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is it true national marine !

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Old 08-15-2004, 12:58 PM
  #31
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Old
Damn, I'm sick just reading of your situation.

I guess I'm a little simple minded, but how was National able to sell boats with exsisting liens?

They didn't pay off your trade. Then they tried hard to get you to let them finance your new purchase for you.

They could float it for a LONG time!
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

This Is Very Bad, I Hope Something Good Can Come Out Of This. Have A Nice Day.
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:13 PM
  #33
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

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Originally Posted by Too Old
I guess guys lay awake at night thinking of ways to roll that money.

Gives me a whole new appreciation for my local bankers cautious approach to things like title searches and occasionally protecting myself from my own naivety.

I was always under the impression that this practice was illegal.

Not really sure how they got away with it as long as they have?

I know one guy in our area with a new Cig that they financed for him. Not sure if he had a trade in or not?
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

I heard from some of the locals(speed boaters and dealers) that National did not renew there booth spaces for Sandusky boat show or the Cleveland Boat show....they also said that Fountain was asking how far a dealer could be to get into these shows.......JUST WORD I HEARD ON THE STREETS TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH....


I hope not we just had a awesome POKER RUN HERE HATE TO SEE THAT GO
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

My buddy in Milwaukee now owns three performance boats and two boats that were traded to National did not even Pay- off to the Bank.Its on his credit report that he is still the owner. What a personal mess!

Last edited by DENNYB; 08-15-2004 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Bongo
OTIS one thing you have going, and the bank is right they will look to you for payment, they have not released their lien since the loan is not paid off so you two need to talk about what you are going to do to recover the collateral and liquidate it to settle the balance. Remember someone bought a boat that they also don't have a clear title to so they have an interest in getting this settled. Because your bank can repo the collateral and sell it and you get the deficiency but the buyer of your boat gets nothing. Also if they got a loan they have a bank that has no collateral too...so it's going to be a big mess but in the mean time work with the bank.

I failed to mention that my Tiger is locked up in their shop also.

I have a couple things going for me at this point.

1. the people that had the operation shut down is Sky Bank and 2nd National bank. I have my Tiger loan thru these people. No title from them due to paper work being behind on thier part, but the bank confirmed that National has a clear title on this boat. I might be able to work with them to get the Tiger out of their custody.

2. I talked to the new owner of my TopGun. He gave Bill $50k down and Bill is holding the note on $65k. This is how Bill got away w/o giving this guy any paperwork. No title or registration. His payment ito National is very close to what mine is (was) with my bank. It sounds like he is willing to stop paying National and start paying my bank if National goes under until the legal system does its job.

3. I made arrangements with Bill to get my Harley back(before the **** hit the fan yesterday). Titos has said he will personally bring the bike to his house and hold it for me until I can get down there and retrieve it.

On the down side

1. National was re-building my bulldogs as this all went down. It was supposedly all done and to be delivered back to me yeserday. I dont have much faith that Ill even have motors in the boat once I do get it released back to me , let alone fresh rebuilds.

2. I paid National almost $10K in sales tax at the time of the sale which never got paid to NYS DMV. I will probably never see that again.

Bob
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTIS311
I failed to mention that my Tiger is locked up in their shop also.

I have a couple things going for me at this point.

1. the people that had the operation shut down is Sky Bank and 2nd National bank. I have my Tiger loan thru these people. No title from them due to paper work being behind on thier part, but the bank confirmed that National has a clear title on this boat. I might be able to work with them to get the Tiger out of their custody.

2. I talked to the new owner of my TopGun. He gave Bill $50k down and Bill is holding the note on $65k. This is how Bill got away w/o giving this guy any paperwork. No title or registration. His payment ito National is very close to what mine is (was) with my bank. It sounds like he is willing to stop paying National and start paying my bank if National goes under until the legal system does its job.

3. I made arrangements with Bill to get my Harley back(before the **** hit the fan yesterday). Titos has said he will personally bring the bike to his house and hold it for me until I can get down there and retrieve it.

On the down side

1. National was re-building my bulldogs as this all went down. It was supposedly all done and to be delivered back to me yeserday. I dont have much faith that Ill even have motors in the boat once I do get it released back to me , let alone fresh rebuilds.

2. I paid National almost $10K in sales tax at the time of the sale which never got paid to NYS DMV. I will probably never see that again.

Bob
Bob,

I just spoke to Yvette. Let me know if/when you are going to National etc. to get the boat and or bike. I will go with you to help and have bike trailer etc. if needed to haul bike back. Left a message on your cell to.

Call me in Niskayuna. 393-7187

Shane
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:46 PM
  #38
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

Well Too Old...There are a lot of things that could be happening. Boats that they had title to (new and used) probably were on a floor plan. One reason dealerships get into trouble is being out of trust on their floor plans. IE they sold a boat but didn't pay off their bank. Banks do inspections from time to time and dealers who are in trouble pull all kinds of tricks..boats on a test drive, it's at the glass shop and so on. A good bank will say, great when I'm done looking at what you have we will drive over to the glass shop and see it. This happens with cars, cows, motorcycles and jsut about anything else you can finance.

In Otis case sounds like they took a boat on trade. They should pay off the boat and add it to their floor plan line but if they are out of money they might have tried make payments on his loan. This isn't ethical but unless you are watching for your paid note from your bank you might not even notice until they miss a payment or the bank gets a cancellation of your insurance and notifies you and you wonder what the heck that is all about.

If they sell the boat and you loan isn't paid and the coast guard is 6 months behind getting the title changed and the liens satisfied the new lender and buyer isn't expecting the title to change for a while so they can add 6 months to their scheme before someone starts to look into it. Then they can lie and say paperwork was screwed up and had to go back..yadda..yadda to stall for more time.

If their contract really said you loan might not be paid for 6 months you should RUN not walk away or not sign until you have that deleted and the dealer come through with a cashiers check to satisfy the lien. That is a red flag being waived in your face that they have no capital or credit.

This is just one possibility I might be completely wrong but it is one scenario. I am guessing they are out of trust with the banks and that is why nothing is going in or out until an audit is done.

I would recommend that anyone who has a boat there or is owed money should at least talk to their lawyer about their specific situation and what their rights and claims might be. People with deposits are in the worse shape, people that traded boats have some possibility of their bank getting the collateral back and thereby reducing or eliminating their exposure.

Hopefully it isn't as bad as it sounds but it sure could be a major nightmare too.

Last edited by Von Bongo; 08-18-2004 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:51 PM
  #39
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

Shane,

The buyer of you old boat might not have anything. Your bank, the lien holder has the first rights to that boat and can reposess it from the buyer to satisfy their lien. If he is credit worth they may make him a loan and let him pay for it, or they may reposess it sell it and pursue you for the deficency if your loan hasn't been paid.

Like I said this could get real messy.
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Old 08-15-2004, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: is it true national marine !

OMG... my head is swimming..... it sounds like National Marine has been a house of cards waiting to fall for some time.... sad....
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