Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Is it me or are there a lot of 2002-2004 Cigarettes FOR SALE from dealership all over the country. National, Martin Marine etc. What's the deal. Are people running them for a year then bying a new one? I've heard and seen over the last year or so that more money has been put into nice paint and crazy electronics than into quality and customer service. I've seen the Maximus and Stealth sitting at the orginal owners for two years. Scarey. What's the Deal is THe Legand Dying Again???????? :blaster:

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

i dont think its Cig. i think its kinda tough to move any high end boat right now.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

???????
You have me confused buddy...
I have a long list of serious buyers for clean TS Guns.
Please let me know if you have a good one.

The boats remain beautiful works of art. Our customers are very happy with their boats.

Cig is still going strong...

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

its you..............

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

No you don't! That is the funniest thing I have heard a boat salesperson say yet. And I used to be one. How many clean guns are in the OSO classifieds? Can you not get a brokerage agreement with the owners? Do you not work well with other brokers? This isn't an attack on you, I'm just tugging at your confident comment.

To address the original question, I think Cigarette is doing better today than they have in years. Most high performance boaters at the Miami show agreed that Cigarette stoled the show with new ideas, immaculate paint and best overall fit and finish. Skip has taken the company to the next level and the "New" prices reflect that. Dealers nationwide showed confidence with the new owner by bringing Cigarette into their inventory. Many inventory boats sit for a year or so on a dealers lot (Boats sell very different than cars). And even at a year dealers are not taking a loss. Plus, how many orders for custom boats come off a single inventory boat? If a 42 Tiger is on your lot for 24 moths before you sell it at cost plus flooring, its more than justified if you sold 5 New ordered Tigers to people who looked at it.
Overall I think Neil and Skip are Kicking ass and taking names with the new company! I just wish they could keep the damn T-shirts from fading!!!

And Tim G, don't get all red in the face, I wish you all the best

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

He may very well have a list of people looking for clean Top Guns....its comes down to whether or not they want to pony up the cash to buy one or not......the economy still sucks in case you havent noticed....

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

The thing I have noticed is that more buyers are trading up quicker.

For instance, the former owner of my boat buys a new one almost every year. Mine had 30 hours on it when I got it.

My National Marine friends are having the same experience. Someone buys a gun, drives it, then decides on a 42 or 46.

Phil at LipShip has lots of customers that are following the same trend with the Gladiators and Guns.

I know 2 guys that have owned 2 brand new Cigs in the last year and have new ones on order.

The factory is packed with new 42's and 46's. People are spending money like crazy on the new ones, not so much on used, because they can.

Thats great for most, because there are some really sweet used ones out there because of this!

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

I agree you may see the 2002 to 2004 Cigs sitting because the price tags that are sitting on them, it has not been the best couple of years.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Yep,
Kick the sales guy...

There's really no need to sign a brokerage agreement with owners that advertise their boats on OSO.
This would be a long post if I went into it, but it simply usually does not work out.... OSO guys typically won't sign an exclusive brokerage agreement. We get into trouble trying to sell a boat to someone....that happens to come through OSO, and bump into the owner's classified ad and calls them...

People are looking for Good Clean TS guns with low hours. They are.
An '01 with 350 hours on 500 EFIS at $260k is not what we get calls for...

Every buyer is a buyer... wanting a smokin' deal. :eureka:

Yes the economy is down..on high dollar boats.... believe me...I know... (probably more than anyone else)

That said..
Now- Who want's a smokin' deal on a new 42 or 46? Come and get 'em. :)

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Most people that have $ have it in good times and bad... I too know of an individual who bought a TG and had it only about 6 months before he ordered a new one. Due to his untimely death he was never able to enjoy the new boat, although I heard his brother was out on the water the other day on it. Tim probably knows who I am talking about and might know if it is true or not that his brother has the new boat.

Point is though, many people are spending big $$ on boats but a lot of the time that means they are custom ordering them. Sometimes they buy a boat used or new and have it a few months, then they have a list on their mind of things they would like different, so they go to the dealer with that list and order a brand new one. That does however mean there are some good closeout deals to be had by people shopping "in-stock" or "slightly used" boats.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

There is a huge difference between Dealer inventory boats, and Brokerage boats when it comes to sitting for years.
A dealer can continue to make money on a boat that sits on there lot (Through new orders).
However a Brokerage boat looses value by the day. Some boats have high asking prices due to owners that have not been "enlightened" on what there boat may actually sell for. The broker wants the exclusive contract so bad they will list the boat for whatever the NADA, BAC, KBB or owner feels the boat is worth...Plus 10% Broker fee. This in turn causes a boat to sit and devalue while potential buyers shop at more confident brokerages who muster up some guts and tell sellers what the boat will really sell for, rather than what they want to hear it may sell for. (Difference between professionals and yes men!) Unfortunately the boat owner (Seller) is the looser in this scenario because they are paying on the note, the insurance, registration or documentation, detailing fee's, etc. on an asset that is de-valuing faster than any other toy besides an Orange County Trophy Wife. Its sad to see and many sellers do not do there homework before listing there boat, after all, its not every week you sell a $350,000.00 boat.
OR
The seller has such a high note that they cannot afford to sell the boat. If you purchased a new TG TS in 2003 for $295,000.00 with a $15,000.00 Myco and put 10% down and paid only 5% in taxes (Yeah Right). And put 20% down carrying a note for the rest of your life on the remaining $260,400.00
The actual value of the boat compared to how much you owe will flip flop within 2-3 years. So many boats that sit, do so because someone bought too much boat and will most likely end there boat ownership by default.

From what I have seen, boat sales are up, people are buying bigger and more expensive boats this year than in the past 4 combined. Outerlimits and Cigarette are building larger more expensive boats and selling them to both dealers and private party around the world. So I would venture a guess that the new boat market is just fine!

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Tim,
Didn't mean to kick you, But you must admit it was kinda a funny comment.
I am sure you and I have run into many of the same "Buyers".
I have an extreme attitude problem when it comes to tire kickers (Thus the reason I don't sell boats for a living anymore). I only assist my friends with purchases and have yet to have anyone waste my time.
Good luck at National, They are a stellar company that has been nothing but professional and fair when I dealt with them in the past.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

That is a snug fitting straight jacket.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

If someone would only buy my Donzi, then I can get the Gun........

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

I have noticed in my shopping that there are fairly high inventories across the board in all types of boats from cruisers to powerboats. Like any industry it's hard to estimate consumer demand. Then trying to explain buying habits is also difficult as well. The "Consumer Confidence Index" is the highest it's been in 2 years. Those boats will have nice new homes soon! I think we are due for a turn around in spending.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Yes...and he's stayed away from that pathetic tit-for-tat "worlds fastest Vee bottom" race that Reggie and Fiore are engaged in. All the chest pounding both of them do makes them look silly. No matter who sets the record, Cigarette is still the boat.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Cigarette has always had the reputation as being the fastest offshore in rough water conditions. That's the gold standard for an offshore. Rough water speed capabilities. Isn't that why they are #1?

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Maybe it' s this Booming Economy :drink:

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

I won't worry until people at the gas station ask me "Is that one a them thar Outerlimits boat?"

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

GLH now that is a good one :)

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

good stuff GLH.......lol

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

I bought their smallest offering and they treated me like 10 million dollars. "You want what? No problem sir, whatever you want sir". (I had to tell Neill to quit calling me sir)

I also currently own a Fountain that I custom ordered to compare to. If you are worried about quality, please know the details that you are never meant to see are the details that get done right at Cigarette. Most manufacturers hide a lot of crap under headliners and carpet and especially under cockpit flooring.

Cigarette Customer for life here. :D:D:D: Just give me a few years until I part with my Gladiator.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Boating Industry Records Significant First-Quarter Growth

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Better put it for sale now if it has those Fords in it and you plan on finding a buyer in a couple years!!! :eek: :D:D:D




Just kidding yahh! ;)

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

As a consumer I look at boats with 1 or 2 years on them and think how was this thing taken care of. Did the owner just run the crap out of it without proper service and then trade it in for a new one to abuse?

I'm at the crossroad of buying a boat and I would love to own a 38 Cig but can't afford a new one and can't afford to buy a piece of beat up crap. Been there done that.

And all the salesmen tell you they were all treated like babies. Yea right.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

GReat input. In the past boat owner purchased with the knowledge that they were locked in for at least 8-10 years. For owners to now be in the 1-2 range is amazing. Must mean that dealers are giving awesome trade-ins or these people are puttinga good chunk of change down.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Boat for sale 2004 gladiator 40+ hrs on it. Moving on up in size for something faster :D :D :D

Only joking :D
This boat is to sick to sell & from these pics I do not see any trouble for Cigarette


I think that with cigarette moving into the new factory they are producing more boats. I have seen that they are more focuses on building 42' & the 46' because there is a market for them.
Rick OSG

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Your boat looks great in those pictures Rick.....

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

I won't worry until people at the gas station ask me "Is that one a them thar Outerlimits boat?"



GLH, LMAO :drink: :drink:

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Yes he does have a list. I have been on a list with Tim G, Phil Lip, Tres M., Offshore Performance, and others for a nice CLEAN, Low Hour gun since last August.

Well, today I finally found what I was looking for. An '02 w/ low hors 575's and resonably clean.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Anyone that wants a mint condition used Top Gun should contact me...a 99 with big power that is brand new with dry sump six's....it is a show stopper and at a very competitve price...it won't put you in the poor house like a new TG will.

DMan

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Sounds like you really need to sell the rig. Did you take out a classified?

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Said it before, I'll say it again.... Ferrari, Rolex, Harley, Cigarette, etc. There's only one #1 among all the material possessions. Build anything you want in any of these fields, and you will NEVER command the price, esteem, market, reputation and pride that goes with THE REAL THING!

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Build anything you want in any of these fields, and you will NEVER command the price, esteem, market, reputation and pride that goes with THE REAL THING!


QUESTION: Isn't Outerlimits and Skater commanding more dollars than Cigarette?

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Compare apples to apples...How many Skaters and OL's have you seen with anything less than outrages power, not many. What was the price on the 46 Maximus with 1075's? That is probably more comparable to the price range of OL and Skater. Can't compare a TG with 525's to a OL with Sterlings.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Damn, I have three out of four on the list. The fourth might take a little while to get though. :D :cool:

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Yup, and it's gotta suck to pull up to the docks in your 1,000,000 Outerlimits and have somebody ask "is that one of them cigarette boats?"

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

:D :D :D

Or not be able to pull up to a dock because your big blower engines won't idle!!! We saw that last weekend. :eek: :eek:

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Oh you can spend as much on a Cigarette too. Order a 46 with 1300's like the OL's and the prices will follow suit.

Re: Is Cigarette In Trouble?????
 

Not trying to argue or anything, just commenting on this exact statement:
Build anything you want in any of these fields, and you will NEVER command the price, esteem, market, reputation and pride that goes with THE REAL THING!
OUTERLIMITS BUILT THERE'S AND ARE COMMANDING THE PRICE, PRIDE AND ESTEEM.