Now I'm mad.
 

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_arti...05898-6e89bccd

The phrase "Merry Christmas" removed from a song in public schools. Christmas carols banned at a high school event. A religious-themed float denied entry in a local parade. The debate over where Christmas belongs is erupting across the country. Where do you stand on the issue?


http://cdn.digitalcity.com/dailypulse/christmasdebate

"We just wanted to show them the love of God and what Christmas is all about." -- Laverne Gillespie, who protested the secular nature of Denver's holiday parade

"Holiday celebrations where Christian music is being sung make people feel different. And because it is such a majority, it makes the minority feel uncomfortable." -- Mark Brownstein, a parent in a town whose high school forbade a school band to play Christmas songs

"I think that people have become a little too dogmatic in their beliefs on either side." -- Eric Chabrow, a Jewish father who says his son should be able to play Christmas songs in the high school band

Sources: ABC News, The New York Times
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It's so sad that people are doing this. It's a public school. If you don't like it that's what private schools are for. Beggars can't be choosers. What happened to this being the happiest time of the year?
I'm angry and sad and angry that if I have children that they won't have the opportunity see Christmas as I did when I was a kid.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Holy crap!!

The damn parade is probably the CHRISTMAS parade!

I'm and soooooo sick and tired of the politically correct thing. You might offend someone. B***S***!!! I am offended pretty much on a daily basis, but I get over it. I am so sick and tired of bowing down to the minority. Majority is supposed to rule. Get over it! Deal with it! This country was built on immigrants that have been offended for years! Starting next year maybe everyone that is not chritian should have to work on Christmas & Christmas eve. I bet their view would change very quickly! They'd all be singing Christmas songs and putting up trees, and joining in on the Christmas Parade!

Sorry, I had to vent!

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Roflmao.......... hey!.......... who deleted my post?........... lmao............ :evilb:

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

There ya go ... If your not into the REAL meaning of Christmas , and are "offended" or whatever , then you can work the late shifts thru out the holiday weekend for the rest of us !!! That way you wont be bothered by our celebration !!! :rolleyes:

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

my girlfriend was just informed at her new job that they can't have any christmas decorations on there desks, can't say merry christmas, and will not have a christmas party. all because of the god damm indian employees that don't celabrate christmas. I am just glad I don't work there I would probobly get fired.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

PM

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Then those people should not get the holiday off! :mad:

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good point

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This world is just getting too phucked up. It's very challenging to raise kids nowadays trying to teach them the way we grew up. This stuff just has to stop. Think about it. Gays getting married, it seems anything with 'God' in it is being banned, and just society today is just taking a turn for the worst. I am not a real religious guy, I mean I go to church maybe twice a year but man this is getting out of hand. I mean if we are going to get down to the nitty gritty, then I am going to file a law suit because I am paying property taxes that fund public schools (which my children do not go to) that teach children whose parents practice a religion that I perhaps do not agree with. Where does it stop ?

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Christmas, if you dont like it, dont partake. Plain and simple.

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here is my take on this, I am probobly the biggest sinner there is, really don't go to church, I drink too much smoke alot and will do all the women i can, oh yeah let's not leave out gambling. but these people are phucked up. I like christmas, it is fun , festive and people are genrally pretty nice during christmas. weather you are religous or not just enjoy the holliday and the extra time off, there is nothing wrong with it. but if you don't want anything to do with christmas don't try to phuck it up for me cuz i'll kick your azz you non american prick

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Christmas Festivities Draw Scrutiny
Religion's Role in Public Celebrations Debated

MAPLEWOOD, N.J. (Dec. 7) - Members of the Columbia High School brass ensemble were not allowed to play Christmas carols at their holiday concert this year - not even instrumental versions.

At a school board meeting Monday night, parents and students alike expressed their outrage.

"This is censorship at its most basic level and political correctness to its extreme," said student Ryan Dahn.

"When you close that door you are supporting ignorance, and I think it's a very sad thing," said parent Melanie Amsterdam.

The controversy is by no means an isolated case. The role of religion during the Christmas season is a source of annual angst. But this year, people in "red," or Republican, America - particularly Christian conservatives - are in an unprecedented uproar.

They are sending letters to public schools in Chicago, where the words "Merry Christmas" have been excised from a popular song; boycotting Macy's, which has removed "Merry Christmas" signs from its department stores; and protesting the exclusion of a church group from Denver's annual Parade of Lights.

"What they don't understand is that by not wanting to offend anyone, they're excluding a huge group of people, and that is all of those of the Christian faith," said Doug Newcomb, business administrator of the Faith Bible Chapel in Arvada, Colo.

Attorney Demetrios Stratis, affiliated with the conservative civil liberties group Alliance Defense Fund, is one of 700 Christian lawyers across the country poised to pounce on such cases.

"We just don't believe that you need to stamp out religion in the public square," he said.

There are those in Maplewood - and in "blue," or Democratic, America generally - who say religion should be a private matter.

"Holiday celebrations where Christian music is being sung make people feel different," said Mark Brownstein, a Maplewood parent. "And because it is such a majority, it makes the minority feel uncomfortable."

But Eric Chabrow, who is Jewish, says his son, Sam, should be able to play Christmas songs in the high school band. Chabrow is a part of "blue" America and generally supports the separation of church and state.

"I think that people have become a little too dogmatic in their beliefs on either side," he said. "And I think in this world today, we need to look at that center. I mean, the center in this country is vanishing. And maybe that's what's happening here."

He says there must be solutions that are neither "red" nor "blue" - just common sense.

Solutions may not be forthcoming: Christian lawyers may sue the Maplewood school board, while the school superintendent is vowing not to bend to outside pressure.


12-07-04 21:29 EST

Copyright 2004 ABC News.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

this is what will happen to these people

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

The culture of this country is rapidly changing and we are being forced to change with it. We may not like it, but it's changing every day. Look around and see what is missing from just a few years ago.

For God sakes Target won't even allow a salvation army guy out front with a bell :rolleyes:

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

aa

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Just another spiral downward in our society. Whatever happened to "America: Land of the Free"????? How did WE as Americans allow all this crap to happen? And I'm not just talking about Christmas, I'm talking about the general regression of society as a whole. How did it happen?

First: we took corporal punishment out of schools.
Second: we took corporal punishment away from parents.
Third: we have allowed "frivilous lawsuits" to propogate faster than rabbits
Fourth: we ALL need to stand up and be counted, to let our "elected idiots" know
we are not going to stand for this crap anymore.

I fully realize that this is only my own personal opinion, but I think that society as a whole has been going down the "crapper" since the mid/late 70's when the corporal punishment issue became an issue. But then again maybe I'm just slowly turning into a crab.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

we as americans were and always will be too busy working to make money. we go to work everyday. had we stayed home and protested many of these changes. they may not be in effect today. As we went to work. These friggin ***os were out protesting everything from gay marriage to killing unborn babies. They were the louder of the voices so they got thier way. :rolleyes:

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

what do we tell the childern?????

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If every so called American called out of work Monday and said we are not coming back until CHRISTMAS IS PUT BACK INTO OUR LIVES. I'll bet you we would get CHRISTMAS back real soon

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Gimmi a frickin Break, I celebrate Christmas and love it. I have friends who celebrate Hanuka. Whatever you celebrate I don't care, have fun.
Put a fat ass Buddah on the Town Hall Doorstep on your Holiday, I won't be offended.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

I bet one day kids will learn that Bin laden was a hero :rolleyes: and Santa was the anti christ :eek:

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Wow See That's It No More Christmas :(

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here is one that is more serious


HOLIDAY BLUES
Students threatened by Christmas?
ACLU warns of lawsuit unless principal censors celebration

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

The Colorado ACLU is threatening to sue a school if the principal refuses to censor Christmas for its students.

In a joint letter with the Anti-Defamation League, the state American Civil Liberties Union alleged "Jewish students no longer feel safe or welcome" at the Elbert County Charter School in Elizabeth, Colo.

The Nov. 10 letter demands Principal Les Gray censor Christmas and insists the school "must take immediate steps to comply with the constitutional separation of church and state."

It insists the school must ban all references to Christmas in its annual holiday program, including secular songs such as "Jingle Bells."

"This is the same old ACLU ploy of fear, intimidation and disinformation," said Barry Arrington, the attorney representing the principal and the school.

Arrington, an ally of the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, said the ACLU's "suggestion is outrageous and inflammatory."

"These scarcely veiled charges of anti-Semitism hurt the innocent and cheapen the painful experiences of those who suffer real bias," he said.

The Colorado ACLU did not return a call from WND seeking comment.

Arrington argues the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution.

"The truth is that no court has ever ruled that public schools must ban the singing of religious Christmas carols, and no court has ever held that celebrating Thanksgiving and Christmas as religious holidays requires recognition of all other religious holidays," he said. "The ACLU has a different vision for America and a different vision for Colorado than our founding fathers."

One family reportedly withdrew its children from the school because of Gray's refusal to censor Christmas. However, during a goodbye party, Arrington noted, one of the children took a piece of cake to the principal as a friendly gesture.

"That shows how 'unsafe' this child felt in the school," Arrington said. "This isn't about 'safety,' it's about extremist political views. How tragic that these organizations would use children as pawns in their political game."

A leading Jewish voice, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, president of Toward Tradition, said he is deeply disappointed at the Anti-Defamation League's role in the matter.

"The ACLU is already notorious for its rabid hostility toward America's Judeo-Christian tradition, but the Anti-Defamation League, originally founded to defend Jews, should know better" said Lapin, whose group is the nation's largest for building bridges between Jews and Christians.

The Anti-Defamation League, he said, has "defected from its original worthy mission and is now shamefully collaborating with secular fundamentalists."

"Almost all Jews recognize that America's Christian heritage is the main reason our country is not infected with the scourge of anti-Semitism seen in post-Christian Europe," Lapin said. "Most Jews resent the League's embarrassing and cynical attempt to shatter the atmosphere of mutual respect that has long characterized relations between America's Jews and Christians."

The Anti-Defamation's actions, he said, show it to have become "pitifully out of touch with reality" and "an obsolete relic in the Jewish community."

Related story:

Christmas in America becomes battleground



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor's note: "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION" - the special November edition of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine - documents conclusively that the modern legal doctrine of "separation of church and state" is the work of activist judges, and has utterly no basis in the Constitution.

Subscribe to Whistleblower and receive 12 powerful monthly issues, beginning with "THE MYTH OF CHURCH-STATE SEPARATION."




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Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Exactly. That would probably be the way that the majority of people feel including me BUT see the next quote....

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Another EXACTLY !!!! That's the whole problem. These people lobby for this stuff and we just don't have time to stand up to it.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Hey Walrusman,

Don't get mad. Just do what I do. Everytime I see a dot head, I wish them Merry Christmas. If they don't like it and have a negative comment; I tell them to go back to India and LIVE IN A F*CKEN MUD HUT!

Have a nice day. :cool:

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

i thought that dot was a button you have to push real hard

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Glad to see from all these posts that I'm not the only one who thinks the inmates are running the asylum! Let's see, the ACLU is after the Boy Scouts, the Pledge, anything religious, that Halloween celebrates the Satanical,Christmas ad nauseum. It's crazy. Not too many years ago, the only place someone with divergent views could be heard was our college campuses. Now it's just the opposite, someone might be offended. I've yet to hear of anyone refusing money because it says 'In God We Trust'. Like all of you, this nonsense is getting old.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

drastic times call for drastic measure's, it is almost time to call walrus man

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People dropping off holiday cards and packages at Tyler post offices who might have otherwise tossed some change into a familiar red kettle will have to go elsewhere this year.

Tyler post offices are no longer allowing the Christian charity The Salvation Army to place its holiday bell ringers and donation kettles at entrances, a Salvation Army spokeswoman confirmed.

Linda Edwards said the change took effect about two weeks ago. She said she thought it was prompted by a postal customer's complaint, but referred the question to Tyler-area postmaster Fred Arrambidez.

Arrambidez referred inquiries to Polly Gibbs, customer relations coordinator for the Dallas district of the U.S. Postal Service. She said Monday she was not immediately able to get information about the specific situation in Tyler.

"The (Tyler) post offices have had a no-solicitation policy for a while, but we (The Salvation Army) have been the exception," Ms. Edwards said.

U.S. Postal Service regulations available on the agency's Web site prohibit solicitation on post office property.

Ms. Edwards said The Salvation Army had kettles at three Tyler post offices: 2100 West Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard, 2627 South Broadway Ave. and 3320 Troup Hwy.

"The locations will be missed," she said. "They were very good locations for us, but we understand policies ... We're not angry at the post offices or anything like that. We're just grateful for all the years we've been able to ring there. They're a great bunch of people."

The Tyler post office decision comes after a decision this year by the Target Corporation to ban the bell ringers from its retail stores across the nation.

Target has had a no-solicitation policy and decided allowing The Salvation Army to operate at its stores would not be fair to other charities.

"It's a difficult spot to replace, but we've had a number of other stores and companies in the area that have pitched in to help out and fill that gap," Ms. Edwards said, estimating kettles at Target in Tyler have generated more than $10,000 in a holiday season.

She did not have access to numbers from the post office kettles, but said they generate "a number of thousands of dollars."

"They've always been very good bell locations for us," she said. "The only place I think anyone goes more than the post office during the holiday season is to the grocery store."

She said being barred from Target and the post offices "gives us a challenge in finding more creative ways to make up the differences by virtue of finding different locations or extending some hours."

The kettle drive is the charity's largest fundraising effort of the year. Last year The Salvation Army raised nearly $200,000 from kettles in Tyler, and it hopes to top that number this year.

As for whether a complaint about a bell ringer at the post office represents a cultural bellwether, Ms. Edwards said, "I don't know whether it's a change. We've always had your humbugs. Maybe it's a sign of the times, maybe people are a little more vocal about it, and the ones that are happy to see the bell ringers there, they may not be as vocal. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease."

She said the kettle drive is about 30 percent of the way toward its goal, about normal for this time in December.

Mark Collette covers Southern Smith and Upshur counties. He can be reached at 903.596.6303. e-mail: [email protected]




©Tyler Morning Telegraph 2004

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

About ten years ago I had an employee who was a Jehovah's Witness. He could not celebrate Christmas. Or his birthday, or anybody's birthday.

We pass around birthday cards on people's birthday. He wouldn't sign them.
On his birthday, he wouldn't accept the card.

When our Christmas party came around, he said that he couldn't attend. He said that he could attend if we called it a Winter Celebration.

We had a Christmas Party without him.

No big deal. He had his beliefs. We had ours. We didn't interfere with his. He didn't interfere with ours.

Sounds like plenty of people don't want to go to a parade where Christmas music will be played. So stay home.

How the f the offended minority gets the right to dictate the agenda is beyond me.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcollinstn

How the f the offended minority gets the right to dictate the agenda is beyond me.

---

I don't get it either!

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

its sooooooo whacked,, they take god bless america out they take the pledge out , now santa?? this freakin chit, its gone way tooo far,,
i think these nccp or whatever organizations are from a differnt planet..
the only issue with public schools we have had is couple yrs ago when they had our kids for 2 weeks doing a muslim simulation,, dress in freakin table cloths, whacked replacmnt names, recite the coran, they even got points for everything they did and wore, even for a gihad they got points ,, this was right after 9/11,, we put a freakin stop to that,, this is USA.. what the f is that ****, maybe it would be an ok thing if they did all religions but just this,, ah ah,, no way,.
but u cant say merry christmas..????
we all came from somewhere else, freakin conform learn the language, and blend into society,
maybe i am too americanized but i came here for what it was and is,, not to change it,,
read the back of the allmighty dollar the worlds main currency..
in god we trust. whether u do or not who cares, it is what it is,..

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

I think what is the most sad thing is that too many people are letting outsiders raise thier kids, instead of raising them themselves. I mean, if not singing Christmas carols at school is going to ruin their children's Christmas spirit, then it seems something is really lacking at home. Either that, or the parents never really give a rats behind, but turn out to gripe just because they think they are losing something.

Personally, I don't even care what music is playing, as long as the kids are happy. My son's cello concert the other night was just as wonderful without picking it apart and dissecting whether the music was from "MY" religion or not. Wouldn't that have been the real tragedy?

The kids never mentioned being upset about the song selections - they were happy to perform for us, and we were happy to watch. And if you really are in the spirit of giving, then you'd be happy that the non-Christian musicians from Pakistan and India were able to enjoy it just as much as you did. Come on peeps - come back down to earth. Love one another and let it go.

If you are upset that cheer is missing this holiday, then there's only one thing to do - turn the frown into a smile and start spreading it around.


Here's one way to really get in the true Christmas spirit - the act of giving and caring for each other (which really is the whole point of celebrating Christmas anyway) --- A holiday song is nice, but if you really want to make your heart swell - go to http://www.anysoldier.com. My boys and I spent the weekend packing two CARE packages for two complete strangers stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan, who will most likely NOT get anything from home this holiday. www.anysoldier.com gives addresses of "contact soldiers" who will make sure a serviceman or servicewoman who is down in the dumps and needs a morale boost gets your package or letter.

"GIVING" always feels so much better than "TAKING", no matter who you are.
www.anysoldier.com

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

Yeah thats pretty rediculis, at first it was the Pledge of Allegance, and now its a Christmas parade.

I actually go to a private school and basically we havent had any issues with anything religion related. We say the pledge every morning and if you dont want to stay it you dont have to. It should also be this way for the Christmas parade, I know a few individuals take pride in the band and Christmas and would like to be able to get in the spirit, so they should be able to sing/play the songs if they would like.

Does anyone agree with me?

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Secularist's's. Don't like anything to do with Christianity because it doesn't
fit their master plan. It's mainly a liberal agenda. To bad our government
is allowing the minority to dictate what we can and can't say or do. Hell,
Bloomberg calls the N.Y.C. Christmas tree "A holiday tree". What a load of
crap. Candyass politicians sucking up for the all mighty vote." Don't want
to offend anyone." I might not get their vote." I think its gonna backfire
on them. Americans still have values. Middle America is gonna tell them
to kiss MY A$$. O' Yea,their also gonna say screw you Democrats and your
redistribution of wealth $hit you've been spewing for years. Let the lowlifes
work for their money like everyone else. I think most of this country isn't
looking for the lefty handouts. If you worked for it,earned it,you should be
able to keep some of it..........Whew, I'm exhausted.........

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

I couldn't agree with all of you more and just wanted to say GOD BLESS AMERICA AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

In case you didn't know....

Some of the Salvation Army bell ringers are making as much as $8.50 per hour. There are some volunteers, but many are being paid by the hour. I choose instead to donate to the charitable organizations that are run mostly by volunteers (local food banks, St. Vincent de Paul society, church soup kitchens etc) so that a larger portion of my donation goes to those who need it most.

I have always felt it was unfair that the Salvation Army got first dibs at all the store fronts, while the other organizations just as important (who were also working for less rewards) were told to stay away. I don't blame Target at all for their decision.

http://www.abqjournal.com/north/2676...ws12-07-04.htm

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

I'm with you. live and let live. Dont tell me how to live and I wont tell you how to live.

Re: Now I'm mad.
 

amen god bless and merry x mas!!!
thats well said!!!