Ethanol, just not the real thing.
07-12-2006, 07:54 AM
#21
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Originally Posted by roguegts
Hmm it's interesting to hear you guys having so many issues with just E10.
Yes any alch based fuel will absorb water at a faster rate than petroleum fuel... duh. Keep the tanks relatively sealed and it should be of minimal concern.
With the people having problems: Ethanol and more so Methanol will dissolve the buildup left by gasoline, and yes it may clog the fuel filter. So CHANGE IT.
I'm shocked to hear people having carb issues. The only way I see this being a big concern is if you haven't cleaned the carb internally for a VERY long time.
Yes any alch based fuel will absorb water at a faster rate than petroleum fuel... duh. Keep the tanks relatively sealed and it should be of minimal concern.
With the people having problems: Ethanol and more so Methanol will dissolve the buildup left by gasoline, and yes it may clog the fuel filter. So CHANGE IT.
I'm shocked to hear people having carb issues. The only way I see this being a big concern is if you haven't cleaned the carb internally for a VERY long time.
07-12-2006, 08:39 AM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Fund Razor,
To bad about the gas issues. I still don't have my boat back on the water but I did drain the tank, put new filters, lines, water seperators, etc. before I run my new engines with old gas.
Should be back on the water in a couple weeks. Sorry to hear about the boat for sale.
To bad about the gas issues. I still don't have my boat back on the water but I did drain the tank, put new filters, lines, water seperators, etc. before I run my new engines with old gas.
Should be back on the water in a couple weeks. Sorry to hear about the boat for sale.
07-12-2006, 10:22 AM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Funny how Ethonol is eating through boat engines, carbs and fuel tanks... however gas stations, gas station infrastructure and the car's they fuel have no issues.
If ethanol was so terrible, the owner's manual in every glove compartment in every car in north america wouldn't list it as an acceptable source of fuel.. and every boat and boat engine manufacturer owner's manual would tell the user's NOT to use it.. which they don't.
"E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline :
E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.... It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
Can E10 be used in small engines? :
Yes. Ethanol-blended fuel is safe to use in small engines like motorcycles, lawn mowers, trimmers, boats, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, ATVs, and many others. Manufacturers understand that a considerable portion of the gasoline sold in this country contains ethanol and ensure that their products are compatible with oxygenated fuel..."
If ethanol was so terrible, the owner's manual in every glove compartment in every car in north america wouldn't list it as an acceptable source of fuel.. and every boat and boat engine manufacturer owner's manual would tell the user's NOT to use it.. which they don't.
"E10 - 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded gasoline :
E10 is approved for use in any make or model of vehicle sold in the U.S. Many automakers recommend its use because of its high performance, clean-burning characteristics. In 2004, about one-third of America's gasoline was blended with ethanol, most in this 10% variety.... It is important to note that it does not take a special vehicle to run on "ethanol". All vehicles can use E10 with no modifications to the engine. E85 is for use in a flexible fuel vehicle, so some people confuse "ethanol" with the blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.
Can E10 be used in small engines? :
Yes. Ethanol-blended fuel is safe to use in small engines like motorcycles, lawn mowers, trimmers, boats, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, ATVs, and many others. Manufacturers understand that a considerable portion of the gasoline sold in this country contains ethanol and ensure that their products are compatible with oxygenated fuel..."
07-12-2006, 10:46 AM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Originally Posted by Island Time
Fund Razor,
To bad about the gas issues. I still don't have my boat back on the water but I did drain the tank, put new filters, lines, water seperators, etc. before I run my new engines with old gas.
Should be back on the water in a couple weeks. Sorry to hear about the boat for sale.
To bad about the gas issues. I still don't have my boat back on the water but I did drain the tank, put new filters, lines, water seperators, etc. before I run my new engines with old gas.
Should be back on the water in a couple weeks. Sorry to hear about the boat for sale.
Not selling for environmental reasons. (if it sells)
Selling because my summer schedule has changed so much that I can't use it anyway. Figure might as well sell now, since all I do is unwinterize it and then winterize it two months later.
But I'll be fixing this gas issue regardless. Whether it stays or goes it needs to be right.
07-12-2006, 10:46 AM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Originally Posted by BattleCry
Let's see here: Ethanol=Renewable Resource.
Petroleum=NOT a Renewable Resource.
Billions of Surplus Bushels of Corn.
Corn is Grown Here in the U.S.
Creates Jobs and Grow all over Rural U.S.
Byproducts of Ethanol Can Feed Cattle.
Oil in the U.S. is Only Found in Certain Parts.
No, We Cannot Produce Enough Ethanol to Completely Cut Our Dependence on Foreign Oil. We Can Put a Big Dent in It.
I have been running a 10% Ethanol blend in the boat for more than 3 years now. I haven't noticed any problems with it. I'm running T-454/330's. Engines are carb and an '89 vintage. I put stabilizer in them and a little SeaFoam over the winter. I usually run the tanks really low before I winterize it.
Ya'll must not have any problem with paying that high fuel bill to people outside the U.S., who don't really like us here in the U.S. They really like our money and the fruits they get from our labor. Heaven Forbid, the U.S. Farmer, who we all know will spend his money here at home and employ our workers, makes a little more money on the fruits of our labor, here in the U.S.
Yes, its going to take some changes on the way we are use to doing things. That is what Change, Progress, and Evolution is all about. Please try to be open-minded.
Petroleum=NOT a Renewable Resource.
Billions of Surplus Bushels of Corn.
Corn is Grown Here in the U.S.
Creates Jobs and Grow all over Rural U.S.
Byproducts of Ethanol Can Feed Cattle.
Oil in the U.S. is Only Found in Certain Parts.
No, We Cannot Produce Enough Ethanol to Completely Cut Our Dependence on Foreign Oil. We Can Put a Big Dent in It.
I have been running a 10% Ethanol blend in the boat for more than 3 years now. I haven't noticed any problems with it. I'm running T-454/330's. Engines are carb and an '89 vintage. I put stabilizer in them and a little SeaFoam over the winter. I usually run the tanks really low before I winterize it.
Ya'll must not have any problem with paying that high fuel bill to people outside the U.S., who don't really like us here in the U.S. They really like our money and the fruits they get from our labor. Heaven Forbid, the U.S. Farmer, who we all know will spend his money here at home and employ our workers, makes a little more money on the fruits of our labor, here in the U.S.
Yes, its going to take some changes on the way we are use to doing things. That is what Change, Progress, and Evolution is all about. Please try to be open-minded.
Different ideas, yes, given time, ethanol may become a viable fuel source, but for now, it apparently is not....
we are not running out of oil, each year we find more oil on the planet than we use, yes, eventually it is mathematically possible to run out of oil, in say 350 years or so.... but by then Gore's global warming will have fried everything anyway, so it is not REALLY a concern.
besides, refined oil inventories are INCREASING each and every day, we are getting to a point we are reaching maximum inventory levels because we are running out of storage capacity. This generally signals an excess supply, not a limited one.
Simply stated, we have enough oil within our boarders to provide all the oil needs of America for the next couple hundred years, but we can not get to it because of environmental laws that are extremist at best, and militant at worst.
Farmers will not bode well under a system that artificially creates demand for their product, thus creating artificial income for them, because in a few years the artificial stimulation will be removed and the farmers will have a significant decrease in pay, after a period of artificially increased income. This will result in economic hardships for this group. This is not a group who will "save the windfall", they will purchase new equipment, land, and the like, and the market will adjust prices upward, then when the artificial income is removed the farmer will be left trying to cover the increased obligations and operating cost. It may feel good to give a farmer an artificial increase in income, but it will screw them in the longer term.
Bottom line we need to let free markets work, we need to build oil infrastructure and refinery capacity and create energy at the lowest price possible. THAT creates stability, economic health, and prosperity. Our oil "crisis" of today is STRICTLY a result of lack of US drilling, production, and refinery capacity. We have let the environmental wackos run the sho, they have all but destroyed our ability to produce energy, and now we are suffering with higher prices and limited supply. Remember, the problem is not the amount of oil in the ground, it is the speed at which we can extract it.
07-12-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Originally Posted by dean51267
eventually it is mathematically possible to run out of oil, in say 350 years or so....
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07-12-2006, 12:09 PM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
yes there is MASSIVE reserves of oil all over the world.
just for sake of killing this "running out of oil" scare tatic, attached is a position paper I did a few months ago for a local investment club. It is written in plain english. Next time someone says "we are running out of oil" pass this along.
just for sake of killing this "running out of oil" scare tatic, attached is a position paper I did a few months ago for a local investment club. It is written in plain english. Next time someone says "we are running out of oil" pass this along.
07-12-2006, 12:50 PM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Originally Posted by dean51267
Farmers will not bode well under a system that artificially creates demand for their product, thus creating artificial income for them, because in a few years the artificial stimulation will be removed and the farmers will have a significant decrease in pay, after a period of artificially increased income. This will result in economic hardships for this group.
Bottom line we need to let free markets work, we need to build oil infrastructure and refinery capacity and create energy at the lowest price possible. THAT creates stability, economic health, and prosperity. Our oil "crisis" of today is STRICTLY a result of lack of US drilling, production, and refinery capacity. We have let the environmental wackos run the sho, they have all but destroyed our ability to produce energy, and now we are suffering with higher prices and limited supply. Remember, the problem is not the amount of oil in the ground, it is the speed at which we can extract it.
Oil was trading high 20's low 30's a barrel 3 years ago.. it's nearly at $75 now.. that's the free market doing what it does best - maximize profits.
Nevermind projections, can you imagine if we litterally couldn't meet the demand and pumps started going dry, thus creating a legitimate crisis?
My god the cost of fuel would skyrocket to $1,000 barrel!
The best thing for Joe gas consumer if gvt to take control of supplying fuel to the people.. that way the price of gas would be as stable as the cost of milk.. and other commodities..
07-12-2006, 01:18 PM
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Re: Ethanol, just not the real thing.
Did "big oil" run down the price of oil in the late 1990's? Or were we "ripping them off" then and now just paying back? Or maybe they do not control what companies will pay?
If government takes control of oil, watch the price explode, and the quality decline, just like what happens EVERY TIME the government takes over something.
Oil prices are driven by the commodities markets on a world wide basis, we may not LIKE that fact, but it is a FACT. Farmers do not control the price of wheat, minders do not control the price of coal, steel manufacturers do not control the price of steel, and oil companies do not control the price of oil.
Oil is a comidity, and commodities markets are driven by the expectation of future supply and demand. Oil is a critical commodity, so companies are running up the price to secure future supply lines. It has little to do with TODAY's supply and demand, but rather EXPECTED supply and demand in 6 to 12 months. Right now the markets are telling us their is significant risk of shortages in 6 to 12 months. (Imagine that, with the nut in Iran saying he will shut off supply and China growing at 8% of GDP per year).
The best thing to do to lower oil prices is to bring stability to world markets, reassuring them that their will be oil production to meet tomorrows needs. That means develop domestic production capacity.
No, if we could not meet demand for oil with existing supply, alternative energy would become viable. There is no mathematical possibility of "running out of energy/oil". It simply can not happen. If we can not meet demand for oil, then natural gas becomes an option, if we can not met the demand there then solar or wind becomes an option, if we can not met demand there hydrogen, or nuclear, or something else becomes viable.
Remember, people do not want OIL, they want ENERGY, and the moment extraction of energy from some source other than oil is more cost effective, THAT becomes the new thing.
Just like they do not want wheat, they want bread, no one wants coal, they want heat, they do not want steal, they want cars, they do not want copper, they want electrical wire. Oil is an INGREDIENT. If you had a billion barrels of oil, and no way to use it, sell or refine it, it would be worthless, because oil is just an ingredient, in its natural form it solves no problems, meets no needs, and has no rewarding characteristics.
Goobernment taking over oil is about like them taking over farming, more people working in the Dept of Ag than farmers exist, average income of oil companies plummet, net technology (like genetic altered foods) comes from and goes to their countries, taxes become more expensive, rationing becomes possible, all that crap. Remember, gooberment is not the answer, it is the problem. The best thing the goobernment could do to stabilize and lower oil prices is get off the environmental wacko kick, let oil companies build refineries, encourage them to if necessary with tax incentives. Increase STABILITY of supply, and increase stability of PRICE.
THAT is the answer to oil prices, and the ONLY one that will work.
If government takes control of oil, watch the price explode, and the quality decline, just like what happens EVERY TIME the government takes over something.
Oil prices are driven by the commodities markets on a world wide basis, we may not LIKE that fact, but it is a FACT. Farmers do not control the price of wheat, minders do not control the price of coal, steel manufacturers do not control the price of steel, and oil companies do not control the price of oil.
Oil is a comidity, and commodities markets are driven by the expectation of future supply and demand. Oil is a critical commodity, so companies are running up the price to secure future supply lines. It has little to do with TODAY's supply and demand, but rather EXPECTED supply and demand in 6 to 12 months. Right now the markets are telling us their is significant risk of shortages in 6 to 12 months. (Imagine that, with the nut in Iran saying he will shut off supply and China growing at 8% of GDP per year).
The best thing to do to lower oil prices is to bring stability to world markets, reassuring them that their will be oil production to meet tomorrows needs. That means develop domestic production capacity.
No, if we could not meet demand for oil with existing supply, alternative energy would become viable. There is no mathematical possibility of "running out of energy/oil". It simply can not happen. If we can not meet demand for oil, then natural gas becomes an option, if we can not met the demand there then solar or wind becomes an option, if we can not met demand there hydrogen, or nuclear, or something else becomes viable.
Remember, people do not want OIL, they want ENERGY, and the moment extraction of energy from some source other than oil is more cost effective, THAT becomes the new thing.
Just like they do not want wheat, they want bread, no one wants coal, they want heat, they do not want steal, they want cars, they do not want copper, they want electrical wire. Oil is an INGREDIENT. If you had a billion barrels of oil, and no way to use it, sell or refine it, it would be worthless, because oil is just an ingredient, in its natural form it solves no problems, meets no needs, and has no rewarding characteristics.
Goobernment taking over oil is about like them taking over farming, more people working in the Dept of Ag than farmers exist, average income of oil companies plummet, net technology (like genetic altered foods) comes from and goes to their countries, taxes become more expensive, rationing becomes possible, all that crap. Remember, gooberment is not the answer, it is the problem. The best thing the goobernment could do to stabilize and lower oil prices is get off the environmental wacko kick, let oil companies build refineries, encourage them to if necessary with tax incentives. Increase STABILITY of supply, and increase stability of PRICE.
THAT is the answer to oil prices, and the ONLY one that will work.
Last edited by dean51267; 07-12-2006 at 01:23 PM.
