LAKE EFFECT

Re: Can a 572ci make 850hp na? under 6000rpm

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Yes 91+ Octane fuel is mandated to disappear under the Federal EPA rules in place for implementation in 2007. Not only will 91 octane be the max as standard pump gas high octane in every state who wants federal money and beleive me none can live without the Feds money!, but the fuels will also be oxygenated with alcohol additives and such to as much as 30% additives for emissons requirements in all 50 states! Good luck with any motor with more than 10.to one compression.

Ray @ Raylar
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"Nothing is impossible, it just costs more!"

I was very concerned about Raylars post when I read it, so I did some research of my own. I live in Ohio, and like to use Sunoco gas. I contacted Sunoco's customer relations(215-977-3000) and talked to a very knowledgable gentleman named Mike Miller. Here's what he had to say. The only regulation of concern was the percentage of ethanol going into pump gas. Ethanol absorbs moisture, and can cause issues in the marine environment. Performance wise, ethanol has a cooling affect on the intake charge, which is a good thing. As far as losing octane he assured me that 93 is here to stay, and he knows of no new regulations. I live in an area that still sells 94 octane, and for cost reasons 94 may disappear in the future. He also stated that higher octane fuel has less sulfer, and actually polutes less. The Feds know this, and he doesn't know why the EPA would even think about messing with octane ratings. My concerns stem from my need for 93/94 octane fuel, I have a supercharged street car and am building 2 Procharged 509's for the boat. I'm sure I am not the only one with this concern. This is what I researched, if anyone has anymore or conflicting info, please post.

zt260

I am also concerned. I would have to lower my boost to accommodate 91 octane. After spending countless hours tweaking my efi program, I certainly don't want to change it for 91 octane.

So I contacted a few engine builders, and no one can verify 93 octane is disappearing. If this is the case there will be quite a few people caught off guard. I’m not doubting Ray, I just hope he’s misinformed.

kickin32

well you cant get 93 out west from what i heard a friend of mine sold his viper to a guy in vegas and had to have it retuned for 91 because no 93 availible out there at all so whats up with that

zt260

California has not had anything over 91 octane for sometime now. The smog is to blame. Never thought I'd feel lucky to live in NY.

vandeano

I live in California, and I don't think I ever seen 93 octane. Not that I can remember that is.

Raylar

Octane increasing compounds are provided in todays gasoline with additives that do not increase smog. Tetra-ethyl lead use to be used to make higher octane fuel but it is now outlawed. IE: no lead or unleaded fuel. The ethanol and alcohol additives that are being added today and in increasing amounts in years to come are designed as oxigination additives to help gasoline burn more completely and hence produce less emmssions. These mandated reductions in the emissions produced by even todays gasoline is slated for reductions over the next several years. The problem is that these additives will lower the actual octane rating of the fuel whether the oil companies tell you the truth or not. You can see this when you actually have fuel tested and calibrated at independant labs. Be careful of what oil compnaies tell you, what are you going to do when you find out their not quite being honest! Sue Them! Ha, don't be so gulable and believe everything a customer service person iwho is prepped and programmed to say what the oil companie want you to hear and believe!! The real motivator for oil compnaies is profit as it should be and as less and less vehicles produced requiring higher octane fuels, the reduced demand for super high octane fuel decreases and there is less profit oportunity for the companes to allocate the added expense of making special fuels in smaller quantities. Iam not trying to paint the reduction of octane as an evil thing. We actually have engines today that make more power per cubic inch on lower octane fuels than we ever had. The engines and their uses will just have to get more efficient and less octane dependant. We do!

Ray @ Raylar

LAKE EFFECT

Ray,

You are definitely more knowledgeable about the current status of gasoline then I am. The guy I talked to was some kind of engineer, and seemed pretty open and forth coming about the questions I asked him. I know the oil companies have an agenda like you said(money), but I hope they can manage emissions, regulations, demand, and profit without hurting the quality. With all the record profits there receiving, they should have enough money for R&D.

Griff

Nebraska only has 91 octane at all stations except for BP/Amoco which has 92 octane.