trying to wake up from a 15 yr nap.....
11-02-2012 | 10:29 PM
#61
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From: Cleveland, Ohio
Little algebra for ya....It takes x amount of fuel to make y horsepower. It takes y horsepower to move a particular boat lets say 50 mph. So no matter if you have 700 peak horsepower or 200 if it only takes 200 to push the boat to 50 that's all your using and it only takes x amount of fuel to make 200 hp. If all she makes is 200 and 50 is topped out youre destroying that engine every time out. But 50 mph cruise in a boat capable of 75+ is a Sunday ride. Granted its not this cut and dry. Prop pitch load etc all contribute and throw the numbers off but propped right for your use fuel consumption only becomes an issue when you push the sticks to the dash. If you have no self control go small blocks and save for rebuilds lol.
I really do understand your theory...even before the math lesson...lol. My thoughts of small blocks working for me really began with the "balls out haulin the mail runs" not being all that important to me. I get the bigger motor moving the same weight boat with greater ease at cruise rpm...thus increasing fuel economy and engine life. The right boat at the right money and I may consider big motors.
11-02-2012 | 10:39 PM
#62
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From: Cleveland, Ohio
It's hard to say- I'd say if anything at cruise its maybe a touch better but if I'm running it hard it will use more fuel. There is nothing worse than an underpowered boat because you're always running it hard. I find it funny when people by little engines in boats because they think they will get better mileage. Unless you're just idling you will get better mileage as your power increases up to a point. At least thats been my findings. I agree with most of the boats that Mild Thunder listed. I will say this though, there are not many boats that are built better than Formulas. They are not the fastest boat out there but they are built like tanks. I've rebuilt 3 over the last 5 years and I've yet to see a rotten transom or stringer or any wood for that matter. And some of these boats had sat outside for years uncovered. The biggest issue are the wood modular panels on the side. These will usually rot out, but its an easy, cheap fix.
The Scarab Panther has great lines and is one of my favorite Scarabs; however, I've read that they frequently have rot issues due to how they were layed up. If you can find a good one though, they are a nice boat.
Sonics are great boats as well. Built tough but again they are heavy and will need power to go fast.
Either way you should be able to find a nice BBC 272 with trailer for $15000.00 or less. I really like my 292 and you can pick them up for around $20-23 for a nice one. Just make sure you get 454 Mags and K-Planes. The best of the 3 is the 311, they are about the same price as 292. I don't know how far you intend to tow your boat but I tow mine locally with a BMW X5 with a V-8. It tows it without an issue!
The Scarab Panther has great lines and is one of my favorite Scarabs; however, I've read that they frequently have rot issues due to how they were layed up. If you can find a good one though, they are a nice boat.
Sonics are great boats as well. Built tough but again they are heavy and will need power to go fast.
Either way you should be able to find a nice BBC 272 with trailer for $15000.00 or less. I really like my 292 and you can pick them up for around $20-23 for a nice one. Just make sure you get 454 Mags and K-Planes. The best of the 3 is the 311, they are about the same price as 292. I don't know how far you intend to tow your boat but I tow mine locally with a BMW X5 with a V-8. It tows it without an issue!
Anyway, in short, why do you think 311 to be best of the three you mentioned. Where are you guys finding these (key word) NICE boats at $15 to $23? All I find in that range is well worn or beat 700+hr BB boats that will need re-done (in&out) in the near future.
Always liked Scarab Panther and Nova Nova Spyder boats but Formula 272/311 tops the favorites list.
11-02-2012 | 11:23 PM
#63
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,332
Likes: 73
From: chicago
It's hard to say- I'd say if anything at cruise its maybe a touch better but if I'm running it hard it will use more fuel. There is nothing worse than an underpowered boat because you're always running it hard. I find it funny when people by little engines in boats because they think they will get better mileage. Unless you're just idling you will get better mileage as your power increases up to a point. At least thats been my findings. I agree with most of the boats that Mild Thunder listed. I will say this though, there are not many boats that are built better than Formulas. They are not the fastest boat out there but they are built like tanks. I've rebuilt 3 over the last 5 years and I've yet to see a rotten transom or stringer or any wood for that matter. And some of these boats had sat outside for years uncovered. The biggest issue are the wood modular panels on the side. These will usually rot out, but its an easy, cheap fix.
The Scarab Panther has great lines and is one of my favorite Scarabs; however, I've read that they frequently have rot issues due to how they were layed up. If you can find a good one though, they are a nice boat.
Sonics are great boats as well. Built tough but again they are heavy and will need power to go fast.
Either way you should be able to find a nice BBC 272 with trailer for $15000.00 or less. I really like my 292 and you can pick them up for around $20-23 for a nice one. Just make sure you get 454 Mags and K-Planes. The best of the 3 is the 311, they are about the same price as 292. I don't know how far you intend to tow your boat but I tow mine locally with a BMW X5 with a V-8. It tows it without an issue!
The Scarab Panther has great lines and is one of my favorite Scarabs; however, I've read that they frequently have rot issues due to how they were layed up. If you can find a good one though, they are a nice boat.
Sonics are great boats as well. Built tough but again they are heavy and will need power to go fast.
Either way you should be able to find a nice BBC 272 with trailer for $15000.00 or less. I really like my 292 and you can pick them up for around $20-23 for a nice one. Just make sure you get 454 Mags and K-Planes. The best of the 3 is the 311, they are about the same price as 292. I don't know how far you intend to tow your boat but I tow mine locally with a BMW X5 with a V-8. It tows it without an issue!
Down below, the heavy cabinetry and wood trim, became a mess. Constantly down there reattaching things after a run in rough water. Cockpit floor tank access panel broke loose, from hull flex. Severe stress cracking on the deck, wide enough to pass a quarter or nickel thru.
I wish it was more solid, because I'd still own it. One of the best looking offshore boats. I remember the 357 formulas were also known for lots of hull flex in rough water. Maybe the smaller formulas were better from the 80's.
Not just saying it because its what I own know, but i ran my fountain thru some water, that probably would have done fatal damage to the 402. I think it was too heavy for a liner style boat with a glued deck joint. No doubt the formula smoked my 38 fountain in size and amenities.
11-03-2012 | 07:37 AM
#65
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 7
From: Sandown, NH - Sebago Lake Region, ME
I just read all these posts and would have to agree with most regarding SBC vs. BBC (which I am sure you are tired of hearing).
Look at it this way, most of us guys who own older boats spend countless hours on the swap shop forum looking for deals on parts. It's not very often you find parts for small blocks and that can mean the difference of spending a couple hundred on the Swap shop or a couple thousand to buy new!
With regards to other boats, I would definetly look at other brands in the same era. I own an 84 scarab S-type and love the older lines! I also just went through a 4 year total strip down and rebuild and now she looks like a new boat!
I know there was some talk about the fuel tank earlier on, I had to replace mine and out of all the jobs this was probably the most frustrating! I literally had to cut the tank in half in the boat to be able to remove it because the tank actually went under the cabin bulkhead and the engine compartment bulkhead! Once it was out I had one made that was a bit shorter so it would go in easier!
You want in depth photos of what you might be up against, check out my build thread link in my signature
I am not trying to scare you but a lot of these guys make very valid points about the engine argument and this older style boats, look over your options very carefully before narrowing the optionn to one particular brand/boat!
Thanks
Jim
Look at it this way, most of us guys who own older boats spend countless hours on the swap shop forum looking for deals on parts. It's not very often you find parts for small blocks and that can mean the difference of spending a couple hundred on the Swap shop or a couple thousand to buy new!
With regards to other boats, I would definetly look at other brands in the same era. I own an 84 scarab S-type and love the older lines! I also just went through a 4 year total strip down and rebuild and now she looks like a new boat!
I know there was some talk about the fuel tank earlier on, I had to replace mine and out of all the jobs this was probably the most frustrating! I literally had to cut the tank in half in the boat to be able to remove it because the tank actually went under the cabin bulkhead and the engine compartment bulkhead! Once it was out I had one made that was a bit shorter so it would go in easier!
You want in depth photos of what you might be up against, check out my build thread link in my signature
I am not trying to scare you but a lot of these guys make very valid points about the engine argument and this older style boats, look over your options very carefully before narrowing the optionn to one particular brand/boat!
Thanks
Jim
