Cig-Fountain-Apache
 

Honestly, not trying to start a rumble, just trying to get a little educated before the purchase. I've read volumes about the veracity of Cigarette and Apache in the rough stuff....and the speed of Fountain hulls.....however, I haven't seen much about how well Fountains handle rough water. Any imput about how well Fountains can play in rough water along side the other two?

Tick...tick... tick... :D

Oh boy what a can of worms this is going to turn into but what the hell here it goes.

I have sold all 3 brands for years

Fountain definitely faster of the 3 but take it out in the rough you better bring some tools with you to tighten up the fluff in the cabin. It rides a little rougher due to the pad and 23 degree dead rise. I personally liked the quality of the product in the late eighties and upto the mid nineties. Since then it really has become more of a production line boat and some of the QA may have slipped a bit but still alot of bang for the buck. On a lake they will perform very, very good take them out into 6' + stuff and you will definitely feel the difference it also has a lot less freeboard than the other two.

Apache.....enough said I am very partial to them.

Cigarette....enough said great boats watch the TS in the turns.

Sean

Ok I am ready for the onslaught I have my battle gear on ( rain slickers ) for the sh** that is about to come. Sorry bros I still think the F-Boat is great!!!!!

Apache--well built,very heavy,need lots of power to move,that's why they are great in rough water-WEIGHT!!

Cigarette--great in rough water,not that heavy but still needs good power or go to stepped-bottom for speed but you may loss it in the rough water

Fountain--stepped-bottom great in calm water and fast,but not the first choice in rough water

i too have sold all three boats since the mid 80's
i agree with sean 100 per cent. and just to add
i like the older non stepped cigs the best. he is
right about the high speed turns. i think the
quality was better pre 2001. powerplay is a
good boat as well and is in that league.:cool:

I have a 33 Donzi center console and it rides very well i 4 footers....I am looking to move to a different category boat and considering the three in 38-41 length. I do not read much about durability of the Fountain or how it handle rough stuff. Just looking to get informed.

donz i will stop by say hi next week.

cya lucy..........

lookin' forward to it lucy, also waiting to see who shows up on the 15th!

Sometimes a rumble can be started without trying. For real, it's a vast subject but I think Fountains handle the rough stuff admirably well. This sort of thread was discussed hundreds of times on OSO and it always resulted in pretty much the same conclusion: every boat is a compromise in some way. So maybe a Fountain is more speed-oriented, a bit lighter and with more aggressive hull design parameters than the other two which means that in exchange it has to be a bit less comfy in the rough stuff. But from my experience, I can tell you that we're far from being able to say that a Fountain is all speed and no rough water handling. It is perfectly capable in the rough. And if you want my opinion, I think that a Fountain will be just as capable as the other two and that the difference will be in terms of how the boat "feels" in the rough. And we all know that this "feeling" is a very subjective thing. The best advice anybody can give is to go and test all three manufacturers' products and judge whose "feeling" and dynamic behaviour you really like. However, I feel that an important point is linked to your question: never test a boat in flat water conditions, that will not tell you much at all.

My step bottom Top Gun handles rough water VERY well. Whomever tells you they don't is full of $hit.

I have not been in a lot of Fountains, but the ones I have been in don't feel nearly as stable in the rough. My.02

I hear a lot about the mid 80s hulls being somewhat better than the new stepped hulls in Cig and Apache...maybe 80s hull with new sci's??????


what ya think

Better in what way??? My boat has run 81.3 on gps in fresh water with 1/2 tanks and a few hundred pounds of gear, and 80 in the salt with full tanks and 4 people.

I ran the boat in a poker run in 8-10' swells and was the second to finish behind a 42 Tiger.

It has been an awesome boat.

BTW: This is with stock 500 efi's.

I meant better in handling than stepped, obviously not faster hull for hull, the step has an advantage ther over non-stepped....

Havasu, do you find the hull loose in the turns? That is what I am concerned about in the newer stepped hulls.

I just called the bomb squad and they said that those mentioned are all fine products worthy of consideration but that all boats are compromises in some way so they have slightly different characteristics but none completely "sucks" in any situation you're likely to encounter...

seems to be a tougher call between Cig Gun and 41 Apache......I just don't see that many Fountains in the rough stuff.......

come to think of it, every time I see Reggie in one of his ads with his hair fighting to get out of his hairspray net...the water beneath the hull seems like glass....hmm

I have had both old and new Cigarettes.

I have heard, and even have a good friend who has been thrown from a T/S. I just don't see how though without SOME driver error, which my friend admits. ( I don't mean you Sean, different circumstances)

If you trim all the way in and try to turn hard, you might get tossed. This is not how stepped boats are meant to be driven though. I can turn the hell out of my T/S, with the proper trim. I would NEVER try to crank the wheel at top speed, but I wouldn't do this in any boat.

I have tons of seat time in both, and I find the T/S to handle much better, and perform in rough water better than the classic hull. My old one was so fun for so many reasons. It took BIG power to run though.

The T/S is much more efficient. I ran pretty hard to Key West (160 miles approx.) I burned 1/2 a tank the entire way. (Zul 625's)

cigracer,

where are you located? 160 miles to Key West means you are in Miami?

What kind of turns are you concerned with? Do you intend to race and make high speed 90 degree turns around a pylon? Just asking because I've never had to turn a corner at high speed while on a lunch run or poker run. I have been in a T/S Gun and a Gladiator while making a relatively hard pleasure turn without any slippage or funny stuff.

G

My place is in Lauderdale, but we left from Miami (Government cut). Great ride.

cig1

neither, ............I admit I have little experience in this category boat, I am listening to others talk and want to get informed before purchasing, it is difficult to get significant drive time in one of these boats before buying and thus I cannot make my own comparisons....I am trying to get the benefit of others' experience.....knowing me, I will like to push the envelope a little and perhaps enter some races down the line.......I am trying to quantify the statements

cigracer,

I am in Keystone Point, I go out Haulover to my place in Tavernier...dock to dock it takes me about 75 gallons....two very thirsty 250 EFI mercs......must be a blast to Key West!

dont stop now i am taking notes!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

So much fun. I like Haulover because I can just zip into Lip-Ship/Spinnaker and have little to no idle. Awesome!

sorry, just had my teeth cleaned and a cracked tooth fixed....I am still a little numb

yeah, I just moved into the neighborhood and spend a lot of time at Spinnaker....nice rides there

:D :D :D

donz what about the house next door?

owner passed away and niece inherited it:

4/3, pool, 2-car garage, small dock, but no lift.......nice condition but needs a little upgrading....about 3,000 sf.....asking $625K.......with what's happening in the neighborhood, could be a good deal

you can keep Lucys Special on my new 14,000lbs lift:D

Frank

running late at work. wont be in miami tll wed. pm.12-17. be at spinnaker thurs. hope to see you there frank.

Ditto, I have never had any anything happen while turning, and i have turned it relatively hard. I do not trim the drives down while turning.

definitely look forward to seeing you there......

Re: Cig-Fountain-Apache
 

Enough said! :D:D:D

ah, let me guess GLH, you vote for......Bayliner

They don't make them like they used to.

B4M,

what power do you have in there?

800SC's

very nice! enjoy