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Procharger experts needed

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Old 06-16-2005, 11:07 PM
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Default Procharger experts needed

I have a recently installed M-1 that is surging. The fuel pressure @ idle ranges from 30-34# and the engine is rough. I re-built the regulator with ATI's kit and nothing has changed. I did notice that the needle ( big sucker ) had a ring. Should this regulator vary this much as it does? I have talked to ATI and most who answer the phone are not very informed or experienced. Any sources out there on how precise this regulator should regulate??
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Old 06-17-2005, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Baronbob,
Contact Articfriends (Smitty) here on OSO. He has conducted some very interesting R&D with Procharger fuel system applications.
Bob
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Need some more info.
Surge just at idle or at other RPM's?
Is setup on carb motor or EFI? I am assuming with 34lbs of fuel pressure you have efi. If carb you have way too much pressure.
Did problem start as soon as you installed kit or worked for while & then problem started?
Where do you have boost reference line going to from the regulator?
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

The red regulator procharger sold me with my m-3 kit was junk and could never hold the same fuel pressure twice,you would set it at 35psi,put boat into boost (where the regulator would get boost referenced to say 50 psi) then return to off boost and it would go to 31 psi or 38 psi,boat would never run right consistantly. Procharger sent me a new one,was no different,i took it all apart,polished and cleaned it,still did same thing. It would also stay at 35 psi when it was supossed to be boost referenced and lean out about every 10 times of going into boost. The first season i ended up lengthening the return rubber hose and when you hit the gas and it stauyed at base presure i would open engine hatch and wife would pinch off return hose which would cycle the regulator to max pump output and work another 10-20 times under boost. I researched this the second year and a VERY helpful company owner at bell industrys/cartech in texas told me how to fix it,he sold me a second regulator to piggyback on first regulator so one could hold base pressure and second one could override it under boost. I ended up changing primary regulator to a Aeromotive from summit and now it works beautiful holding base/idle fuel pressure. When Tyler Crockett re- did my EFI map (after local guy already sent it out and made it run WORSE) he was also having same problem on procharged apps.I told him how to solve it with the bell regulator and he ended up having bell custom make him some regulators which he now stocks(the original regulator i bought from bell had 1/8" pipe threads for 302 mustangs and i had to rethread it to 1/4 pipe thread) the ones Tyler has made come w/1/4 inch pipe. I about fell over when Tyler was asked this question in Hot Boat and he told a guy that after careful research HE had found this solution but either way this is the fix,if you call him he has both regulators you need in stock,tell him Smitty told you to call him 1-810-324-2720,Smitty

Last edited by articfriends; 06-17-2005 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

The surging might also be from having voltage set wrong on your TPS/IAC,there has been a good post this winter on how to set it,when Crockett dyno's a blown EFI the first thiung he does it set the idle voltage,Smitty
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Old 06-17-2005, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Can you describe or draw out or picture the double regulator set-up.
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Thanks for all the response to everyone. The back ground someone asked for is as follows: The engine is a Merc 7.4 MPI the system is a used M-1 with the red regulator (I think made by ATI). Ati can not come up with a part # for the regulator. They did sell me the correct re-build kit (diaphragm, 3 O rings and a spring). The problem did exist before the re-build. I put the regulator back together the same way with the large round plate on the top of the diaphragm and found that I did not have enough travel in the adjustment and then re-located the round plate to the bottom of the diaphragm resulting in pushing the needle further down with a given spring pressure. the needle does have a wear mark and I have asked ATI if I can purchase a new needle and seat. They do not know if they are sold separately, they don,t know the part # of the regulator or the needle/seat. They will not let me talk to the tech on the flow bench to see where the round plate goes. Anybody know?? Can or should I lap in the needle/seat with valve lapping compound? Or should I just Polish it on my lathe? How do you set the idle voltage referenced in one of these responses?
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Old 06-17-2005, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Bob,here is a picture of the JUNK regulator procharger sold me with my original kit. If you didn't understand my first post i'll re-iterate,the original regulator never worked correctly-it would stick and not boost reference occasionally,after boost referencing it wouldn't always return to base fuel pressure,for example it was set at 35psi,you'd shut it off and re-start it and it would stick at 31 or 32,the next time it would go to 37 or 35 or 31!I constantly had to re-adjust it,they sent me a second one,it was no better,i took it apart and polished everything,it was no better. Converting to 2 seperate regulators helped,i used the junk procharger one to set idle presure,used the cartech one to override it by routing return pressure from junk one thru it but it would still stick. Finally i threw it in my JUNK pile,bought the aeromotive one but still use the cartech/bell industrys to boost fuel,works flawlesly. Don't waste too much time or your frustration level with the regulator,just replace it,Tyler Crockett had same exact problems with same regulators on procharger set-ups so its a common problem,Smitty
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Old 06-17-2005, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

Here is a pic of the one i been using that is problem free.The aeromotive is set at base pressure,say 35psi,the fuel return line that leaves it would normally go back to tank or suction side of the pump,instead it goes to the inlet of a more precise,tunable regulator,when the motor goes into boost the second regulator closes down overiding the first regulator,because your not trying to make 1 regulator hold Idle/base pressure AND raise fuel pressure,its not as susceptible to sticking and holds presure real good. The second thing is the Cartech/Bell industrys regulator is a rising rate regulator,you can adjust how much it boost references from 1psi per psi of bost to 7 or 8 psi per lb of boost,Smitty
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Old 06-17-2005, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Procharger experts needed

MY MOTOR BUILDER IS JUST FINISHING UP MY NEW PROCHARGER MOTORS AND NOW I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS REGULATOR PROBLEM THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. CAN SOME ONE E-MAIL ME THSES PICTURES YOUR TALKING ABOUT. [email protected]
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