Wow Ray, really surprised by this post from you. Please see your first post in this thread, and see after that posted how I followed your advice and will be doing the tests you suggested through out the season.

The reason I started this thread is because there is no book or rule for this, we just don't know. Maybe they are ok, maybe they are not. But to piss money into the wind to be ultra super safe doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I am willing to take the chance, because many have, on both cars and boats in the past. I bought this as a good deal, and have room to "gamble" as you state. But beyond that doing multiple leak down tests, constant oil and filter tests, and inspections through out the season is more than just gas and pray.

You seemed to have had a change of heart, or maybe you had too much to drink tonight. Is money tight, or did an angry customer ruin your day? To come on here and attack me with this sarcastic comment out of left field is a phucking joke. Even more so for someone that makes his money off this industry! Why not stick to you original post? Or do you shoot off at the mouth so much that you forget what you say?

You can rest assured that I for one will never do business with you, nor with anyone within ear shot of my choice of docking location for the night.

Class act Ray, I have "heard" about the other side of Raylar, however this is my first experience. To think that i have even defended you in the past?? Thanks for the usefull insight. Now if I could only get the time back I spent on your site considering 496 upgrades for the boat I wanted. Lots of 496s out there, good chance I will wind up with a few some day.....anyone have the number for Tyler Crockett? This guy has obviously made all the millions he will ever need, and is now picked up a hobby of showing the world the ONLY way....sarcastically.

I am sorry and apologize if I was to frank seeming shallow with my comments. What I was trying to say in a kidding - funny way is that you are using a lot of luck to keep some very risky engines running through what could be a shortened season for you. I was not critizing your choice of a great buy on a boat or its engines but just pointing out as others on this thread have done to use our expierences to possibly help avoid future problems for some engines that will be fairly expensive to repair or rebuild. I realize you will take good advice and do some easy checks during usage to make sure there are no obvious problems going wrong with them, but as many know the obvious is not always what shows up as bigger problems in engines that have not received proper service and usage.
Remember I have nothing to gain from my comments and advise with you, as I will never see or do work on your engines. I have nothing 99% of the time to gain on these forums when I offer my knowledge and experience, it is always given to HELP not HURT!
I was just trying to make a good case for doing some additional internal checks and possible replacements that may save you time and money in the future. Do take that advise and do some of these things is totally your call and your choice, not mine!

Please call Tyler Crockett, Bob Madera, Eddie Young, Bob @ Full Throttle, Dave at Innovation, Mike @ Sterling, Fred @ Mercury Racing, Randy @ Cobra,Ritchie @ Zul and quite a few other experienced builders more knowledgable than I and I am sure in this exact situation they will probably have given you pretty much the same advise. Sorry if I forgot to plug a few other worthy builders!
If my knowledge and assistance thru comments is being taken as a slap or criticism or to belittle you, again I apologize, that was not my intent!
I also feel it is important for all thread starters and posters to realize on this OSO technical forum is that a lot of performance boaters with a lot less engine, mechanical knowledge and issues experience are on this forum dailey reading this information, look at the number of views on this thread alone versus posters! I and some gracious others on OSO feel it is important to give them a broader -whole story input and approach to these kinds of situations so that they can hoepfully make good informed decisions for their engines and boats.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your boat and its engines and I hope they run and run and run without ever being touched!
If you do have that "Lucky Charm" luck then I hope a little will rub of on all the rest us us who need it.

One of my favorite sayings "I'd rather be lucky than good!

In my life and times I can honestly say I have always been luckier than good.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Fwiw. My old boat sat in storage for 6 years before I bought it. I changed the oil, fuel, and plugs. Replaced both bellows and all rubber on the transom. The boat fired right up and ran perfect for 4 years. I sold the boat and its still running great for the new owner. Motors were 454's. A lot of people around here are scared of their own shadow. In the end its your call and I wish you well with your new boat.

Just wanted to update you guys after the first season on these engines.

Ran as if I was breaking them in on the trailer last May. New high zinc oil and extra additive for that flat tappet cam. After 30 mins of run time dumped the oil and cut the filters open. Filters had dirt, but I could not find obvious metal.

Both starters needed to be replaced the first two weeks. Sitting around really got to them. My biggest problem this year was the crap in the fuel tanks. The tanks were dumped but for the first 1/4 of the season the internal corrosion falling off would clog the filters. I also had to replace both mechanical and both electric fuel pumps. Looking back it may have only been the mechanical, but Merc racing advised me my low fuel pressure problem was the electric....they were wrong

Did a lot of cruising early on staying below 4000 rpm and out of boost until I saw steady fuel pressure and tanks were clean. My first two weekends I changed the oil filters and cut the old ones open to be cautious, they were perfectly clean.

Finally let her eat mid June, boat ran great! Never looked back all summer long. I still spent the majority of the summer never WOT longer than a few minutes. Had a brief scare on my first 100 degree high humidity day, engine lost so much top end power I thought I popped them both. These engines are prob the worst power loss on hot humid days I have ever experienced. The push from low to high 80's had never taken so long

Some other minor issues through the season, impellar housings needed replacement. Even though they looked new, one cracked so I changed them both. Front blower seal leaked a tiny bit of oil on both sides.

Two weeks ago I was at 57 hrs from the 3.7 hrs it had when it came to me last winter. The last time I changed the filters or oil was about 8 hrs. These engines used NO oil all season long, not one bit. I was impressed, that is a first for me

At 57 hrs I changed the oil filters again in preperation for our fall fun run. They were clean after cutting them open, I had no excuses not to let this thing runn all day long WOT. Hit the run on a high 60's degree day, let her warm up and spun 5200 RPMs all day long. No issues, engines did great.


Now that my season is over the engines are coming out. Sending blowers to DPME for rebuilds, bearing carrier mods, and teflon strips.
Possible chiller upgrade if the teflon strips add boost.

Heads are coming off, head gaskets, head rebuild and spring replacement, possible change to full roller set up but have not decided.

Unless we see something out of the ordinary the lower end is staying together. I see no reason to take it down at 60 hrs.

Blocks and bilge will get paint, and everything that I can't reach will get polished or painted. The engines look as if they aged 10 years in 6 months, a lot of the paint fell off the block and my painter got clear coat overspray in the engine compartment by accident. I have some things to keep me busy this winter

Thanks for all your help

4bus,glad to hear that everything worked out for you,i stayed clear on giving my thoughts because you had plenty of people telling you what to do.if it was my boat,i would have changed oil&filters,dumped the gas and replaced with fresh 93,changed fuel filters,removed distributers,primed engines,retimed engines,and went boating.imo,one of the best things you can do for the engines is get rid of the flat tappet cams and replace with hp500 efi cams,or call bob madera for some cams.you have a really nice boat,enjoy it.

Thanks Mike!

I have talk to Bob quite a bit about the valve train. What a great guy to give me an hour of his time without asking for a dollar.

He told me an upgrade to a roller will net me about 70 HP, however he stressed there is really nothing wrong with the cams that are in it, except that they can not be replaced with the quality of metal that was used in the past. He also will not grind a new flat tappet cam so in the event of a future failure on one, it would require both to be changed. He is a straight shooter (uggh did I just call him shooter?) and said after an inspection he is confident that with the right oil my cams would last until a full engine freshen at 300 hrs.

I say I am on the fence, however I am leaning towards the roller set up. I have quite a list of improvements that also have to be made this off season, not to mention I am afraid to pull the oil in the XR's and see what it is in there I am also afraid of the cam upgrade, ecu reprogram, and teflon blower upgrade putting me at 700hp in front of XR's. Maybe if I wait on the cam change I will have better drive options at 300 hrs and can just go full alumin head and shoot for 800 hp

Other things on the winter list

vacu flush head
new cabin carpet (the color washed out_
new cockpit carpet
new mooring and full cover
a few more speakers (its a disease)
Monster gauges and new one piece dash, the stocks look great until I park next to a newer fountain :/

Everyhing above is a 100 percent go for this winter, however I am also quoting a slight paint change in the rear fade to something more modern. The paint and roller cam I am on the fence about.

I bought the boat right, however I am slowly turning it into a not so good deal

If you go with the roller cams you will need remaps which will add to the expense. Along with bungs for O2 sensors for tuning. Also, if you get in the 700hp range your drives may not like you either. Just kinda throwing things out there. Sometimes it seems like a downward spiral.

I hear ya. I hear precision marine has a boat load of maps for these engines. He is telling me he has a stock improved, cam mod, boost mod, and cam and boost mod that are all proven. I know what you are saying, the best tunes are on water tunes with real world afr reading....but anything has to be better than stock. These engines run so rich with the stock ecu its a wonder they run at all

Yeah, my map is from a very similar setup to mine (I did not have it tuned). I run my fuel pressure slightly higher to be safe and I have very little black soot on the transom. When mine was stock the transom was black all the time.

I did head gaskets and the cam broke. Do cams.
.030 over, cleaned head and block surfaces(pistons are .010 below deck at TDC, Crane 16HR00110 cam I .610 298* and E .632 306*, Chillers, 3.5 pulley, stock ECU and ignition, 200 hours, 704HP. No black soot, no melted pistons. Dyno fuel #'s were great and the engine was still making power when the limiter kicked in.