Marine Lubrication
06-08-2009 | 07:13 AM
#1621
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From: Michigan
It was my understanding that their grease beat out the Amsoil in military testing, and that is why the Air Force and NASA use it to grease their planes, and on the Mars rover. By the way... I have been using Amsoil in my drive, and use Mobil 1 V-twin in my engine.. I have been told by a couple of outboard racer guys the this gear lubel was the ****z, and have tried it in my outdrive. I picked up around 90 rpm +/-, and my outdrive temp dropped aproximately 35 deg. I have yet to try their oil in my motor.
Chris
Chris
06-08-2009 | 09:44 AM
#1622
Chris
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Snohomish, WA
Compare them yourself. The data sheets for both products are available. Take a minute and look at both of them. For one example, the AMSOIL grease and 10w-30 beat their products in the 4ball wear scar test by almost half the wear. There are other categories too, but that is just one of them. I'm not saying its a bad product, but, for the price, AMSOIL is just as good, and half to 2/3 the cost.
Chris
06-08-2009 | 10:11 AM
#1623
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Compare them yourself. The data sheets for both products are available. Take a minute and look at both of them. For one example, the AMSOIL grease and 10w-30 beat their products in the 4ball wear scar test by almost half the wear. There are other categories too, but that is just one of them. I'm not saying its a bad product, but, for the price, AMSOIL is just as good, and half to 2/3 the cost.
It would be nice to see them offer free shipping
06-08-2009 | 03:39 PM
#1624
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From: Michigan
Oh, have I been down that road before. I agree, it would be nice, but, legitimately, you pay for shipping on everything you buy. Its just buried in the price. If you can find me a truck that drives down the road, and runs on air, I would love to see it. Nothing runs, nor does anyone drive, for free.
06-08-2009 | 06:23 PM
#1625
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From: Missouri
Oh, have I been down that road before. I agree, it would be nice, but, legitimately, you pay for shipping on everything you buy. Its just buried in the price. If you can find me a truck that drives down the road, and runs on air, I would love to see it. Nothing runs, nor does anyone drive, for free.
06-08-2009 | 06:34 PM
#1626
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From: Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
Penzoil conventional oils have a high parafin level which some liike and some dislike. It adds film strength but when it breaks down it forms sludge.
All in all the correct weight of Penzoil is usually good. Why racers prefer Kendall or Castrol generally I am not sure.
Well I went looking for myself. The Pennzoil add campaign referred to their higher refined (97% contamination free) "PureBase" as the reason for the good test results per the "Double Pass Sequence IIIG" engine test which is actually an ASTM test run twice...RE: "Double Pass". It would be futile to attempt to adequately summarize how Pennzoil ran a foul of the Judicial system in their add claims so if anyone is really interested in the mind numbingly involved details please feel free to go to the following and check it out:
http://www.riker.com/casedecisions/index.php?id=11059
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
Penzoil conventional oils have a high parafin level which some liike and some dislike. It adds film strength but when it breaks down it forms sludge.
All in all the correct weight of Penzoil is usually good. Why racers prefer Kendall or Castrol generally I am not sure.
A while back Penzoil marketing campaign began that showed test results of brand 'B' versus Penzoil after x hours of high temperature cook. The brand 'B' looked like tar and the Penzoil looked new. Have you seen this advertisement at your local oil change facility and how does this reconcile with your information?
http://www.riker.com/casedecisions/index.php?id=11059
06-08-2009 | 08:53 PM
#1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
Penzoil conventional oils have a high parafin level which some liike and some dislike. It adds film strength but when it breaks down it forms sludge.
All in all the correct weight of Penzoil is usually good. Why racers prefer Kendall or Castrol generally I am not sure.
Well I went looking for myself. The Pennzoil add campaign referred to their higher refined (97% contamination free) "PureBase" as the reason for the good test results per the "Double Pass Sequence IIIG" engine test which is actually an ASTM test run twice...RE: "Double Pass". It would be futile to attempt to adequately summarize how Pennzoil ran a foul of the Judicial system in their add claims so if anyone is really interested in the mind numbingly involved details please feel free to go to the following and check it out:
http://www.riker.com/casedecisions/index.php?id=11059
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
Penzoil conventional oils have a high parafin level which some liike and some dislike. It adds film strength but when it breaks down it forms sludge.
All in all the correct weight of Penzoil is usually good. Why racers prefer Kendall or Castrol generally I am not sure.
Well I went looking for myself. The Pennzoil add campaign referred to their higher refined (97% contamination free) "PureBase" as the reason for the good test results per the "Double Pass Sequence IIIG" engine test which is actually an ASTM test run twice...RE: "Double Pass". It would be futile to attempt to adequately summarize how Pennzoil ran a foul of the Judicial system in their add claims so if anyone is really interested in the mind numbingly involved details please feel free to go to the following and check it out:
http://www.riker.com/casedecisions/index.php?id=11059
Penzoil has some great oils..as does Kendall as does some other...you have to check them all out!
That being said most M-1 synthetic and Amsoil products are outstadning...less sorting out to do.
Make sense?
Oil advertising can be and usually is.......BS......and that is why we have this Marine Lubrication Thread on OSO I would imagine!!
Cooking an oil to it's flashpoint to 600*F and comparing it to others means little really.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 06-08-2009 at 08:56 PM.
06-08-2009 | 09:15 PM
#1628
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From: Missouri
Most advertising is BS....that being said 50% of an oil is the basestock and 50% the critical additives...detergency...anti-wear..anti corrsion etc.
Penzoil has some great oils..as does Kendall as does some other...you have to check them all out!
That being said most M-1 synthetic and Amsoil products are outstadning...less sorting out to do.
Make sense?
Oil advertising can be and usually is.......BS......and that is why we have this Marine Lubrication Thread on OSO I would imagine!!
Cooking an oil to it's flashpoint to 600*F and comparing it to others means little really.
Penzoil has some great oils..as does Kendall as does some other...you have to check them all out!
That being said most M-1 synthetic and Amsoil products are outstadning...less sorting out to do.
Make sense?
Oil advertising can be and usually is.......BS......and that is why we have this Marine Lubrication Thread on OSO I would imagine!!
Cooking an oil to it's flashpoint to 600*F and comparing it to others means little really.
However the IIIE Engine Sequence Test that Pennzoil used for their adds is an ASTMD5533 engine test and not just a hot plate test.
RE: "This is the test Pennzoil performed, at double its normal length, as the basis for its advertisement. This test is designated by ASTM as ASTMD5533. The ASTM Publication describes this test as a test method for evaluating automotive engine oils for certain high-temperature performance characteristics, including oil-thickening, sludge and varnish deposition, and oil consumption, as well as engine wear. This test employs a 3.8L V- 6 Buick engine (circa 1986-87), run on leaded fuel for a term of sixty-four hours. This test method was developed to correlate with field experience using oils of known good and poor protection against oil thickening and engine wear. The test evaluates selected parts of the engine, such as pistons, rocker covers, rocker cover deflectors, front cover, oil pump screens and oil rings, for oil thickening, et al., during the test. These are the so-called rated parts.
The IIIE test is comprised of nine parameters,See footnote 44 each of which is of equal significance and independent of the other parameters. In order to pass the IIIE test, it is necessary for the engine motor oil to pass all of the test parameters. The parties quarrel whether oil consumption during the test is a test performance parameter or a criterion for judging test validity. Ford's WSS-M2C913-A specification for factory and service fill oil requirements characterize oil consumption as a performance parameter. The ASTM Manual 5533, to the contrary, terms oil consumption as a validity criterion. Pennzoil contends that oil consumption is a performance factor, while Castrol contrarily asserts that it is a test validity criterion."
06-09-2009 | 03:39 PM
#1629
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Joined: May 2004
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I know adds are mostly BS and I need to not forget that fact as I did in this case.
However the IIIE Engine Sequence Test that Pennzoil used for their adds is an ASTMD5533 engine test and not just a hot plate test.
RE: "This is the test Pennzoil performed, at double its normal length, as the basis for its advertisement. This test is designated by ASTM as ASTMD5533. The ASTM Publication describes this test as a test method for evaluating automotive engine oils for certain high-temperature performance characteristics, including oil-thickening, sludge and varnish deposition, and oil consumption, as well as engine wear. This test employs a 3.8L V- 6 Buick engine (circa 1986-87), run on leaded fuel for a term of sixty-four hours. This test method was developed to correlate with field experience using oils of known good and poor protection against oil thickening and engine wear. The test evaluates selected parts of the engine, such as pistons, rocker covers, rocker cover deflectors, front cover, oil pump screens and oil rings, for oil thickening, et al., during the test. These are the so-called rated parts.
The IIIE test is comprised of nine parameters,See footnote 44 each of which is of equal significance and independent of the other parameters. In order to pass the IIIE test, it is necessary for the engine motor oil to pass all of the test parameters. The parties quarrel whether oil consumption during the test is a test performance parameter or a criterion for judging test validity. Ford's WSS-M2C913-A specification for factory and service fill oil requirements characterize oil consumption as a performance parameter. The ASTM Manual 5533, to the contrary, terms oil consumption as a validity criterion. Pennzoil contends that oil consumption is a performance factor, while Castrol contrarily asserts that it is a test validity criterion."
However the IIIE Engine Sequence Test that Pennzoil used for their adds is an ASTMD5533 engine test and not just a hot plate test.
RE: "This is the test Pennzoil performed, at double its normal length, as the basis for its advertisement. This test is designated by ASTM as ASTMD5533. The ASTM Publication describes this test as a test method for evaluating automotive engine oils for certain high-temperature performance characteristics, including oil-thickening, sludge and varnish deposition, and oil consumption, as well as engine wear. This test employs a 3.8L V- 6 Buick engine (circa 1986-87), run on leaded fuel for a term of sixty-four hours. This test method was developed to correlate with field experience using oils of known good and poor protection against oil thickening and engine wear. The test evaluates selected parts of the engine, such as pistons, rocker covers, rocker cover deflectors, front cover, oil pump screens and oil rings, for oil thickening, et al., during the test. These are the so-called rated parts.
The IIIE test is comprised of nine parameters,See footnote 44 each of which is of equal significance and independent of the other parameters. In order to pass the IIIE test, it is necessary for the engine motor oil to pass all of the test parameters. The parties quarrel whether oil consumption during the test is a test performance parameter or a criterion for judging test validity. Ford's WSS-M2C913-A specification for factory and service fill oil requirements characterize oil consumption as a performance parameter. The ASTM Manual 5533, to the contrary, terms oil consumption as a validity criterion. Pennzoil contends that oil consumption is a performance factor, while Castrol contrarily asserts that it is a test validity criterion."
FYI..Penzoil Platinum is used by a lot of guys on Bob's site with excellent results and it's offered in a 15W-50. I do not know how much ZDDP is in it. So probably send in a test sample and if it's at or over 1200 ppm...like M-1 15W-50 SilverCap...you are good to go.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 06-09-2009 at 09:23 PM.
