Hey guys, over the last 1 1/2 yrs, I've tried my best to help where I could with many here, now I need some of this help.
Need some more opinions to go with a couple that I have already gotten. Looking for a large majority, or a been there done that.......this is what will work.

Got my motor back in and running today on the muffs. Afterwards, I notice a very small bead of water between the head and block at the center cyls. I think the head gasket has to be leaking some. This is a Gen V 502, so head bolt holes are blind.
The heads have been cleaned up, so they are flat. The block showed .0015 max over a 6" distance, and this was at the cyl. webs, not at the water passages. Also .002 max over the full length across cyls, straight and diagonal. Merc specs out .003/ 6" length and .007 runout over the total length, so figured I was OK and no need to deck the block. Head gaskets are the FelPro perma torque. New ARP head bolts. I did as Felpro suggest, torque head down in steps and sequence according to factory specs, wait 10 minutes, loosen 1 head bolt up at a time and then retorque it, then on to next bolt. This I did. I used the ARP assem. moly lube, both on the threads and under the bolt head on the supplied washers. Normal factory torque specs are 75 ft. lbs. ARP says 65 ft. lbs with their ARP lube, so this I also did. Also holes were cleaned with a tap for accurate torqing. It has been suggested to retorque from the ARP's 65 ft lbs, but to factory specs @ 75 ft.lbs. While reading the ARP web site, it says on new fasteners to torque-loosen-retorque 5X before final torque. Any thought on this pocedure? It has also been suggested to check for the new bolts to be bottoming out in the block, but I believe I checked the length to the original bolts, and they were the same length as long as I used the washers with the new ARP's.

Also to note, when I brought the motor back home from being dynoed a couple of weeks ago, I noticed this wetness on both sides, but thought it must be just condensation from the trip home or somehow water blowing out the block while traveling. So this is why I looked for it today, out of curiosity. I'm assuming the dyno uses more water pressure, so this is why it leaked on both sides then.
My biggest worry is that on the muffs today, I only have around 3-4 psi and it leaked, whats going to happen at normal 20 psi? I think I know that one!!!!!

I really DO NOT want to be pulling this damn thing out again, much easier to sell it!

So, what is the census on retorqing to the higher, stock spec of 75 ft. lbs, but using the ARP bolts with the ARP lube? Would 10 ft lbs make a difference, even though it only leaked with only a few psi of water pressure? And what about the 5X procedure?

Thanks for ANY help you can offer.
Jerry

Yes the 10 lbs. might make a difference. It also might seal after 2-3 run cycles cold-hot-cold. One other thing I have seen is the edges of the cooling ports getting slightly rounded from cleanup and then allowing coolant to seep past. the ports must have perfectly square edges to seal properly-this is another good reason for slightly decking the block. The 5 time procedure will stop leaks down the road by pre-stretching the bolts but should not fix seepage now. OTOH it couldn't hurt.

One other thought... If there was too much lube on the bolts it can cause a hydrolock in the hole-hopefully you used it sparingly.

Maybe do a compression check and see if the cylinders are sealed tight. I have always re-torqued my heads after the first heat / cool down of the motor. I would do this and double check your bolt lengths. You can do this without pulling the motor. Good point about the lube, don't use to much in blind holes. Good Luck!

jerry,
i did an engine once where i ran a tap through all the bolt holes and thought they were clean, i don't know why, may be the tap was a little worn or something but the bolt hung up a little and gave a false torque reading. did you run a die nut on the bolt threads? just my opinion, but i would put in ARP head studs, change them one at a time and tq. to 50 lbs. and go up 10 at a time until you get to 85lbs. i like the 30 wt. oil and not the arp lube. if you use studs you can guarantee you won't bottom out and you have good clean threads. heat the motor up once and re-torque. then hydro the motor with the plugs out and look for leaks in the cylinders.


good luck, Fran

Did you do a cylinder leak test yet? I use ARP boltsand followed thier torque specs to a Tee. I have aluminum heads though... The idea is clamping force achieved. The lube reduces friction thereby transmiting more tension to the bolt and clamp area. I would put my money on a head bolt not sealing. Do any of your bolts go into the water jacket? If so, sealant is needed on threads in place of the lube. I called the ARP ph. number on the bottom of the sheet that came with the bolts to verify that.

I would remove the head bolts in the area, one at a time and look for coolant/water in the hole. Retorque, then check noxt bolt. You could even put a little positive prressure in the water jackets with an air compressor to see if you get flow out the bolt holes as you remove each.

Good luck, and you are right about me owing you for all your help.

BT

Thanks everyone for the help.

I have taken the general opinion and increased the torque from 65, to 75 ft lbs. or tighened until the threads started to strip out and then back off 1/4 turn, Which ever happened 1st. I done one at a time and checked for lenght and also double checked for possibly a hole into the water jackets in the bolts near the center where the leaks have shown up. All is fine and dry. Yes, I did just use the lube sparingly on the threads, but heavier under the bolt heads. All the bolts where screwed in by hand when assembled until they stopped against the heads, just so that I knew that the threads are good, this should have also of bleed off any chances of hyd'ing the bolts. I am holding off on going to studs right now until after I see if this is the cure. Have to believe the new bolts are ample, especially since it's not like I am building any boost while on the hose and trailer. Got 1 side done tonite. Did not do a compression check yet, will see what happens when I get to run it again this week. Then may do a leakdown test too. With great dyno numbers, I dismissed any cylinder sealing problem.

Jerry

US1 Fountain,
Hope it works out for you. You’re having way too much fun the last couple of days.
Dan

Jerry, I don't have any better info for ya. I think these guys pretty much coverd it. Good Luck, I hope the 75ftlbs does it. Doesn't it really piss you off sometimes. Seems like a never ending battle!!!

Eric

US1 Fountain,

I always appreciated your help. I wish I could help you out on this one. I too used the fel pro gaskets and never had a problem. I did cheat though and I didn't do the retorque one bolt at a time. I know the fel pro instructions tell you to do this but old habits are hard to break. I torqued mine down to 10 then 20 then 30 40... then 50, 55, 60 then 65 max for my engine.

You did the right thing and it should work. maybe some of the engine builders can shead some light on this.

good luck