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Old 08-26-2003, 10:44 AM
  #31
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Mr. Miller,

Rock-it had 1200 hp eickert 572 ci motors, a half cabin and a shower with a stand up head and ran 132 mph. This boat was owned by Bob Russel and he and I raced it for a season in p-1 until they kicked us out of the class and put us in extreme vee because they did not belive a boat that ran over 130 belonged in that class.
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Old 08-26-2003, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by outerlimits
mr. Luhrs,

I take personal offence to the comment that cats run circles around my boats. You should look at the results of the loto shoot out and see how many cats did not run faster than my 42' vee bottom. In no way do I claim that a vee bottom is faster than a cat, there is no need to start that topic. Furthermore we do not only market to people who want big power, we have become a company that has been known for big horsepower because our boats perform well at 100mph plus speeds as well as cruising at 75 mph. I think we are the only company to guarantee 140mph performance in a 42' vee, or 130mph in a fully loaded 51'.
In the end it is up to the client as to which boat suits his or her needs, I would be proud to show my factory and my boats to any perspective client and show why we belive we build a great boat.
And mr. Luhrs, if you have any questions about my company or my boats feel free to call me at 401-253-7300. We have never officialy met but I have watched you as a kid on needle nose race films, I look forward to a proper introduction in the future.

Respectfully,

Mike Fiore
WHAT ABOUT 47 GTX WITH BIG HP STERLINGS....IS THAT GUARANTEED 140MPH? OR DO YOU HAVE TO BUY A 46 SKATER TO GO THAT SPEED WITH THE SAME POWER?
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Old 08-26-2003, 11:25 AM
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A new 47 epoxy gtx with sterling 1450 's is guaranteed to run 140.
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Old 08-26-2003, 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by outerlimits
A new 47 epoxy gtx with sterling 1450 's is guaranteed to run 140.
I GUESS THE EPOXY PART PUTS IT OVER 140.....? WHAT ABOUT THE PREVIOUS 47 GTX'S THAT WERENT EPOXY
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Old 08-26-2003, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by outerlimits
mr. Luhrs,

I take personal offence to the comment that cats run circles around my boats. You should look at the results of the loto shoot out and see how many cats did not run faster than my 42' vee bottom. In no way do I claim that a vee bottom is faster than a cat, there is no need to start that topic. Furthermore we do not only market to people who want big power, we have become a company that has been known for big horsepower because our boats perform well at 100mph plus speeds as well as cruising at 75 mph. I think we are the only company to guarantee 140mph performance in a 42' vee, or 130mph in a fully loaded 51'.
In the end it is up to the client as to which boat suits his or her needs, I would be proud to show my factory and my boats to any perspective client and show why we belive we build a great boat.
And mr. Luhrs, if you have any questions about my company or my boats feel free to call me at 401-253-7300. We have never officialy met but I have watched you as a kid on needle nose race films, I look forward to a proper introduction in the future.

Respectfully,

Mike Fiore
mr. Fiore:

Perhaps we will meet officially someday and I understand you are proud of your product....It is , after all your way of making a living. I will also accept that you don't want this to disintegrate into another cat vs vee thread, since you have acknowledged that cats are faster. That having been said........ It seems that the rest of this thread has to do with selling various products as "the best" or "the fastest" and as you have pointed out that is a personal decision depending on the buyer's taste....or lack thereof.

I have noted , I believe accurately, that OL has a larger than average share of mega horsepower monohulls on the Poker Run circuit...and that is the primary source of "pit buzz" regarding your product at these events. Rock-It is a perfect example...and a fast boat. Racing (as opposed to Poker runs and "exhibition/outlaw classes) to me, however, is about apples to apples in which the consumer can see, and the manufacturers can demonstrate in heads up confrontations, comparisons of various hulls in all kinds of conditions. The most widely recognised "level playing field" is in spec class racing...and OL has not distinguished itself from many other vee hull designs in the single and twin engine factory or super vee classes. No bash intended because as I said......mono hulls...are mono hulls..... after all is said and done...and there are a lot of them at or near state of the art in terms of design and construction.

Cats, to me, are easier to distinguish in that there are far fewer truly top flight manufacturers and a significant difference between the good ones and the bad ones.

I hope you enjoyed the NNRT tapes although I am not sure who "as a kid" was....me or you? I wish you, mr. Fiore, and your enterprise, Outer Limits, as much success as any other respected builder in the performance boating industry.

Rich Luhrs
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Old 08-26-2003, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by outerlimits
Mr. Miller,

Rock-it had 1200 hp eickert 572 ci motors, a half cabin and a shower with a stand up head and ran 132 mph. This boat was owned by Bob Russel and he and I raced it for a season in p-1 until they kicked us out of the class and put us in extreme vee because they did not belive a boat that ran over 130 belonged in that class.
Sorry about that. When I saw it in the pits at the NYC Poker Run a couple years ago someone said it had 1400hp Eickerts, that is why I stated that. I knew it had a half cabin so I included that information as well. It's an awesome boat as are all those that I've seen from you. Didn't state nor imply that the boats are anything other than awesome.

Respectfully,

miller
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:50 PM
  #37
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Unfortunately, this type of discussion is all to familiar in the high performance boating arena. Be it racing, poker running or otherwise. All too often the only way one is able to obtain any significant level of respect among the high performance crowd is by either having raced and succeeded or spent mega dollars. I look at it this way.

From a boat owners perspective: If your boat is running and you are having fun with it, doing what you like, that is what matters. Whether it is a 2003 or 1983, whether it has $100,000 Sterlings, or shade tree mechanic small blocks, is of no importance. What IS important, is that you have FUN, be SAFE, and understand that not everyone can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go boating, but simply being out there and enjoying the sport we all love. To me, whether you are running a little 15 year old 24 Skater with twin 225's like I do, or a million dollar monster like My Way, it should matter not. But having FUN TOGETHER SHOULD! We will each have our preferences in designs, graphics, power, etc. Doesn't make either right or wrong, just different.

From a builders perspective: Are your products built for "safety" and performance and do they handle the water conditions they are designed for in the manner they are advertised to? Are they built using the best products, technology and methods available today in an effort to produce a "safe" and reliable product? Or, do you skimp, cut corners, copy others designs and call them your own in an effort to build them as quickly as possible with the highest margins possible? Do you cover up flaws (such as waves in the gunwales etc) with heavy doses of wild paint and or vinyl? Do you stand behind your product with CONSISTANT QUALITY service? Not just for the guy that bought the biggest fastest boat in the world, but for the hard working Joe that busted his azz to finally purchase his dream machine? These are characteristics that make a boat a quality boat.

I don't think that any one can successfully argue that in the Vee category there are some fantastic builders. Including but certainly not limited to, Outerlimits, Nor-Tech, Formula, Cigarette, Fountain (did I say Fountain j/k of course) Hustler, Apache, Donzi, Active Thunder etc etc etc. However, as T2x said, in the cat category the truly great builders are certainly less in numbers. I.e. Skater, Spectre, Nor-Tech, MTI. You say; toe-may-toe, I say toe-ma-toe, "let's call the whole thing off" and enjoy what each boat has to offer. Arguing whose boat is nicer, faster, better etc. only drives wedges between us.

Surely there will people that each of us will not get a long with. Lord knows, I have a few. Does that make me a bad person? No. Does that make them bad people? NOPE! Just different. There are OSO members that I do not necessarily care for. I know there are members that do not necessarily care for me. BUT! I respect them! Except one from the mid-west who is no longer joining us here on OSO. Like them...not really. Respect them? Absolutely. So let's discuss the differences, draw backs and benefits of different boats, power plants, drive configurations etc, but respect them for what they are. If a manufacturer holds them out to be something they are not, well, then, all bets are off as they brought it on themselves. Then it is time to call a spade a spade.

Using the example of where I made a HUGE error in judgement last week with regard to 2 other OSO members. Was I wrong in what I did? ABSOLUTELY! However, I quickly admitted to it, took my lumps, felt horrible and have subsequently "righted the wrong" with one of the members who is a dear friend. The other member and I, certainly have a personality "issue". I accept that. I wish it were not the case but such is life. I appologized to him here and offered to buy he and his g/f a drink or dinner out of respect and being sorry for my actions which were uncalled for and childish. It is to bad that we differ personality wise as we share many of the same interests and hobbies. However, he did NOT deserve what I did. So I have done my best to acknowledge such and respect him for who he is, what he is, and what he has accomplished personally and professionally.

I hope this long winded post helps to share my perspective on things, that although we will never all agree on everything, we should maintain respect for each other and his or her posessions until we are harmed by someone to a point that others need to be made aware to protect their personal interests. This has been a part of this sport since its inception and some have even been murdered because of it.

Last edited by Shane; 08-26-2003 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:54 PM
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Shane, did you just step into a discussion and make peace???? I'm so confused. I used to be able to count on you stirring things up!!

How are you buddy?
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Old 08-26-2003, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miller
Shane, did you just step into a discussion and make peace???? I'm so confused. I used to be able to count on you stirring things up!!

How are you buddy?
Good Miller, you? I never heard back from you about the 1000 Islands and subsequently my buddy John went with me. Are you not going to London?
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shane
Unfortunately, this type of discussion is all to familiar in the high performance boating arena. Be it racing, poker running or otherwise. All too often the only way one is able to obtain any significant level of respect among the high performance crowd is by either having raced and succeeded or spent mega dollars. I look at it this way.

From a boat owners perspective: If your boat is running and you are having fun with it, doing what you like, that is what matters. Whether it is a 2003 or 1983, whether it has $100,000 Sterlings, or shade tree mechanic small blocks, is of no importance. What IS important, is that you have FUN, be SAFE, and understand that not everyone can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go boating, but simply being out there and enjoying the sport we all love. To me, whether you are running a little 15 year old 24 Skater with twin 225's like I do, or a million dollar monster like My Way, it should matter not. But having FUN TOGETHER SHOULD! We will each have our preferences in designs, graphics, power, etc. Doesn't make either right or wrong, just different.

From a builders perspective: Are your products built for "safety" and performance and do they handle the water conditions they are designed for in the manner they are advertised to? Are they built using the best products, technology and methods available today in an effort to produce a "safe" and reliable product? Or, do you skimp, cut corners, copy others designs and call them your own in an effort to build them as quickly as possible with the highest margins possible? Do you cover up flaws (such as waves in the gunwales etc) with heavy doses of wild paint and or vinyl? Do you stand behind your product with CONSISTANT QUALITY service? Not just for the guy that bought the biggest fastest boat in the world, but for the hard working Joe that busted his azz to finally purchase his dream machine? These are characteristics that make a boat a quality boat.

I don't think that any one can successfully argue that in the Vee category there are some fantastic builders. Including but certainly not limited to, Outerlimits, Nor-Tech, Formula, Cigarette, Fountain (did I say Fountain j/k of course) Hustler, Apache, Donzi, Active Thunder etc etc etc. However, as T2x said, in the cat category the truly great builders are certainly less in numbers. I.e. Skater, Spectre, Nor-Tech, MTI. You say; toe-may-toe, I say toe-ma-toe, "let's call the whole thing off" and enjoy what each boat has to offer. Arguing whose boat is nicer, faster, better etc. only drives wedges between us.

Surely there will people that each of us will not get a long with. Lord knows, I have a few. Does that make me a bad person? No. Does that make them bad people? NOPE! Just different. There are OSO members that I do not necessarily care for. I know there are members that do not necessarily care for me. BUT! I respect them! Except one from the mid-west who is no longer joining us here on OSO. Like them...not really. Respect them? Absolutely. So let's discuss the differences, draw backs and benefits of different boats, power plants, drive configurations etc, but respect them for what they are. If a manufacturer holds them out to be something they are not, well, then, all bets are off as they brought it on themselves. Then it is time to call a spade a spade.

Using the example of where I made a HUGE error in judgement last week with regard to 2 other OSO members. Was I wrong in what I did? ABSOLUTELY! However, I quickly admitted to it, took my lumps, felt horrible and have subsequently "righted the wrong" with one of the members who is a dear friend. The other member and I, certainly have a personality "issue". I accept that. I wish it were not the case but such is life. I appologized to him here and offered to buy he and his g/f a drink or dinner out of respect and being sorry for my actions which were uncalled for and childish. It is to bad that we differ personality wise as we share many of the same interests and hobbies. However, he did NOT deserve what I did. So I have done my best to acknowledge such and respect him for who he is, what he is, and what he has accomplished personally and professionally.

I hope this long winded post helps to share my perspective on things, that although we will never all agree on everything, we should maintain respect for each other and his or her posessions until we are harmed by someone to a point that others need to be made aware to protect their personal interests. This has been a part of this sport since its inception and some have even been murdered because of it.
Very well put
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