements in my piss...so NOT...next question .... "there is no buildup or storage, it simply is excreted"...you said it...if you piss it out and there is no trace of enzymes in the urine or blood....your organ(s) did not need to repair itself due to a toxin....it never happend.

again...very good info from both sides in here...you coming to the cinci race Al...we chat there!...i could tell ya stuff that would blow you away!!!LOL

cya soon...
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Old 03-24-2003, 10:37 PM
  #28
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Wow, thanks for all the info guys. I ended up ordering from planetdepot, they had the best prices by far (about 60% off retail).

Today was my first day back to training and diet. I made it okay, but I will say this - eating right SUCKS! When I was lifting and training before I never worried about diet that much, other than getting enough protien, creatine and HMB. I never had to. At this point I've let myself go far enough that without maintaining a strict diet I won't ever get back to what I used to be. So it's egg whites and wheat toast (dry) for breakfast, turkey or chicken for lunch, chicken or lean meat for dinner, myoplex shakes or bars plus betagen 3 times per day, and whole sh!t load of water (at least 100 oz.). This might take awhile to get used to. I miss my pop (soda for some of you guys), fast food, pizza, white bread, milk, juice, chips, cookies, candy, etc... But I keep looking in the mirror and am quickly reminded that it's all worth it!

Gotta go - need sleep so I can be to the gym at 6am.

Brian
 
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Old 03-24-2003, 11:01 PM
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Now you guys are telling me that milk isn't good for me?

So I can't have my giant glass of milk before bed time?

What the hell is this world coming to???
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Old 03-25-2003, 12:01 AM
  #30
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Audacity....Yeah, I'll be here in Cincy.....maybe I will see ya then.

B88, those first few days or weeks can be a little aggrivating!! Soon it will become the normal routine and it will be a daily no brainer. Have fun man, it pays off!!

BTW....be sure to get the veges and greens and keep that ph balanced......

Gordo......realizing I am at risk of sounding pretty anal, your not going to like this, but milk is just hell in the digestive system. Interupts and disturbs digestion which places strain on the gall bladder and liver and colon and so on, and can really hurt your absorbtion of nutrients in the large intestines........Infact, the entire GI system I spoke of in a few posts is not a very happy camper when milk shows up. I know it is the opposite of what we have been told all our lives, but many drs. and nutritionalists are saying to keep the milk products to a minimum. Aside from the cholesterol, It really clogs the intestines, makes them mucussy and can trigger food allergies. Plus it has traces of Bovine hormones and of antibiotics (given to the cows to increase production of milk). This is also very disruptive to the bowel system and can encourage fungal and bacterial growth in the intestines and upset the gut flora balance, which, inturn, compromises your immune system and leaves you more suceptable to illness, allergies, disease....blah blah blah....see, it's a big domino effect!! . I used to drink about 3-4 glasses of skim milk per day...it contains about 1g of protien per oz. After reading up and learning about how milk can beat you up, I stopped drinking it. I still do some cheese from time to time. Again....moderation. If you like milk and want to keep drinking it, I suggest 1.) cutting the intake in 1/2 and switching to skim milk 2.) changing to soy or rice milk.......I know I know....sounds corny, but it is better for you. The milk before bed is for the calcium. It is a natural relaxent (is that a word?). IF that helps ya sleep, just cut it back. I don't think soy or rice milk will help ya with sleep though. You could also try a Calcium supplement if you really wanted to kick milk.

Again, just do what makes you feel good. HOwever, you will crap youself if you actually change your diet for the better and see how much better it can make you feel. Simple, but totaly amazing.

Here is an interesting thing I learned today......in the 1940's only 2% of the population had cancer. Infact, in the 1800's there is no documentaion of cancer at all. Today it is more than 1in 3 people and soon it will be 1 out of every 2 people has/had cancer of some form. What has changed??

According to this doctor and apparently many other docs, it is the fact that today we have the lowest level of oxygen in the air we breathe in the history of the world....I'll spare ya the rest, but if anyone is interested, I'll expound why that means increased cancer rates.

Later......
 
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