Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
05-23-2005, 05:36 PM
#12
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
"Independent Oil Filter Study"
Mobil 1
M1-301
"Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Avaition Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which improves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is not a fake. It is definitely a unique design.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up".
While there is lots of good info on Bob's (BITOG) site; many times you will see a manufacturer or dealer post info that favors their own personal interests. Everything there is not "gospel". I have learned you have to read and then research.
The Mobil-1 is a very highly regarded filter; some of Bob's tests are done in a rudimentary fashion I have noticed as well. It is "backyard testing". Testing oil filter flow and filtration must be done on various oils at various temperatures and a test he did was at room temp. only and then at low pressures.
I just read a thread yesterday on Bob's saying to use a
Mobil-1 filter on a C-6 Corvette.
Always use several sources.
Mobil 1
M1-301
"Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Avaition Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which improves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is not a fake. It is definitely a unique design.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up".
While there is lots of good info on Bob's (BITOG) site; many times you will see a manufacturer or dealer post info that favors their own personal interests. Everything there is not "gospel". I have learned you have to read and then research.
The Mobil-1 is a very highly regarded filter; some of Bob's tests are done in a rudimentary fashion I have noticed as well. It is "backyard testing". Testing oil filter flow and filtration must be done on various oils at various temperatures and a test he did was at room temp. only and then at low pressures.
I just read a thread yesterday on Bob's saying to use a
Mobil-1 filter on a C-6 Corvette.
Always use several sources.
05-24-2005, 08:42 PM
#13
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
I don't really know if this is a redudant arguement or if we're splittin' hairs here.
I was in Auto Zone today and wrote down some info that I found on a box of a Mobil-1 synthetic fiber content, high efficiency oil filter, part # M1-601 (HP-6 size long filter). On the it said it has "one of the highest single-pass ratings available with 98% partical removal at 10-20 microns.
On the box of the K&N oil filter's that I use it says it filters down 8-10 microns vs the Merc's 17 microns and if it flows more than some of these other filters such as the Mobil-1 (if what was posted is true), then I would say K&N is one of the top filters---right?
Anyone know what the advantage is of a long size filter vs the standard length sized kind???
Anyway, from what I am reading, it sounds like the K&N filter is the better choice in filters from what is listed above by "flyfast" in post #5. K&N is super close in flow rate, but has the Merc beat in filtration of micron size (Merc 17 microns), as well as beating the Mobil-1's 10-20 microns, and out flowing it as well.
I have been using the K&N filter on my marine engines, and they cost about $17 each. However, I am willing to change if there is a better flowing, better filter oil filter out there. If you notice in the picture below you will see that I have the K&N oil filters hanging from my KE Thermofilters of both of my engines that just came off the dyno. The KE thermofilters I have on my engines require the larger "HP-6" size oil filter.
I was in Auto Zone today and wrote down some info that I found on a box of a Mobil-1 synthetic fiber content, high efficiency oil filter, part # M1-601 (HP-6 size long filter). On the it said it has "one of the highest single-pass ratings available with 98% partical removal at 10-20 microns.
On the box of the K&N oil filter's that I use it says it filters down 8-10 microns vs the Merc's 17 microns and if it flows more than some of these other filters such as the Mobil-1 (if what was posted is true), then I would say K&N is one of the top filters---right?
Anyone know what the advantage is of a long size filter vs the standard length sized kind???
Anyway, from what I am reading, it sounds like the K&N filter is the better choice in filters from what is listed above by "flyfast" in post #5. K&N is super close in flow rate, but has the Merc beat in filtration of micron size (Merc 17 microns), as well as beating the Mobil-1's 10-20 microns, and out flowing it as well.
I have been using the K&N filter on my marine engines, and they cost about $17 each. However, I am willing to change if there is a better flowing, better filter oil filter out there. If you notice in the picture below you will see that I have the K&N oil filters hanging from my KE Thermofilters of both of my engines that just came off the dyno. The KE thermofilters I have on my engines require the larger "HP-6" size oil filter.
05-24-2005, 08:47 PM
#14
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
Originally Posted by KAAMA
I don't really know if this is a redudant arguement or if we're splittin' hairs here.
I was in Auto Zone today and wrote down some info that I found on a box of a Mobil-1 synthetic fiber content, high efficiency oil filter, part # M1-601 (HP-6 size long filter). On the it said it has "one of the highest single-pass ratings available with 98% partical removal at 10-20 microns.
On the box of the K&N oil filter's that I use it says it filters down 8-10 microns vs the Merc's 17 microns and if it flows more than some of these other filters such as the Mobil-1 (if what was posted is true), then I would say K&N is one of the top filters---right?
Anyone know what the advantage is of a long size filter vs the standard length sized kind???
Anyway, from what I am reading, it sounds like the K&N filter is the better choice in filters from what is listed above by "flyfast" in post #5. K&N is super close in flow rate, but has the Merc beat in filtration of micron size (Merc 17 microns), as well as beating the Mobil-1's 10-20 microns, and out flowing it as well.
I have been using the K&N filter on my marine engines, and they cost about $17 each. However, I am willing to change if there is a better flowing, better filter oil filter out there. If you notice in the picture below you will see that I have the K&N oil filters hanging from my KE Thermofilters of both of my engines that just came off the dyno. The KE thermofilters I have on my engines require the larger "HP-6" size oil filter.
I was in Auto Zone today and wrote down some info that I found on a box of a Mobil-1 synthetic fiber content, high efficiency oil filter, part # M1-601 (HP-6 size long filter). On the it said it has "one of the highest single-pass ratings available with 98% partical removal at 10-20 microns.
On the box of the K&N oil filter's that I use it says it filters down 8-10 microns vs the Merc's 17 microns and if it flows more than some of these other filters such as the Mobil-1 (if what was posted is true), then I would say K&N is one of the top filters---right?
Anyone know what the advantage is of a long size filter vs the standard length sized kind???
Anyway, from what I am reading, it sounds like the K&N filter is the better choice in filters from what is listed above by "flyfast" in post #5. K&N is super close in flow rate, but has the Merc beat in filtration of micron size (Merc 17 microns), as well as beating the Mobil-1's 10-20 microns, and out flowing it as well.
I have been using the K&N filter on my marine engines, and they cost about $17 each. However, I am willing to change if there is a better flowing, better filter oil filter out there. If you notice in the picture below you will see that I have the K&N oil filters hanging from my KE Thermofilters of both of my engines that just came off the dyno. The KE thermofilters I have on my engines require the larger "HP-6" size oil filter.
Manufacturer "Sticker Names"
AC Delco- AC Delco
Allied Signal- Fram, X2, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mopar Severe Duty
Baldwin- Baldwin, Amsoil
Champion Labs-Mobil 1 A Champion Labs filter, but constructed differently. Also supposedly K and N and defunct AC Delco Proguard
Purolator Purolator-, Pure One, Castrol MaxPro, Penske, Pro Line, Powerflo, Mopar, Motorcraft
Wix- Wix, Napa Gold and Silver, Car Quest, Auto Extra
From the information above they suggest the K & N filter is made by Mobil which has Champion Aviation labs make their filters.
...funny eh? 
SO sice the K&N and Mobil-1 may be the same or close they are great guy!
You can't beat a Mobil-1 or Amsoil SD filter. Periord. They filter great and they flow great.
Independent SAE lab test results:
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 05-24-2005 at 09:01 PM.
05-24-2005, 09:46 PM
#15
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
I have read the test results and I have tried a few filters both on cars, the truck and the boat. On the boat I have tried a fram, bosch, mobil 1, K&N and merc. I can tell you that a K&N and Mobil 1 are not the same filter. The Mobil 1 and the bosch are very close in term of flow.
The K&N as bob's oil web site says is a high flow filter. You can see this both on the gage after a hard run and by smelling the engine. With the K&N your engine will smell like alot of oil is running around inside.
For some reason the merc engineers spec calls for a high flow or racing filter on merc motors. Marine motors burn dirty. With a high flow filter you get the filtering when the motor is working the hardest. A car or low flow filter may filter finer but will buypass at high rpm.
The amsoil may be a better filter but I have not tried it. One year I did try amsoil grease on one axle of my boat trailer and mobile 1 grease on the other axle. The next year when I repacked the bearings I found the amsoil grease to have held up very well. Amsoil was clearly the better grease.
I have tried semi synthetic and synthetic oil a few times. I am looking forward to trying some of the heavier base stock synthetic oil. The only complaint that i have with 40 wt dino oil is that it takes forever to pump out of the boat motor.
Try some of the different filters. I have bob's the oil guy numbers to be very accurate.
The K&N as bob's oil web site says is a high flow filter. You can see this both on the gage after a hard run and by smelling the engine. With the K&N your engine will smell like alot of oil is running around inside.
For some reason the merc engineers spec calls for a high flow or racing filter on merc motors. Marine motors burn dirty. With a high flow filter you get the filtering when the motor is working the hardest. A car or low flow filter may filter finer but will buypass at high rpm.
The amsoil may be a better filter but I have not tried it. One year I did try amsoil grease on one axle of my boat trailer and mobile 1 grease on the other axle. The next year when I repacked the bearings I found the amsoil grease to have held up very well. Amsoil was clearly the better grease.
I have tried semi synthetic and synthetic oil a few times. I am looking forward to trying some of the heavier base stock synthetic oil. The only complaint that i have with 40 wt dino oil is that it takes forever to pump out of the boat motor.
Try some of the different filters. I have bob's the oil guy numbers to be very accurate.
05-25-2005, 06:23 AM
#16
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
Originally Posted by FlyFast
I have read the test results and I have tried a few filters both on cars, the truck and the boat. On the boat I have tried a fram, bosch, mobil 1, K&N and merc. I can tell you that a K&N and Mobil 1 are not the same filter. The Mobil 1 and the bosch are very close in term of flow.
The K&N as bob's oil web site says is a high flow filter. You can see this both on the gage after a hard run and by smelling the engine. With the K&N your engine will smell like alot of oil is running around inside.
For some reason the merc engineers spec calls for a high flow or racing filter on merc motors. Marine motors burn dirty. With a high flow filter you get the filtering when the motor is working the hardest. A car or low flow filter may filter finer but will buypass at high rpm.
The amsoil may be a better filter but I have not tried it. One year I did try amsoil grease on one axle of my boat trailer and mobile 1 grease on the other axle. The next year when I repacked the bearings I found the amsoil grease to have held up very well. Amsoil was clearly the better grease.
I have tried semi synthetic and synthetic oil a few times. I am looking forward to trying some of the heavier base stock synthetic oil. The only complaint that i have with 40 wt dino oil is that it takes forever to pump out of the boat motor.
Try some of the different filters. I have bob's the oil guy numbers to be very accurate.
The K&N as bob's oil web site says is a high flow filter. You can see this both on the gage after a hard run and by smelling the engine. With the K&N your engine will smell like alot of oil is running around inside.
For some reason the merc engineers spec calls for a high flow or racing filter on merc motors. Marine motors burn dirty. With a high flow filter you get the filtering when the motor is working the hardest. A car or low flow filter may filter finer but will buypass at high rpm.
The amsoil may be a better filter but I have not tried it. One year I did try amsoil grease on one axle of my boat trailer and mobile 1 grease on the other axle. The next year when I repacked the bearings I found the amsoil grease to have held up very well. Amsoil was clearly the better grease.
I have tried semi synthetic and synthetic oil a few times. I am looking forward to trying some of the heavier base stock synthetic oil. The only complaint that i have with 40 wt dino oil is that it takes forever to pump out of the boat motor.
Try some of the different filters. I have bob's the oil guy numbers to be very accurate.
If you are using a 40wt dino it could slow down oil flow through the filter as a multi-vis synthetic will flow easier. I called Mobil and they feel their oil filters are best suited to the use with synthetic oils. Additionally, their tests showed it to be a high flow and high volume filter at high pressures and good for HP applications.
How about posting the page and link to Bob's new oil filter data. He previously said the Amsoil SD filter "walked on water" and the Mobil-1 was very close. Why the sudden change of heart?
I trust an SAE 3rd party test with more sophisticated equipment over some of his backyard testings. Also, i find Bob's site members can't agree on many topics. One day it's Amsoil then another day it's Redline...so I look at the data and make my own conclusions. We don't always agree. But that's life.
SAE tests showed the Mobil-1 filter to have a 93% efficiency on 1st pass without bypassing at full pressure. The K & N is in the same ballpark and it is made by the company who makes the Mobil-1 filter.
They say nothing filters a higher volume over time than cellulose filters. They are very open and free flowing.
We are splitting hairs.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 05-25-2005 at 06:27 AM.
05-25-2005, 08:59 AM
#18
SORE MEMBER
Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 29°50'49.74"N 95° 5'17.55"W.......TEXAS
Posts: 6,989
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
Originally Posted by KAAMA
What are the bennefits of a tall filter vs a standard length filter?---better flow? Better filtering? or what? thanks
Look at the big rig filters. Air, Oil or fuel.
05-25-2005, 10:52 AM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Dr. Kobrin..... The birth of Mobil-1
From bob's website the mobile 1 flows 8.1 at 10 psi. The K&N flows 14.7 at 10 psi. This is about 80% more flow. This is a big number. Of course you will only notice the difference on the guage at a low idle speed. If your filter goes into bypass 80% latter or 3000 rpm vs 5400 rpm this is huge.
Something that I don't understand is why a synthetic oil will flow better at temperature. I don't doubt that a dino 30 wt at temp will flow like a 10 wt oil. If a synthetic will flow better through a fine filter then it will also flow faster from the bearing surfaces in your motor. I want a oil that will maintain the 30 wt film on the bearings at temp and speed.
You know the engineers at merc are pretty lazy. Alot of things are done for cost rather than to make a better product. If there was no need for a high flow filter merc would have just had car filters repainted black. Why did merc spend the time and money to come up with a unique filter?
I know most people think the K&N is made by champion. I use the champion aircraft filters that have the champion name on them. The K&N has a different 1" nut attached to the bottom from the aircraft filter. They may be made both made from champion but they have a different housing.
What flow does the sae test on the mobile 1 filter show it to be by passing?
I only use the tall filters. I have no info on the short ones.
Something that I don't understand is why a synthetic oil will flow better at temperature. I don't doubt that a dino 30 wt at temp will flow like a 10 wt oil. If a synthetic will flow better through a fine filter then it will also flow faster from the bearing surfaces in your motor. I want a oil that will maintain the 30 wt film on the bearings at temp and speed.
You know the engineers at merc are pretty lazy. Alot of things are done for cost rather than to make a better product. If there was no need for a high flow filter merc would have just had car filters repainted black. Why did merc spend the time and money to come up with a unique filter?
I know most people think the K&N is made by champion. I use the champion aircraft filters that have the champion name on them. The K&N has a different 1" nut attached to the bottom from the aircraft filter. They may be made both made from champion but they have a different housing.
What flow does the sae test on the mobile 1 filter show it to be by passing?
I only use the tall filters. I have no info on the short ones.
