Stepp
 

Interesting stuff:

In 1978, Steve Stepp created the Velocity with the world’s first offshore pad bottom hull and Stepp transom. This design allows a boat to plane quicker, reach higher top speeds, and turn sharper than conventionally designed boats. As evidence of the remarkable innovation of the Stepp design, every major race and pleasure boat manufacturer is now using some part of Steve’s original design. Stepp has improved on his original innovation, and todays Velocity’s use a modified design that continues to make them the most advanced on the market. A base model Velocity runs 10% faster and gets 10% better gas mileage than similar boats produced by the competition.

The most demanding and grueling test center in the world is the offshore racing circuit. There simply is no better place to test a boat’s speed, handling, endurance, construction, and rough water capability than in offshore racing conditions. Any vessel that has not been through this is just a boat that floats. At Initial Marine Corp., every model is designed, tested, and re-tested on the race course to achieve maximum performance and safety.

Consequently, the model you purchase will perform effortlessly throughout the entire range of speeds and water conditions with maximum comfort. Velocity is the world record holder of E & F1 class, outrunning the step or ventilated bottom boats with the same horsepower.

...were very efficient....still around..I don't hear much about them...greta boat from what a friend of mine says.

I love mine in all water conditions.

INTERESTING.

?????

I have seen some of his quotes in magazines slamming step bottom hulls.

I will have to look through some back issues, but I don't believe the 39' runs as fast as the faster step bottomed boats in the class.

Some others could probably chime in with some #'s here???

Stepp boats didn't catch on in the 70's...the stepped Nova 28' Wellcraft never sold...I think a couple old Apache's had steps....then Reggie FOuntain did his 'pad bottom" designed 10 meter and nobody could keep up efficiency wise..and when he went to steps and the pad...everybody and their brother jumped into steps because he was doing 10-20mph faster and everybody saw the advantages and nobody ever looked back...so I did the research and whereas Reggie didn't invent steps ...he got other's attention bigtime....and he DID do the steps right....so my hats off...Fountain did in that regard revolutionize the HP Powerboating industry and credit where credit is due....those old airplane "steps" were for a softer landing not to get the plane up guys...cause that always comes up...I try to be fair...lots of botas I like for lots of reasons...but this one is for Reggie

Havasu cig I have been running a 390 velocity for a long time . I do 14=18 poker runs a year. The only boat that ever hung with me with the same power (500 efis)was a 32 phantom. I have ran them all, and most of you out there know me. We went to the New York city poker run and ran I thing damn near every brand of boat out there and left them all but a phantom. That Phantom was twisted stix. My 390 waighs 10,200# and runs a real no bs 84-86. Well it did before we redid the power.

That is a damn good speed for 500's, I have seen 81.3 in our Gun with 500's, but heavy on fuel ect... I would like to get some weight out of the boat sometime and see if I can pick up a couple MPH.:cool:

Velocity was the first V bottom to break the 100 mph mark. I'm really happy with my 41.

Yup and I'd say some old guy owns one. ;)

Steve Stepp Was Involved...
 

In O.P.C.(outboard performance craft) racing in the sixties & early seventies like a lot of us were. He raced in "F" class, etc...in step/pad bottom Critchfield's, Allisons, etc...racing against step/pad bottom Hydrostream's, designed by Howard Pipkorn, etc...Howard was way ahead of his time in hydro & aerodynamics, as they applied to vee-bottoms. These fast little boats are where you learn the details of set-up & fine tuning. Nobody had ever brought this to the world of offshore hulls until Steve adapted these bottom designs to his first 30' Velocity hull. This offshore version was sort of a hard sell for the first ten years or so, in the eyes of the big money Aronow boat company followers. His biggest volume seller was his 22' in the eighties, which was a little "war-horse" in the offshore racing circuit in "A" & "B" Class, and helped Steve's reputation as a serious offshore competitor. And to think Steve did'nt want anything to do with building a small boat, initially. His father helped convince him he needed an entry level boat to sell & loaned Steve $10,000 to make it happen. Steve very quickly was able to repay his father, due to the "little" boats popularity. How do I know this? Steve's father & I had a conversation about it, many years ago. A bit of Velocity history. Ed;)

Sorry, but you're wrong. One of the first things you learn when you get your seaplane rating.
The steps are there to break the suction of the floats to the water on takeoff when the aircraft is loaded to near gross-weight conditions. They also allow the aircraft to be taxied at a higher rate of speed if a lake crossing is necessary (hence the phrase taxiing 'on the the step'). It was discovered very early on (the 1920's and 30's) that it required up to 30% more engine horsepower to get airborne near gross weight without the steps on the floats. This was not acceptable to most aircraft design criteria.
The steps have very little effect whatsoever on the softness of the landing- that is all up to the pilot and landing technique (or expertise).
The only steps used on boats that are near to what has been utilized by Edo, PK, Aqua, etc. on their floats for 75+ years are those used in the boat designs of Harry Schoell.

This thread gets a little confusing (it 's early in the morning also) Are we talking about Steve Stepp or stepped hulls? :p I spent some time in the Velocity pits at the Orange Beach Worlds. Nice bunch of people and what a party they threw!! Nice Bus too!! I took my first ride in a Velocity this summer, a 26 with 2 V-8 Innovation Johnson O/B's........VERY FAST!!! We were in the Chesapeake Bay so the water was choppy and the ride was solid. The driver had a lot to do with that!! (Bob Powell).

All in All, I am impressed with the boat and the Organization all together!!

jafo's right about steps used on float planes.

My 280 Velocity runs 82 mph with a 500hp motor.It can reach that speed in around 20 seconds.The new 29 fountains seem to take that long to get on plain.In my opinion the Velocity is the best balanced all around sport cruiser.

acording to both boats published weight there is less then 1000 pounds difference not 2000 we have a 29 here that is very fast but the x has been raised 3 inches also a standoff box run a new 6 blabe with about1200 hpower runs 110 plus we also have a few velocitys running at 100 or close with less the 1000 hp both fast boats to me the fountain fells small to the velocity so size is also a factor here i have a overhead pic of the two sitting side by side velocity is bigger boat my 2 cents

My 390 was laid up heave because it did have 950s and no5s. We spent a ton of time at the lake testing props with Mike from halls prop.The boat is a real ***** to get on plain. It likes 32 hydros for top end and 30s for acceleration. Both sets custom for the boat and power.Thats with my 565s. With the 500s. we ran 30s.

Why would a pad bottom boat be considered a conventional "V". Straight bottom Cigarettes are conventional "V" bottoms .... pads are speed tricks just like steps.

G

There is no point in trying to resist progess and technological advance. Stepped hulls are definitely an advance. I have seen Velocity's ads where they say how stepped hulls spin out, barrel roll and ultimately cause boat loss. This may be true of badly designed stepped hulls but it must be said that a badly designed pad bottom or a badly designed straight-V will be just as catastrophic. So if Velocity are comparing their pad bottoms to poorly-designed stepped hulls which were around at the beginning of that concept, it's not a fair comparison. The truth is: put a well-designed conventional or pad V against a just as well-designed stepped V, the stepped one is faster and will be just as safe.

The spin-outs and rolls of stepped hulls are most probably results of other factors. Like super-aggressive X-dimensions for instance. If you try to squeeze that last straight-line mph out by running a Bravo virtually like a surface drive, you will experience instability in turns. And because of their ventilated nature, stepped hulls are more prone to this instability if the X-dimension is too high. Pad or straight Vs are more forgiving in this case and this is why, in my opinion, they have a "safer" reputation.

However, this has nothing to do with the hull design itself. If a stepped hull is designed and rigged correctly, with some sense of compromise between speed and cornering in mind, it will be perfectly safe while running faster than pad or straight Vs.

So, while I do believe that Velocity are pointing towards a problem area which does exist, I do not think that they have pinpointed the source of those problems correctly. Just because something happens with a stepped-hull boat, it does not necessarily follow that steps are to blame. Usually it's either because steps are not designed right or because the rigging isn't right.

In spite of all this, I do however believe that different hull designs provide different handling "feels". And I think that this is the main reason why some people advocate pads while others cheer for steps. This is a fairly subjective argument however so I don't think Velocity is glorified as a company by slinging mud at all stepped hulls. Just saying: "look guys, we build excellent pad bottoms which are safe, plenty fast and have that unique feel that you like" is enough to attract customers and preserve their market niche.

Well said, Too Old. I agree 100%. I do believe a stepped hull will be a bit faster but speed is only one of many criteria. We've already said that every boat is a compromise. What I'm looking for is the compromise which works best for me. And it could be anything, stepped or pad, beak or no beak, mono or cat... One always benefits from keeping an open mind about things and hull designs are no different...

Jafo, you beat me to it. I was fixing to shout "BULLSHT!" on the pontoon steps being there for a softer landing.

Yes, LPA, regardless of what your source has told you, steps on seaplanes ARE MOST CERTAINLY to break surface tension that would otherwise keep a fully loaded seaplane from being able to take off. Do they make for a softer landing? Possibly, but if so, then it is a secondary BENEFIT, not a primary purpose.

Termoli, sorry, but your arguments that a properly designed step bottom is "just as safe" as a properly designed straight vee is also BULLSHT.

Granted, a properly designed step bottom WHEN DRIVEN BY SOMEBODY FAMILIAR WITH ITS HANDLING IDIOSYNCRASIES is going to be a safe boat. BUT you have a whole WORLD full of people who have "been told" or "have learned" that you "trim out for speed" and you "trim in for turning". These guidelines are overly simplistic even in the most forgiving of hull designs, but it is still pretty much an ironclad rule of thumb that applies to straight vees, padvees, trihulls, cathedral hulls, tunnel hulls, and catamarans for the most part. Even if the out=speed equation is misused and in all cases overtrimming will cause a degradation in stability and usually an accompanied speed loss, this loss of stability comes about in a pretty obvious fashion. And on all of those above examples, in=turn can be overused, but will still work...

A step hull, however, defies "conventional logic" in that they usually have a narrower range of trim at which they perform optimally. Overtrimming causes a speed loss, which is not dangerous in itself. Trimming under, in the conventional fashion for turning, however, DOES HAVE A VERY BAD OUTCOME in MANY step bottom designs when speed is factored into the mix.

Only spin out on badly designed hulls? Properly designed step hulls are safe as a Jonboat?

Pure crap. I watched a 377 Hustler take a hard spin on my lake in normal water conditions at around 50mph.

Was that an improperly designed hull done by an inexperienced pleasureboat designer? I'd say NO, but I guess it depends on your personal opinion of the Fiores.

The guy driving had owned boats for his entire life. His last three boats were all capable of running over 75. He was by no means a "motorhead" or a racer. Just a gold chain wearing dark haired suntanned go-fast guy. Exactly like 85% of performance boating's target audience...

He had the money to buy it. He had years of time in fast boats. Nobody felt the need to educate him on the fact that his long-learned practices were not applicable to his new boat.

There were broken bones involved in his spin. Thankfully, that's all.

I'm with Too Old. I buy on real world performance. Doesn't matter so much on what gizmos are on the hull, as long as they work.

I would say he did something wrong then. I have turned my Gun hard at speeds faster than 50 mph, and it has never done anything weird.

I will turn my stepped V harder than I would ever attempt to turn one of my cats.

There is no V bottom that will out turn a 36 Skater in flat water. In the rough it gets a little trickier. Cross a wake pulling one of those high g turns, flat spin and roll.

mcollinstn, some of the best cat throttleman know how to trim out going into a turn. It keeps the Rs up but the prop will lose bite and the bow will set. Not sure if the same can be applied to a V bottom.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fever Mike
[B] I have said the same thing in many other post's and even someone "poofed" a Velocity thread last month due to all the false Velocity mud slinger statments some Velocity owners were touting on here. It's totally ridiculous!

No Mike it was poofed because Of the things you said about Steve Stepp. But I thought it was great you finally admitted your hidden agenda. It explains why you were always bashing the "potato chip" boats as you call them. I think we were still waiting for those pictures you always claim you have.

:confused: :confused:

I dunno mcollinstn, but what you're saying is that there is often a human error associated with accidents involving stepped hull boats. So I'll reiterate what I said before: just because an accident involving a stepped hull boat happens, it does not follow that steps are to blame. Just because people do not know how to use a stepped hull doesn't mean that they are less safe than conventional hulls those people are used to. This has nothing to do with the hull design, it has everything to do with driver experience and skill. I mentioned other factors like X-dimension which is to blame in some incidents and where steps have incorrectly taken the blame. Some time ago, there was a similar thread and I posted a car analogy: suppose you're used to a Viper which has a heavy front end and then you sit into a Porsche GT2 which is quite the opposite and you apply the same cornering technique in your favourite fast corner. You are very likely to go for a spin. Does that make a GT2 less safe than a Viper? Nope, you just have to learn how to drive it properly...

Secondly, a Hustler 377 is a Talon cat, designed by Gary Armington not Paul Fiore. I know this product very well and spinning out at 50 will not happen.

It might be that you're thinking about a 388 Slingshot but it's still the same thing. That boat will not spin out at 50. In my opinion, that person was a) going quite a bit faster than 50 and b) did something very wrong.

So if you guys want to blame incidents which occured due to driver error (inexperience with stepped hulls) or rigging problems on stepped hulls, go ahead. But your argument is fundamentally flawed. Before making an assesment of stepped hulls, you must control for other variables which can lead to accidents.

Mr Velocity , I have had a few crown and sevens but did you say a 36 skater will out turn any v. I have a little seat time in a 32/36 skaters and there aint no way Ill try and turn one like a v. But maybe there is something I dont know.

Stepped hull

Is that the fountain that is for sale at a ins. liquidater?

Not sure
 

Boat had 2 hours on it and he tripped it doing donuts..

costly mistake
 

ouch

Just saw on the news joe from Pantera spun out a 24'
Pantara. 3 People went into the water. Joe and one other were rescued. One person missing and the worst is presumed. lets all pray for them to find the one person. They are great people. I'm sick to my stomach!

..good thing it turned out ok....stepped or non-stepped....experienced or non-experienced...it happens

was on oso a while back...just cut and pasted

design is a big part in steps...from a 42'TS Cig article

Because the steps are only about an inch or two tall, they put enough air under the boat to break friction with the water but not so much that the boat's ride is upset. The 42 Tiger TS' bottom has inner strakes that end at the first step, while the outer strakes run full-length. To give the boat better grip in turns, the outer strakes and the chines are reversed, or turned down a few degrees. In slalom and circle maneuvers, the tweaked strakes and chines worked to perfection, giving the boat agility that's rare in a 40-plus-foot hull.

That's what I said, it will turn like a little tunnel boat. But you have to make sure the boat is set before you turn the wheel. Made a few high G turns that had my helmet bouncing off the side of the canopy.
However, just like a little tunnel if you catch air it will flat spin and roll, exactly what happened to us in Key West
Won't say who taught me how to drive though since it will add way too much fuel to this thread. There is a hint in my tagline though.

Are they ever pretty?

Re: Not sure
 

O.K. So someone buys a boat, has very little time at the helm, has an accident, and it is because it is a stepped bottom boat.

mcollinstn, I think operating "characteristics" would be a better word. IDIOSYNCRASIES provides a negative connotation. Just because something is different does not mean it is negative. You are right, understanding those characteristics is what is important.

Termoli:

Yep, Slingshot (388), not a Talon/Hustler. Spun it like a flat rock. More than 50? Maybe a touch, but not over 60 - no way no how. And OF COURSE he did something very wrong. He dropped the drives all the way in and cranked the wheel. Wanted to show off. And he did. All the way around in a great big spray of water (no he did NOT do it on purpose. He lost his sunglasses and threw his passengers across the boat, breaking some bones - wrist or ribs or something...)

The Porsche analogy brought up is VERY APPROPRIATE. Perfect, I'll say.

And the comment about a loop-happy Porsche not being a more dangerous car is JUST AS WRONG as saying a step hull not being a more dangerous hull. BOTH EXAMPLES are "less safe" than "other designs" for exactly the reasons that are and have been mentioned: THEY BEHAVE VERY DIFFERENTLY THAN "everything else". With "everything else" being the other 95% of the vehicles (cars, boats) that most average joes have been around.

"Average Joes" don't know how to drive them or how to react in cornering situations. In a front engined, RWD car, lifting the throttle abruptly can shift weight from the rear tires and let it get loose if the car is balanced, but usually it just drops the tail back in line and makes the front plow. But in a Rear engined RWD Porsche, doing the same will result in a dang near instant snap spin. Polar momentum combined with weight transfer... Guys that UNDERSTAND this have the proper respect for the pedal and know what to do (or more importantly, what NOT to do). Many average joes playing Racer boy have looped a bunch of shiny 911's into the junkyard.

I'm sorry if you don't agree, but this DOES make the 911 "more dangerous" on an "average joe" scale.

JUST LIKE the "operating characteristics" of a step hull can definitely make them "more dangerous" on an "average joe" scale.

The guys on this board are "more in tune" with their machine than the "average joes". I'm not suggesting that anybody here should avoid step hulls if they want one.

I AM suggesting that step hulls EARNED their reputation as being "more dangerous" on an "averae joe" scale quite honestly.

To say that they have not (earned it) or are not (more dangerous on an average joe scale) is just being stubborn.

I like step hulls just fine. If you like em then more power to you. If you own one, then wonderful.

But I bet you a Whopper Value Meal that you brief your friends on how to trim and how to turn before you let them drive it, don't you...

I like the Porsche analogy. It is the correct one. Don't know what you are doing and you are going to swap ends. Even if you do know what you are doing, you can swap ends......but that is for any car........isn't it:eek: :D :)

you know i have seen those pics and i have seen pics of almost everyother brand that has been raced broken in many different ways fountain also but you always bring up the pics of the velocitys if you dont have an agenda i dont know what you would call it how many pics of broken fountains do you have or do you need some i am sure we can find some and i am not bashing fountains i like them

(Post #23)



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Steps themselves won't sell me. Neither will a pad or straight 24 degree traditional vee.

It's a matter of how it all works together.


Fred I agree A cool boat needs a really wild new steering wheel and some neat aircraft fuel fills