is it true national marine !
 

i heard bye bye doors are locked.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

web site is up???????????

Re: is it true national marine !
 

national has big problems and about to get worse

Re: is it true national marine !
 

not a previos member just got legal papers reguarding natl because of trade not being paid off boat sold knew for last week something was going on trying to get as much info so i know which way to jump

Re: is it true national marine !
 

floorplanning all that BIG $$$ inventory will crush you. You've got to make some serious margin to cover that. Nobody's willing to pay fat pricing these days in a buyers market. Sooner or later you don't pay your bills. Juggling funds (robbing peter to pay paul) is what the delayed payoffs are all about. When I heard that, well...it's just a matter of time. ;)

Re: is it true national marine !
 

And the only thing more interesting than that is how a guy that "works overtime" has so many posts :D:D

Re: is it true national marine !
 

"TO PROTECT AND SERVE" (my post count) :D :D

Re: is it true national marine !
 

So does this mean theres goin to be a clearance sale?

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I had that same thought! I'll tell you the banks don't want to sit on this stuff!!!

Re: is it true national marine !
 

LOL! :D

Re: is it true national marine !
 

yup :crazy: :D :D

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I don't think it should matter if a person has one post or ten thousand post, if he has laid out some big time coin and he thinks he got screwed I want to here his story.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Yep, what he said. Hopefully the employees knew that it was coming and weren't blindsided. Heck, everyone else in the boating industry has known for a while that National was going to go down like the Titanic.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

My biggest concern is for all the hard working folks that seem to have been screwed by these guys and have two loans out.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I would look in the Bad Business section.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Exactly! I have a good friend who may be in this situation with a 42 TIGER that National has back at their shop for repairs! :hothead: :mad: :blaster:

Re: is it true national marine !
 

wasen't their a oso member who was a sales rep for national in florida??

Re: is it true national marine !
 

If it it so.....that does not mean the bank will let them go for free.

I have an e-mail off to a person I know that lives down the road from the Akron/Youngstown Store or hangers I should say

Re: is it true national marine !
 

This is going to hurt a lot of people we all know unfortunately.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Tim G.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Salesmanship I think???

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Salesmanship is Mr. Sobo from Nortech I think nothing to do with National Marine.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

If you all have read the thread in the bad business section then you know that this is not the made up story of a one post wonder with an agenda. I think that it sucks that you all jump all over a guy with one post. Some people just like to read hear and when they finally come to us for help we jump all over them for not having thousands of posts. Well it is just possible and looking more so every day that in fact they did get hosed down by national, along with MANY other board memebers.

Jon

Re: is it true national marine !
 

That is sad to hear.

What happens when the dealer doesn't pay off your loan? I would guess that the bank has no recourse with you, right?

A car dealer (Least Ford) up here didn't pay off many of the loans from customers trade-in. They were found quilty of fraud though, and had to pay these loans off.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Salesmanship has not worked for National in the past. He was with Black Thunder then he went to NorTech. I have delt with the salesman from National this year and they are nothing like Terry, he has always been upfront and honest! BTW, I also feel for the families of the people supported by National's payroll. What a shame.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

They all knew it was coming, They were just hanging on trying to collect 4 months worth of commission checks that were owed to them

Re: is it true national marine !
 

What about me Jon, They got me for 3 loans. I traded a Harley along with my Gun. Im screwed ...... BIG TIME

Re: is it true national marine !
 

WRONG !!!! M&T bank ,who has my Top Gun Loan doesnt care one bit about where the boat is or what is happening with National Marine. They stated to me that I am responcible and that they had a contract with me and the boat was used as collateral. They didnt seem fazed one bit when I notifed them as to what was going on and that I had traded the boat in and that it had been sold over 4 months ago

Im on the hook for $365k and have absolutley NOTHING to show for it

Excuse me while I go puke while I read about people sticking up for National or not knowing if all this is true or not

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Glad you didn't fall for their easy payment plan buddy!

Re: is it true national marine !
 

OTIS one thing you have going, and the bank is right they will look to you for payment, they have not released their lien since the loan is not paid off so you two need to talk about what you are going to do to recover the collateral and liquidate it to settle the balance. Remember someone bought a boat that they also don't have a clear title to so they have an interest in getting this settled. Because your bank can repo the collateral and sell it and you get the deficiency but the buyer of your boat gets nothing. Also if they got a loan they have a bank that has no collateral too...so it's going to be a big mess but in the mean time work with the bank.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

They didn't pay off your trade. Then they tried hard to get you to let them finance your new purchase for you.

They could float it for a LONG time!

Re: is it true national marine !
 

This Is Very Bad, I Hope Something Good Can Come Out Of This. Have A Nice Day.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I was always under the impression that this practice was illegal.

Not really sure how they got away with it as long as they have?

I know one guy in our area with a new Cig that they financed for him. Not sure if he had a trade in or not?

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I heard from some of the locals(speed boaters and dealers) that National did not renew there booth spaces for Sandusky boat show or the Cleveland Boat show....they also said that Fountain was asking how far a dealer could be to get into these shows.......JUST WORD I HEARD ON THE STREETS TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH....


I hope not we just had a awesome POKER RUN HERE HATE TO SEE THAT GO

Re: is it true national marine !
 

My buddy in Milwaukee now owns three performance boats and two boats that were traded to National did not even Pay- off to the Bank.Its on his credit report that he is still the owner. What a personal mess!

Re: is it true national marine !
 

I failed to mention that my Tiger is locked up in their shop also.

I have a couple things going for me at this point.

1. the people that had the operation shut down is Sky Bank and 2nd National bank. I have my Tiger loan thru these people. No title from them due to paper work being behind on thier part, but the bank confirmed that National has a clear title on this boat. I might be able to work with them to get the Tiger out of their custody.

2. I talked to the new owner of my TopGun. He gave Bill $50k down and Bill is holding the note on $65k. This is how Bill got away w/o giving this guy any paperwork. No title or registration. His payment ito National is very close to what mine is (was) with my bank. It sounds like he is willing to stop paying National and start paying my bank if National goes under until the legal system does its job.

3. I made arrangements with Bill to get my Harley back(before the **** hit the fan yesterday). Titos has said he will personally bring the bike to his house and hold it for me until I can get down there and retrieve it.

On the down side

1. National was re-building my bulldogs as this all went down. It was supposedly all done and to be delivered back to me yeserday. I dont have much faith that Ill even have motors in the boat once I do get it released back to me , let alone fresh rebuilds.

2. I paid National almost $10K in sales tax at the time of the sale which never got paid to NYS DMV. I will probably never see that again.

Bob

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Bob,

I just spoke to Yvette. Let me know if/when you are going to National etc. to get the boat and or bike. I will go with you to help and have bike trailer etc. if needed to haul bike back. Left a message on your cell to.

Call me in Niskayuna. 393-7187

Shane

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Well Too Old...There are a lot of things that could be happening. Boats that they had title to (new and used) probably were on a floor plan. One reason dealerships get into trouble is being out of trust on their floor plans. IE they sold a boat but didn't pay off their bank. Banks do inspections from time to time and dealers who are in trouble pull all kinds of tricks..boats on a test drive, it's at the glass shop and so on. A good bank will say, great when I'm done looking at what you have we will drive over to the glass shop and see it. This happens with cars, cows, motorcycles and jsut about anything else you can finance.

In Otis case sounds like they took a boat on trade. They should pay off the boat and add it to their floor plan line but if they are out of money they might have tried make payments on his loan. This isn't ethical but unless you are watching for your paid note from your bank you might not even notice until they miss a payment or the bank gets a cancellation of your insurance and notifies you and you wonder what the heck that is all about.

If they sell the boat and you loan isn't paid and the coast guard is 6 months behind getting the title changed and the liens satisfied the new lender and buyer isn't expecting the title to change for a while so they can add 6 months to their scheme before someone starts to look into it. Then they can lie and say paperwork was screwed up and had to go back..yadda..yadda to stall for more time.

If their contract really said you loan might not be paid for 6 months you should RUN not walk away or not sign until you have that deleted and the dealer come through with a cashiers check to satisfy the lien. That is a red flag being waived in your face that they have no capital or credit.

This is just one possibility I might be completely wrong but it is one scenario. I am guessing they are out of trust with the banks and that is why nothing is going in or out until an audit is done.

I would recommend that anyone who has a boat there or is owed money should at least talk to their lawyer about their specific situation and what their rights and claims might be. People with deposits are in the worse shape, people that traded boats have some possibility of their bank getting the collateral back and thereby reducing or eliminating their exposure.

Hopefully it isn't as bad as it sounds but it sure could be a major nightmare too.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

Shane,

The buyer of you old boat might not have anything. Your bank, the lien holder has the first rights to that boat and can reposess it from the buyer to satisfy their lien. If he is credit worth they may make him a loan and let him pay for it, or they may reposess it sell it and pursue you for the deficency if your loan hasn't been paid.

Like I said this could get real messy.

Re: is it true national marine !
 

OMG... my head is swimming..... it sounds like National Marine has been a house of cards waiting to fall for some time.... sad....