540 Issues
02-26-2012, 12:56 PM
#181
Registered
iTrader: (2)
[QUOTE=mike tkach;3627408]mr gellner,after all the attempts mr schmidt has made to make you look like the bad guy,i cant understand why you would waste your time trying to talk to him,he had someone else take the engine in question apart,he has done his best to attempt to cast a bad lite on your business,but it appears that most have seen threw his bs.your reputation as a fair,honest,and excelent builder is well known in the boating world,and i assure you mr schmidt,s attempts to tarnish your reputation have failed.and just for the record,i do not know mr schmidt or mr gellner,never met or spoke to either of these gentelmen.[/QUOT
I agree. There is no need for you to come on here and defend yourself. Mr Schmidt hasn't hurt your reputation, he has just made himself look like a fool.
I agree. There is no need for you to come on here and defend yourself. Mr Schmidt hasn't hurt your reputation, he has just made himself look like a fool.
02-26-2012, 03:20 PM
#182
Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.
02-26-2012, 06:56 PM
#183
Registered
It's out of line IMO when you have a "secret source". It's nothing more than hearsay when you post something like that. Then say the proof is in the pudding? There is no proof, just something you "heard". That was my only problem with it.
Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.
Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.
I'm an outboard guy with no experience building big blocks. I'm no fool though. I wouldn't return the motors half way across the country to a guy who took 19 months two deliver my motors initally. Why would I think he would be honest with me about the problems, much less fix them in a timely fashion after taking 18 months to deliver the motors initally.
Yankey and Janelle are great people that would give you the shirt off of their backs if they thought you needed it. I hope everyone can go their seperate ways and move on from this.
Feel free to throw me under the bus with the schmidts.
I understand family health issues Dean and I hope your family member is doing better.
02-26-2012, 07:50 PM
#184
[QUOTE=bulletbob;3627718]Glad someone pointed that out. TickTach lost any creditability with those statements. I have never met Dean, but met Yankey when he moved to SC. The motors had 4 hours on them when I first saw the boat. The engines wern't ruined as some ( not Yankey) stated. There were no exhaust manifold leaks. I was there for the next 16 hrs. The motors never ran right and would stall.
Not looking to make things worse, just curious, if the motors never ran right the last 16hrs, did anyone try to figure out why ?
Not looking to make things worse, just curious, if the motors never ran right the last 16hrs, did anyone try to figure out why ?
02-26-2012, 08:32 PM
#185
Registered
iTrader: (3)
[Not looking to make things worse, just curious, if the motors never ran right the last 16hrs, did anyone try to figure out why ?[/QUOTE]
I'd like to know this too. Stalling can be something as simple as a couple adjustments of the idle mixture screws.
The way the intake gaskets looked, my guess would be they were ran with the intake gaskets leaking/split around the intake ports, probably leaned out and did some damage to the valves, hence the valve/leakdown issues. You can see the paint peeling around the gasket, from raw gas leaking out of the gasket onto the paint.
Not to mention it was clear water was getting in the oil, by the pictures and the fact he did 4 oil changes in 20 hours. Again, looks like the intake gaskets were leaking water in. Water in the oil is no good for lifters, bearings, cam, etc.
It could have been a situation that maybe something like the intakes weren't re-torqued, or not torqued enough, and Running 10, 15, 20 hours with vacuum leaks and water contaminated oil is a sure way to ruin a perfectly good set of engines.
It sounds like by the time Yankee got the engines back, and installed in the boat, he didn't want to deal with Gellner anymore. Did he call Gellner and tell him he found issues when he found them? Im just guessing, but It sounds like he has another mechanic/engine builder that tore them down, and told him all the info that he posted. I think whats questionable, is initially, yschmidt was insuating the engines were junk, and as if a child put them together. Most of us who been around a little, know that this wasn't Gellner's first set of engines he's built. Not that things cant happen, but....
They blamed the valvesprings, machine work, (although the clearances were ok), sealant on the intakes, etc. Mr. schmidt said the valvesprings were 135psi on the seat pressure(insuating that was a problem). He also stated that the engines never saw more than 5000RPM. And mostly ran well below 5000rpm. Even if 135psi wasn't enough seat pressure, i cannot see that causing lifter lofting off the cam lobes, or valves floating at those engine speeds. Wasn't some of merc racing's hyd roller engines set up with 130psi seat pressure? I know dean had told me before he normally sets up a hydraulic roller around 145 or 150 on the seat. Im sure they may lose a couple psi after some run time.
Maybe, if the issues with the water, or performance of the engines was addressed immediatly, Gellner could have had a crack at saving them before any damage was done.
We will probably never know what truly happened here. Were the engines not 100% when they were picked up from Gellner, or did someone else decide to work on them/tune/rig them. When problems were first found, should someone have solved the issues instead of continuing to run the engines when it was clear something was not right.
At this point, it sounds like both parties would be better off parting ways and putting it in the past!
I'd like to know this too. Stalling can be something as simple as a couple adjustments of the idle mixture screws.
The way the intake gaskets looked, my guess would be they were ran with the intake gaskets leaking/split around the intake ports, probably leaned out and did some damage to the valves, hence the valve/leakdown issues. You can see the paint peeling around the gasket, from raw gas leaking out of the gasket onto the paint.
Not to mention it was clear water was getting in the oil, by the pictures and the fact he did 4 oil changes in 20 hours. Again, looks like the intake gaskets were leaking water in. Water in the oil is no good for lifters, bearings, cam, etc.
It could have been a situation that maybe something like the intakes weren't re-torqued, or not torqued enough, and Running 10, 15, 20 hours with vacuum leaks and water contaminated oil is a sure way to ruin a perfectly good set of engines.
It sounds like by the time Yankee got the engines back, and installed in the boat, he didn't want to deal with Gellner anymore. Did he call Gellner and tell him he found issues when he found them? Im just guessing, but It sounds like he has another mechanic/engine builder that tore them down, and told him all the info that he posted. I think whats questionable, is initially, yschmidt was insuating the engines were junk, and as if a child put them together. Most of us who been around a little, know that this wasn't Gellner's first set of engines he's built. Not that things cant happen, but....
They blamed the valvesprings, machine work, (although the clearances were ok), sealant on the intakes, etc. Mr. schmidt said the valvesprings were 135psi on the seat pressure(insuating that was a problem). He also stated that the engines never saw more than 5000RPM. And mostly ran well below 5000rpm. Even if 135psi wasn't enough seat pressure, i cannot see that causing lifter lofting off the cam lobes, or valves floating at those engine speeds. Wasn't some of merc racing's hyd roller engines set up with 130psi seat pressure? I know dean had told me before he normally sets up a hydraulic roller around 145 or 150 on the seat. Im sure they may lose a couple psi after some run time.
Maybe, if the issues with the water, or performance of the engines was addressed immediatly, Gellner could have had a crack at saving them before any damage was done.
We will probably never know what truly happened here. Were the engines not 100% when they were picked up from Gellner, or did someone else decide to work on them/tune/rig them. When problems were first found, should someone have solved the issues instead of continuing to run the engines when it was clear something was not right.
At this point, it sounds like both parties would be better off parting ways and putting it in the past!
02-26-2012, 08:40 PM
#186
Registered
iTrader: (3)
It's out of line IMO when you have a "secret source". It's nothing more than hearsay when you post something like that. Then say the proof is in the pudding? There is no proof, just something you "heard". That was my only problem with it.
Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.
Like I said I was hoping to learn something from this thread. And after this thread spiraled now I have. I've learned that when people talk behind keyboards all respect goes out the window. Oh wait, I already knew that.
02-26-2012, 08:54 PM
#187
Registered
iTrader: (3)
Glad someone pointed that out. TickTach lost any creditability with those statements. I have never met Dean, but met Yankey when he moved to SC. The motors had 4 hours on them when I first saw the boat. The engines wern't ruined as some ( not Yankey) stated. There were no exhaust manifold leaks. I was there for the next 16 hrs. The motors never ran right and would stall.
I'm an outboard guy with no experience building big blocks. I'm no fool though. I wouldn't return the motors half way across the country to a guy who took 19 months two deliver my motors initally. Why would I think he would be honest with me about the problems, much less fix them in a timely fashion after taking 18 months to deliver the motors initally.
Yankey and Janelle are great people that would give you the shirt off of their backs if they thought you needed it. I hope everyone can go their seperate ways and move on from this.
Feel free to throw me under the bus with the schmidts.
I understand family health issues Dean and I hope your family member is doing better.
I'm an outboard guy with no experience building big blocks. I'm no fool though. I wouldn't return the motors half way across the country to a guy who took 19 months two deliver my motors initally. Why would I think he would be honest with me about the problems, much less fix them in a timely fashion after taking 18 months to deliver the motors initally.
Yankey and Janelle are great people that would give you the shirt off of their backs if they thought you needed it. I hope everyone can go their seperate ways and move on from this.
Feel free to throw me under the bus with the schmidts.
I understand family health issues Dean and I hope your family member is doing better.
02-26-2012, 09:31 PM
#188
Banned
Just for the record we run 145-150 closed seat pressure on N/A hydralic roller camshafts all the time with zero issues. Supercharged applications I run more. Hope we can all lay this to rest already. And I just would like to say thank you to all for their support. Like I have said before this is my life and passion . I eat , sleep, build , and breath this stuff and care about what I do. I try to help anyone weather a client or not with helpful advice. We haven't won multiple Offshore World and Division Championship because of working 9-5 hours. I'm here 18 hr days through the week and the weeks are usually 12's sat. and sunday. Again anyone who knows me knows I treat there powerplants like they are my kids. Thanks again!
