baja vs. scarab?
 

Im looking at buying my 1st boat and I need some advise. I want to go fast but cant spend more than $20k. My friends got flat bottoms with big v-8s and I know those are the best bang for the buck. But im 6'9" and cant fit in those little boats. Im looking at a 1995 22' Wellcraft Scarab for $18k and a 1998 21' Baja Hammer for $19.5k. They both have 454. The Baja has hydraulic trim tabs. The scarab has 2oohrs and the Hammer has 70hrs. The boat will be used mostly for lake and river cruising. Any ideas would be appreciated. Any other boats under $20k I should consider?

Baja........that seems like a good value. Oh, and welcome to the board!!!!

I think you will find the Baja has more room in it for you large frame.

Be careful of the Hammer. They have a tendancy to chine walk
at WOT and it can get hairy.

, the hammer most likely has the 310 hp 454mpi engine, where as the scarab might have the bigger hp 454 in it??? the scarab is a nice boat, but has dated interior, the baja has a more modern interior in it, both boats would work for you, which one do you like? will they deal on the price are not? condition of trailer? something to think about,

Being that your friends have flat bottoms, I would guess you are on a lake or very calm river. If so and you want to go fast for cheap look into a 18-21 foot tunnel. Mirage river racer, Eliminator 19,21, lavey craft - the list goes on. You can get all of these boats for under 20k used of course. All capable of speeds in excess of 100mph. Those small v's want touch that boat in speed

Here's one........get them down in price and you have a hell of a boat. What are you towing with?

HERE

If you plan on running your boat on 2 footers or more, there is no decision. The Scarab will take the big water. One of my first boats was a 21 Scarab (1992), and we ran it on Lake Winnebago over 2 - 3 footers with the wife feeling secure. No offense to the Baja, but the Scarab hull has more glass in it. The 1994 and up hulls are a bit lighter, but still under the eyes of Larry Smith. Another thing to think about is your resale value. I don't think anyone reading this will disagree that the Scarab will bring you a higher resale value when the time comes. The time to upgrade will come sooner than you think. Good luck with your purchase!!

Thanks for your input, I will be towing with a 1996 ford explorer w/ 5.0 v-8. I do like the interior on the baja a lot better. But I hadn't thought about resale value! yes I will be mostly on lakes and rivers. What is chine walk?

You can see CHINE WALK on this video at about the 1 min, 15 second mark.......

HERE IS THE VIDEO

Personaly, I would pick an early model Baja over the Scarab. I beleive the Baja's had more deadrise than the Scarab's.

PhantomCaos - Nice video !!! But the guy should have drove out the chine in that boat.....Wardey

I would take the Pantera without a second thought. Wardey

Chine walk is when the boat is at or close to top speed, when all that is in the water is the prop and the last (2) or so feet of the boat and the craft starts listing to Port and Starboard. Severe conditions of chine walk is wnen the boat lists to Port and Starrboard violently, thus creating the effect of the boat 'walking' from the left to the right. It creates a dangerous conditon that an un-experienced boater may not be able to handle. Most boat manufacturers will not over power a boat because of this situation. You are looking at a Baja and a Scarab. I am going to go out on a limb to say that the Baja that you are looking at buying will chine walk if you have it trimmed out too far, but it will be pretty hard to make the Scarab with a 8' 6" beam walk at all. And even though the Baja is a lighter hull, it will not run faster than the Scarab. Anyone out there, please feel free to comment on this...

Phantom,

NICE display of chine walk. You really redefined the meaning of 'Walk the walk' !!!!

Scarab has 23 degree or better deadrise depending on the year, which is pretty deep for a 22 footer...

I love Scarabs. Worked for the local Scarab dealer when I was a kid and have been around them since the early 80's when the KV's were the SH!T (still love the KV's). However I own a Baja. I run my 24 Baja with my buddy who runs his 38 Scarab in the Pacific Ocean on a regular basis. for some reason people like to bash Baja but it is one hell of a boat and slowly it seems to be earning the respect it deserves. I offer a couple of humle opinions:

-Both are great boats, however I would go with the newer Baja than an older Scarab. Less hours is better, newer boat is better.

-The 454L (carburated) and the EFI 454 are great motors and will push both those boats right at or a little over 60MPH. I had 300 hours on my 454 before I upgrated and it ran flawless. It now belongs to another board member who threw it in his boat and as far as I know it still is running strong.

-Both boat companies are owned by the parent boat company Brunswick, so I would say quality control is the same in both plants. However, I do not know the layup differences between the two.

-The statement "Larry smith has a watchfull eye on the scarab line" is completely false. He lives about 30 minutes from me and has nothing to do with the smaller line of scarabs, or the larger production scarabs for that matter. He leased/sold the name "Scarab" to Wellcraft a long time ago. He works on one off "Larry Smith Scarabs" to this day.

-both boats should have a 21 degree hull. Fine for river/lake running.

-I believe the 22 scarab is measured from swim step to bow. The Baja is measured by the V not including the step. (If someone can correct me on this please feel free).

-Just in case you didn't know. Scarab (Besides limited edition "Larry Smith Scarabs") are no longer in production.

And one last thing on chine walk. In my experience if you trim out any V bottom boat (under 29 feet)too far and have good power to it in a cross wake or confused sea's situation you will see chine walk.

My .02

And just like Oshkoshthunder...Anyone that wishes to comment on this feel free.

Tank

Scarab! Better construction and handling.

I owned a 1985 Scarab 1 which I bought in 1990, Nice lines and fast but not built very well! I'd never own another one after taht. Lots of stress cracks and always needed a screw driver in your pocket to tighten things back up. Baja's put togeather a pretty nice ride but have always heard there a hand full at W.O.T. Than again anything with speed in that size you need to be careful. We just got back into boating last year and bought a Powerquest. Not the fastest thing on the water but what a well built solid boat. Now I just need a larger one.

BAJA all the way....there is no comparison. I was doing the exact same thing you were before I bought my Hammer. I was trying to compare the 2 so I did just that. And just to add another comment.....the 22 Scarab will chine walk just as much as the Baja...I've ridden in both. Here's what I compared....and keep in mind these are my opinions.

Exterior - The Scarab looked cheap to me.....plus the Scarab looks real small when compared to the Baja. The graphics and stuff are much better on the Baja also.

Interior - Baja wins this hands down. All you have to do is look at both of them and you'll see why. I had always looked at exterior photo's of the Scarab and when I finally saw the interior...that sealed the deal for me.....the Scarab was out.

Performance - Both should have the 454 engine...some come with 350's but don't go that route. I got lucky and found a Boss Hammer which has the 454 mag motor......extra hp. Some scarab's have the exact same thing. I have not run a Scarab yet....but I have seen a Hammer and Scarab go at it, both with 454 mag's, the Hammer walked off the Scarab. Now keep in mind I have no idea what props, etc, etc...I just happened to watch it one weekend while boating.

Comparing the 2 boats that you have listed.....get the Baja. 98 with 70 hours for 19.5K is a good deal. A 95 Scarab with 200 hours for 18K is too much...I've seen cheaper on many boat sites for newer models.

Bottom line......compare the 2 boats and see which one you'll be the happiest with. Don't just get one because one's a mag motor and one's not......get a boat that you'll like and that you'll enjoy the most. This might be the Scarab in your book and thats fine......at least you'll be happy. The Baja's are just sharp looking boats and I'm hoping one day to make a purchase on a big Outlaw ;) now we're talkin'.

TANK - And one last thing on chine walk. In my experience if you trim out any V bottom boat (under 29 feet)too far and have good power to it in a cross wake or confused sea's situation you will see chine walk.

I couldn't agree more. The video is proof. Saying that the Baja will chine walk more is just false......both will do it and thats a fact.

SCARAB
 

I vote for Scarab! After having 3 of them (29, 33, 38 ) I can offer some input. The 29 is a fun boat, handles well, jumps waves real nice, etc. The 33 AVS w/ 500efi's was fast (85 mph) and handled real well. The new 38 w/ 575's runs about 80, handles the big water (including offshore in Florida) real well, looks great, has factory air (and soon a generator), and great graphics. The re-sale has always been good on my Scarabs and they sold fairly quickly. There are a few brand new 2002 38's out there at some dealers that can be bought right if anyone is interested!

Hey Mike, I did the same about 2 months ago !!!! Dave

Just dusted a 29' SST a couple of hours ago. It looked nice in my mirror. Bahas are OK, Scarabs rock.

Sea Ya - I've DUSTED more of your HILLBILLEY Scarabs than you know !!!! You toothless inbreeed-in s-o-b !!! And how's your sister or your wife ???? Just kidding....i'm from Bluefield , WV !!! Wardey

I've got a new 2003 18'4" Liberator tunnel that runs 107 mph for $21,300

We're comparing the 22ft's but I'll chime in.

I dusted a 29ft Scarab last week, I don't have a mirror but if I did I bet it looked good in it. Scarabs are ok, Baja's rock.

The heck with our boats....get that Liberator and do 107 all day long ;)

I had a 1995 scarab 22' and loved it. 454 300hp... 68mph.... The 385hp mag would be an awesome setup for that boat.... The boat runs on rails... I never had any experience with chine walking with it... Was not a big water boat, though what 22' would be.... I would chose it over a baja. The one your looking at is too much money... Keep looking, there are more of them around. Good luck....

I have a 2001 Hammer with the 7.4MPI

I had huge problems with chine walk when I first bought it, but it was mostly due to me not knowing WTF I was doing.

With some helm time, I learned to correct it easily enough. With more time I got to the point that it doesn't even occur, nothing to correct. It's something you have to learn to drive through and eventually the problem goes away.

Nice Summation Tank.

I am in the same boat...literally. I have a 24 Baja Outlaw that people used to make fun if (maybe they still do) until I repowered it and started to knock off other boats that I should not be able to even run with, let alone be faster than. I just outran a 25 Daytona Eliminator last weekend in 2-3 foot boat traffic chop. Granted, I am not real pleased with some of Baja's shortcuts (typically on stupid stuff, not on major stuff), but I have been very pleased with this boat. Infact, Iam hoping to get a 33 Outlaw as my next boat.

When it comes down to it, they both will have there advantages and disadvantages, but ultimately you are the one who has to pay the freight, so buy what YOU feel is the best boat. I would say the Baja becasue I have heard many good things about the Hammer, especially as a beginner boat.

Oh yeah...as for my Baja....it won the P5 class race in Cincy a few weeks ago....not too shabby for a boat that people used to make fun of.....:D :D ;)

Whatever you buy, enjoy it!:D

Never been beaten by a Baha. Bring 'em on. The little ones were a nuisance at the Lake Cumberland Poker Run. Probably should be a 27' limit.

Re: SCARAB
 

This input doesnt count! He's not looking at 29s, 33s, or 38s!!

:drool:

Well,
I've got a 1997 26 Scarab. It has run a best of 81 on GPS. It may not be the fastest but I've been complemeted my quite a few people on how it rides. Some of the boats that it was compared to were up to 4 feet longer. It does not chine walk and is very user friendly. Almost anyone can jump in this boat and run as fast as I do. I've never been in a 24 Baja , but the larger ones that I've been in seemed to chine walk quite a bit past the 75mph mark. Now I wasn't driving so it could have been driver error.
These are my opinions but it seems like everyone forget about these Scarabs. I think for the price you get a lot of boat.
Good luck with your choice.

Hey there fella's, back off Allan4. Could it be possible that the Daytona had a stock motor?? 454?
See Ya, That is quite posssibly most egotistical statement I've ever read on this board. I bet guys like Merlin540 and Khadley say the same things about your dumb-ass. Remember, there will always be someone with a bigger and faster boat. I've seen you around the lake, and I'll have to remember that. Oh yeah, your buddy that you run with in the older 26 Scarab, I "dusted" him in that same poker run in my little "nuisance" 25 Outlaw. I'll have to find the video, I might have it on there for ya.

I was thinking the same thing. I bet if he ever had a woman in bed, she'd consider him a "nuisance" for being so little! :chick:

Nice attitude, dickhead. That's one of the lowest things I've ever read on here.

Re: baja vs. scarab?
 

I think they will both work out well for you. I imagine that the Baja may have a little more room in it than the scarab but don't know for sure. I'd probably opt for the Baja due to the hours but it really just depends on how well each one was taken care of. You probably won't go wrong with either

not sure
 

I am not sure about this but.

-Both boat companies are owned by the parent boat company Brunswick

Bayliner is owned by Brunswick - Right? So they should all be built about the same.

Kind of new to all of this.

Brunswich Bankrolls the companies; That does not mean that they have anything in common. They were all indepenant companies before being bought out and still operate as such.

But Baja is owned by Brunswich, Wellcraft(Scarab) is a Genmar company.

CFD5 and Allan4 See you in Cincinatti in three weeks. We can do a side race if you like since you can't enter the poker run in your own city. Sorry

BajaDaze and Teambaja, you can check out my other equipment at www.mine'sbiggerthanyours.com.

I have done the cincy poker run twice, and about that side race, like I said, there will always be someone bigger and faster. I've seen your old ass, and trust me, I'm bigger and faster. Oh, did you mean boat size, sure you've got a bigger and faster boat. Pick on someone your own size, I did and beat the snot out of that 26 Scarab at LC. I've got a few buddies that would be glad to race you.
About the " mines bigger than yours" comment. Check out my avatar, or go to www.sumerset.com, 100' X 20'. Still want to compare size?
One more thing, Cincinnati not Cincinatti.