28 OFFSHORE
 

I spent 12 hours detailing a 28 SABER yesterday and was very impressed with the way they are built. If I was to buy a 28 I would look for a SABER , PANTERA or an APACHE all of which are hard to come by since they are custom built, low production,high quality rides.

Re: Re: Re: Nice First Post !
 

Pretty Bold Statement. Willing to put any money on that? I personally would throw $10,000 on Brent in rough water anyday. I know Saber makes one hell of a boat, but to say NO boats in the same category is bold.

Maybe we could stage a showdown up at the Poker Run up there? Last I heard Glassdave finished second or third out of 100 or so boats when it got rough. In only our 24 One Design with a Small block?

[email protected]

Okay Boys, Todd35 made a mistake and owned up to it. Let's cut him some slack and educate him on some of the finer points of Offshore Boats.
Welcome to the board. You have survived the hazing.
Russ Withiam

28' Powerplays Are Not Around...
 

Because they only built as many as you can count on one hand, total production!!! And the last time one was built, was almost ten years ago!!! Nor does powerplay want to build them...They are only interested in bigger boats & $$$. Ed:rolleyes:

It's Not The Same Catagory
 

Lets see, a typical weekend for Dan ( Buzzin Bye) would be to blast over to the Erie islands, pull out the coolers, crank up the tunes and entertain three or four of us while the girls got some rays on the sunpad, then he and his wife would spend the night in the cabin. Are ya still thinking you're in the same catagory ? I don't think so ;) As far as Glassdave ever spanking Dan, I don't remember it ( if i'm wrong Dave let me know) I do know that I never ever saw or heard of another 28' boat getting by Dan in a chop and we're are talking about years of others trying.

As I've said many times your stuff is amazing BUT it's barely a boat, more like a freak'n missile. :D

i remember my fisrt post. supercrash jumped me for no reason except to give me a hard time.
what ever happened to him? i never got payback:)

whats a 28 saber weigh?

Is it safe to say that a 28' Bat will spank any other 28' in the rough? Not talking about amenities here.

Not trying to start chit, I've never been in a Bat boat... but I am very curious about them.

Re: 28 OFFSHORE
 

Hey Nykamp, I see you are sporting an Apache badge, did you find another one. I've been off this site for a while. Did you sell that other engine buddy was build for you out of fathers old 36? Did I tell you they came back to get Fathers new 36' two months after they stole yours? Phucking thieves have balls!

I fact there was a 38 special taken from a buddy of mines house just down the road from me in the middle of the day. Probably the same guys.

Anyways, back the topic. A boats performance in the rough water has more to do with the driver than the hull. especially a 28 foot length hull. A less experience driver will like a big heavy boat because less effort is needed to run her in the rough well. But if you can really run well (like we all think we can) you can stay with some of the bigger boys,who run the same speed, without beating up on yours. Or breaking a drive.

Just decide what is most important, like cabin room,or number of people the boat can seat, speed you want, color and graphics, for example. If you are strictly racing, just look at some of the APBA boats that run. If you will be weekending, then amenities are an issue. These are my thoughts.

Re: Re: 28 OFFSHORE
 

That sucks!!! Where do you guys live? Time to move???:eureka:

Without a doubt the Cig. 28ss
My .02 :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nice First Post !
 

:D :D only problem was LEOPAJM (Jerry M) was one of the boats we couldnt catch. :crazy: we did in fact pass Dan but i think he was going easy on his passangers. it was very rough. also remember seeing him raise his throttle hand and shake off a cramp as we went by :D . he had two sticks to my one and it was a busy throttle day. we took the beating and had a great time. there were 3 boats ahead of us coming up the river JM and his saber MadCow and his 42sonic and some other boat i cant remember right now. (once again Chris sorry bout the boat, i know a good glassman :D )

we need to do a run in the 28 Batboat:D :cool:


i love these "my boat is faster/better than yer boat" threads. . . . i like em all :D :cool: :cool:

oh . . . just for the record. my favorite rough water 28 is a toss up between the 28Bat or a Magnum Sport. to each his own, eh :cool: :cool: :cool:


ss930- what part of the country are you in. Chris is great about giving rides in the boats. the 28 has a ride you just hafta experiance. it dosent "feel" like any other kinda boat. :cool:

Dave,
I'm in CT. I've never seen one around here. I'm a cat guy, but I'm casually starting to think about getting a smaller vee (28'-32')... insurance is a killer on the cat. I'm intrigued by the BB since it appears to be a hybrid of the vee/cat. My major concerns with my next vee is big water handling, then speed, then cost. I don't think I'm going new (unless the deal is RIGHT) for resale reasons. I'm considering a 30' Y2K Superboat because I like the 7' beam (better in the rough and faster than 8'/8'6"). I've never seen a used BB before, but I am open to the idea if I find a nice one for the right money. Either way I don't want my next boat to be any slower than 85 mph... having a cat spoils you.;)

Re: It's Not The Same Catagory
 

That says it all, doesn't it? I'm not going to make any great claims, because I don't have any real experience in any 28-footers other than my BatBoat. I will say that we were 14th overall out of 120 or so at 1000 Islands in 1999, second only to a 388 Hustler with 2500 hp in Barnegat Bay in 2000, and started about 60th at this years Tome's Landing Run, but were 7th at the third stop. In both cases, everything in front of us had two engines, was over 32' and either a cat or a supercharged vee. I don't profess to be any great driver, so there must be something to the design.

Hard to find for $50k or less, though....

Anyone here is welcome for a demo ride if you're ever in the Northeast. You tell me.

Miller, Shane, DaveP, Craig223, Shanghaied Again, George Linder and others have been for a ride - ask them.

Re: Re: It's Not The Same Catagory
 

Please look me up if you are ever coming through CT with the "lawn dart"!

Re: Re: Nice First Post !
 

If the value of a 28 is down right now, ( along with top guns among others if anyone is watching) then it seems to me that it's a better value not worse. How much lower will they go? My 28 cigarette is coming up. At some point well built boats reach bottom and go no lower. $40k for a 28 saber, if there are any around for that w/o outboards, is a really good value for anyone that has spent anytime in one in rough water. Thanks for the apology. You didn't hurt our feelings, just insulted our intelligence. :) NK

In another thread someone posted that they would kick an apache's ass in a 28 bat boat in big water. BTW 41' apache :o

Not to hurt anyones feelings or start an argument but why does it seem people think bat boats are immune from the problem all other 24 and 28' offshore boats suffer from in big water? Lack of length and weight. Remember boys, size matters.:D NK

I knew I'd hear from the Batboys !!!
 

Notice the little reference to "category":D ... as WW so astutely pointed out as well . The Batboats are very cool , however ... it's a different animal all together. There are a few guys up here that might surprise you though ...;)

JM

BTW .........
 

I would like to try my hand on a Batboat someday !!!

JM

That's a bold statement!

Anyone in CT have one I can catch a ride in???

What makes them so good in the rough?

Well then .... I guess I "need not reply" then . There is one hitch in your statement however ... Part of the equation to running a smaller (28 or ???) boat in rough water is Having BALLS enough to let her rip !!! The boat don't drive itself . You better not have some candy azz runnin that Batboat up against any "28' boat, cat or V"

Right dude ?;)

OK .... Here we go ......

who wants to let me "borrow" their 28 for a weekend this summer ?????

:rolleyes:

you can borrow mine as long as you drop in enough power to outrun a batboat ..............and leave it in when your done ;)

I'm convinced that it's the aerodynamics. I know from experience that they are VERY resistant to pitching either up or down. That doesn't mean that you can't get one out of shape - It's just hard to do, and the boat tends to self-correct. By staying flat, it's easier to keep on the throttle. Running them with a DPX at a low X-dimension helps keep the power hooked up, too. The picture below seems pretty dramatic evidence (not necessarily "proof") of this inherent stability. (Yeah, yeah - I KNOW that's a 24 and not a 28, but that just makes my point even stronger.) Does ANYONE have a picture of a BatBoat flying either nose-up or nose-down? Maybe they're not "immune", but they are certainly "resistant" to "the problem".

MrOffshore - I knew I could count on you for the bold statements. ;)

Nice looking boat - very, very sweet. What power?

The 26 Sutphen really hasn't been mentioned but they seem to do just fine in comparison to other 26-30' boats when the water gets a little nasty.

Based on the Avon boat, I'd say that's probably in the right ballpark. Maybe 1-3 mph on the optimistic side.

LOVE THE ALL WHITE!

Bob, stop living in the past.You have a 39 Sutphen with huge Eickert power.You cant play with the little guys anymore :p :D Go fight with someone your own size;)

I just realized that boat has a SINGLE HP600... no way IMHO. I was thinking twins, my bad.

Good 24 Bat Boat pic from Cumberland last year.

I love the 28 Pantera, that to me is one of the best looking and well built boat out there, and one that I would own in a hearbeat. It would be a great P5 or P4 boat I think as well. Having said that, I am pretty confident in the info these guys are sharing about the 28 batboat out running other 28's. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything like that, but they are unreal rough water boats....fast too.

Warpaint I hear ya! I'll bet ol' Ike also hears ya. No doubt he's thinkin he had better get a ride our he will also be livin' in the past....actually riding in the past as your co-pilot! Get the motor man to crank up the dyno with the new monsters so they do real nice for Mr. Ex-Warparty! I think it would only be right if he rode with you this year in Tony's Poker Run!

I would be honored to let Ike throttle the 28 one last time.Paybacks are a bit$h.You and i should both be worried:eek: I bet he busts out into summer 004 with another sick A----;) :crazy:

This is not boy scouts.It is a tribe:p

OK - Not every landing is perfect. But at least it was still pretty flat when it hit.....

Yellowbird - Looks to me like you're zeroing in on a pretty good choice for what you specified. Lots of good suggestions in this thread. What about Warlock's? They did real well in the first few years of Factory 1.....

Wow!!!!!! What have I been missing?!?!?!
I guess it is time to clear the air here.

The 28 Saber is an awesome offshore rig! I put 400 hard hours on this boat without even a sign of a stress crack anywhere. It always handled great and never did anything stupid. I would put it up against any vee bottom in the 28 to 32 range.

Powerguy, I have a friend that runs a 29 fountain with twin 525's (non-step). He will tell you that our boats run excactly the same speed in smooth water, and I will walk him as soon as the water kicks up. We have both ridden in each others boats when it was choppy and we both agree that the Saber feels much more secure.

The Pantera is also an awesome offshore rig. The only thing I liked more about the saber is that it has more freeboard, but maintains a flat deck for a very cool look. The freeboard issue also applies to the 28 cigarette.

Powerguy, you cannot go wrong with the saber and the support from the factory is excellent. It is true that the are not as well known as some of the others, but those that know the quality of a saber will pay the money. I had mine for sale for awhile, but was asking a pretty lofty price because I wasn't pressed to sell the boat. I used it the whole time it was for sale and loved every minute of it.

The only reason we sold it is because Miss Buzzin Bye had enough of 80 mph poker runs in a 28. So now we have a 38 Top Gun and go slow, But we frequent WickedWon's Saber for real gofast poker runs. I hope this info is useful good luck on your search. Contact me with any questions about the saber, I know the 28's inside and out.

Glassdave and Chris, It is true that dave did go around us on the second leg of the Leopa poker run and he is right that I was taking it easy on the passengers. The difference was not the speed or handling of rough water it is the fact that we were in very rough water with an open cockpit and 2 bolsters and a bench seat (not very safe). Dave was in an enclosed canopy boat strapped into the seats with a 5 point harness (very safe). I rode in that bat boat the very same day on one of the breaks between legs. It was very impressive, but also is purpose-built boat. And by the way, you still get wet when that pointy nose dives into the bottom of a wave and water rushes through the bow air inlets.
:D :p

Lotoparty, Saber specs.

LOA 28'1"
beam 7'10"
weight 6200# with twin 500's


And as for you Todd35, your being stupid! At least get your facts straight before you make some false claims about somebody else's boat:rolleyes: I traded that boat in and did a lot better than your stated number!!
Ohh and by the way Craig@Martin had a customer waiting for my boat when it arrived at his shop to be traded in. The guy test drove it and bought it that very day! And I am sure he paid more for it than what I traded in for! That guy was out boating on the intercoastal with my saber before my Cig even made it back home to me!!

Dan (formerly Buzzin Bye)

great pic c-spray :cool: :cool: dont try this in your open boat guys :D :D we stuffed a few times in keywest this year. was a blast :D :D . just keep right on go'n. if ya aint go'n over it . . yer go'n through it :eek: :eek: . think i even saw a fish one time ;)

hey Dan . . .we we're just look'n for somebody to hassle on here and you werent avaliable to defend yourself :D :D :D :D


you should know to chek in more often
:p :p :D :D

I guess so!!!! That'll teach me!

Photo of the Saber heading to Florida and a new home

Saber 28
 

Hey guys,

My name is Lance Sonneveldt. I have always read the forums with interest but have never participated. Most of you know more about the boats and the state of powerboating than I. I only add the following because I have had some experience with the Saber 28.

I was part owner and driver of A-17 Wave Hippie. We ran production class in the APBA from 1990 - 1993. I drove, Matt Kihnke was throttle and Doug Popma was navigator. We ran a Saber 28 back then. We were based out of Grand Haven, MI. The Saber boys had produced 2 outboard race boats before ours but I think the Wave Hippie was the first inboard race boat. We ran a pair of production small blocks with Bravo drives (one of the first race boats to be rigged with Bravos). 1990 was our first year and we only ran 3 races. We went through quite a few drives the first year until the shims in the upper cases got straightened out. We ran 11 races in 91' including the Central Division and all National events that year. We won 7 of 11 races taking home the National high points championship for all of APBA including all classes that year. And for those that might assume there was no competition in that class, the boat that took second in the National High Points Championship for APBA was "Ken's Oil", a 28 Magnum with production small blocks and Alphas with speedmaster lowers. He ran the same class as us (Production A) in the same division (Central) and also ran all the national events. Kenny was a fierce competitor and had an amazingly fast boat.

We also took the Central Division championship and Great Lakes Trophy Series Championship that year. We were inducted into the Hall of Champions at the end of the year.

We took 1992 off and came back in 1993 only to run the Great Lakes Trophy series which we won.

I tell you this only to let you know that we, as a team, ran the Saber harder than anyone I have known. I sometimes wonder how we stayed alive. We stuffed it, ripped the drives of the back of it, had the rubrail under water, been thrown out of it during races and watched two inch ripples run up the deck from slamming it so hard. I also remember having Doug get out of the boat on one occasion with blood pouring out of is mouth. With the hundreds of hours of testing and racing abuse the boat held strong. We cracked the main bulkhead in 1990 at Port Huron which had 5 - 7 footers. The factory immediately fixed it at no cost and never broke anything else.

The Saber 28 is a fine offshore powerboat. It runs well with twins. Of course we didn't run an interior but for numbers sake the boat ran 82MPH on radar with twin 350 c.i. small blocks making 400 HP each. That was in race trim with the right water and light fuel. It would run 77 with any set up. We didn't run standoff boxes (they weren't built yet for the bravo) but the X was real high, the boat barely came on plane. The boat was fastest with Intimidator 4 blades with solid hubs, I'm sorry I don't recall the pitch. 1.5 to 1 gear ratio at 6000 RPM. Rough water props were Merc Bravo's with lab finish and extra cup. There was 2 MPH difference between the intimidators and the Merc Bravos props.

The last race we ran with the boat was Detroit in 1993. We had a fresh rebuild on both engines and both motors started loosing oil pressure on the second lap. We retired the old girl on the third lap with two hurt motors. We sold the boat, as it was, for 28 G's. Not a bad resale value for an old, beat up race boat. The boat sold to the owner of a marina in Grand Haven. He used the boat over the next few years to give rides to people for customer relations and such. After that it sold to a young local guy who ran it for two seasons I believe. From there I don't know what happened to it. I do know that everyone who ever owned the Wave Hippie considered it an outstanding offshore powerboat.

I hope this helps the individual who was considering a Saber. I realize resale is an issue when purchasing a toy with disposable income but in most cases it seems better to purchase something you know will bring a smile to your face when you turn the key than to compromise for better resale. For me, I remember having a huge grin every time I lit the ignition on our Saber.