View Poll Results: What would you feel safer in at 120 MPH
Deep V - i.e. (Outerlimits,Cig Maximus,Fountain)
119
37.78%
Cat - i.e (Skater, MTI,Spectre,Nor Tech)
196
62.22%
Voters: 315. You may not vote on this poll
Whats Safer at 120 - V or Cat
02-04-2004, 11:27 AM
#42
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Originally posted by Ron P
We didn't go over because of chine walking. We went around a turn too hard and the boat spun out and flipped.
I prefer to think of it as stupidity on the driver's part and I might have been holding the sticks down a bit too much for the conditions in the harbor turn.
Chalk it up to inexperience and the desire to win not poor hull design.
We didn't go over because of chine walking. We went around a turn too hard and the boat spun out and flipped.
I prefer to think of it as stupidity on the driver's part and I might have been holding the sticks down a bit too much for the conditions in the harbor turn.
Chalk it up to inexperience and the desire to win not poor hull design.
Actually......
You rolled over on your outward chine....ipso facto....chine walk..... you simply went over on the first step in that particular walk.
We also have NNRT's first video of Joey Ippolito chine walking over in 1978...in the Michelob light Cigarette.
T2x
02-04-2004, 11:36 AM
#43
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Originally posted by KiloKat
With the sincerest respect for those affected by any boating accident, I would like to address a couple of questions posted here. Most accidents involving cats do not involve a blowover. Rather, they can land wrong (sponson first), hook, then rollover.
With the sincerest respect for those affected by any boating accident, I would like to address a couple of questions posted here. Most accidents involving cats do not involve a blowover. Rather, they can land wrong (sponson first), hook, then rollover.
Exactly.
Just Once,
No argument here my friend. I enjoy these discussions until they become arguments. A well built cat like a Skater, Spectre, Nor-Tech, MTI etc will run in the rough or calm water more efficiently, more stable and faster than a comparably powered and sized vee bottom. When running 120, 130, 140, 150 and on, CLEARLY accidents CAN and DO happen. No one will dispute that. NO ONE on here is is in a better position to discuss this than KiloKat, Johnny T, 46tomcat, Tres et al. These are all gentlemen that have run at these speeds for extended periods of time. I have not. I have extensive experience running in the low 100's in boats (all cats) from 24 to 36 feet in length. I believe I can speak on the topic not only from experience but also from a fairly technical understanding. Again, ANY boat regardless if it is a vee or a cat, if not operated as designed can experience a theatrical ride that may result in horrific consequences. Regardless of boat, unusual and unexpected things happen and unfortunately tragedy can be the result. That is the nature of HP boating. But when speaking of speeds in the 120 MPH area, physics and engineering will clearly dictate the pitch, roll and yaw stability of cats like Skater, Spectre, Nor-Tech, MTI etc are far safer than a vee of comparable length and power.
02-04-2004, 11:37 AM
#44
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I do not have the expertise of many on this thread, but with my limited experience (including 100mph+ cat rides with the famed T2x and equally infamous Shane as well as 100mph+ rides in both Fountains and Outerlimits), I would rather be in a WELL-DESIGNED CAT at 100mph+ than a WELL-DESIGNED VEE. But, I will take a good hull design, that is well built and rigged (meaning that the CG is where it was designed to be and the setup is proper for the conditions) and not be stuck with one particular hull style or another.
In other words, I'd rather run in a 40 Skater at 140mph than a 42 Outerlimits simply because I like the cat ride characteristics. But, I'd also rather be in a 37 Outerlimits at 110mph than in a 26 Firefox at the same speed. That's just my opinion.
Also, I think it important to remember that in pushing any boat to its limits, the safety of the occupants comes down more to the skill and diligence of the driver than it does to the particular hull in question (again assuming it's a hull designed to run at high speed and is built for the conditions).
In other words, I'd rather run in a 40 Skater at 140mph than a 42 Outerlimits simply because I like the cat ride characteristics. But, I'd also rather be in a 37 Outerlimits at 110mph than in a 26 Firefox at the same speed. That's just my opinion.
Also, I think it important to remember that in pushing any boat to its limits, the safety of the occupants comes down more to the skill and diligence of the driver than it does to the particular hull in question (again assuming it's a hull designed to run at high speed and is built for the conditions).
02-04-2004, 11:41 AM
#45
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Bottom line.....as previously stated.....
Cats cruise at considerably faster speeds than vees.
In Poker Runs...the fastest cats...beat the fastest vees
The average cats....beat the average vees
etc.....
The comparison is flawed in that to the idle viewer if cats go over x times more often than vees per million miles....... the unspoken variable is speed.
Cats cruise faster than most vees top out at. In the Poker Run in Maryland in September the group started the cats last and we had to pass through the entire vee fleet....by end of day. That made no sense and created hazardous conditions...(I had to cross 30 plus vee wakes singly and in bunches....in a 28 Skater which was one of the smallest boats in the event)..... We spent the entire event at least 400 yards offshore of the main fleet...to drive around them. If I had stuffed....would I have been a "cat not handling rough water properly" while a fleet of mostly larger vees cruised along averaging 20 mph less speed? In the minds and mouths of vee bottom builders and owners...probably. But in reality..... I could have run 65 mph....from the start and stayed right with the main vee fleet....and been safer and more nimble than any of them......
Overall most vees become somewhat unstable at 75-85.....and cats get tricky at about 100-110...... If your boat is larger, or seas are rougher these numbers may rise or fall.......depending on the variables....
Does that mean that vees can't be pushed to record speeds of 150 or so?.....no.
And cats have posted speeds in excess of 200......
but the ratio remains pretty constant all through the food chain.
T2x
Cats cruise at considerably faster speeds than vees.
In Poker Runs...the fastest cats...beat the fastest vees
The average cats....beat the average vees
etc.....
The comparison is flawed in that to the idle viewer if cats go over x times more often than vees per million miles....... the unspoken variable is speed.
Cats cruise faster than most vees top out at. In the Poker Run in Maryland in September the group started the cats last and we had to pass through the entire vee fleet....by end of day. That made no sense and created hazardous conditions...(I had to cross 30 plus vee wakes singly and in bunches....in a 28 Skater which was one of the smallest boats in the event)..... We spent the entire event at least 400 yards offshore of the main fleet...to drive around them. If I had stuffed....would I have been a "cat not handling rough water properly" while a fleet of mostly larger vees cruised along averaging 20 mph less speed? In the minds and mouths of vee bottom builders and owners...probably. But in reality..... I could have run 65 mph....from the start and stayed right with the main vee fleet....and been safer and more nimble than any of them......
Overall most vees become somewhat unstable at 75-85.....and cats get tricky at about 100-110...... If your boat is larger, or seas are rougher these numbers may rise or fall.......depending on the variables....
Does that mean that vees can't be pushed to record speeds of 150 or so?.....no.
And cats have posted speeds in excess of 200......
but the ratio remains pretty constant all through the food chain.
T2x
02-04-2004, 11:46 AM
#46
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Originally posted by KiloKat
When I grow up I want to be able to remember facts like T2x does! Very, very impressive.
Also T2x, I believe these occurred in both flat and rough conditions.
When I grow up I want to be able to remember facts like T2x does! Very, very impressive.
Also T2x, I believe these occurred in both flat and rough conditions.
T2x
02-04-2004, 11:48 AM
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The Kitty........ All The Way
Cats just feel more stable. For the last 4 years I could not understand why all these guys were buying cats. After riding in a 32 Skater, I bought a 36 Spectre four months later. Im not sure if I would ever purchase another V bottom. The cat just out performs the V all the way around. IMO
Just My .02
3DO
Cats just feel more stable. For the last 4 years I could not understand why all these guys were buying cats. After riding in a 32 Skater, I bought a 36 Spectre four months later. Im not sure if I would ever purchase another V bottom. The cat just out performs the V all the way around. IMO
Just My .02
3DO
02-04-2004, 11:53 AM
#49
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I agree with everything said here but how many cats have blown over.
Now let me ask this, in the hands of the average boater, one guy doing the driving and throttling his boat can go 110 mph, water is always changing what boat is safer 37 Outerlimits or 36 Skater?
Now let me ask this, in the hands of the average boater, one guy doing the driving and throttling his boat can go 110 mph, water is always changing what boat is safer 37 Outerlimits or 36 Skater?
02-04-2004, 11:55 AM
#50
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I'd rather be in a large Cat at 120+ than a large Vee.
I have been in tons of Cats big and small and the same with Vee's. The Cats with their wider beam feel more stable at 120+.
I have been in tons of Cats big and small and the same with Vee's. The Cats with their wider beam feel more stable at 120+.
