Joe,..... congratulations!! Now if the insurance company will stand up & if Jim will follow thru. I think I would ask for it in writing from him, that he admits liability and is filing a claim. That may be harder to get!!

Now I have to compose my letter and see what happens.

Blown Formula,

It just so happens that I received a letter from Jim today.

Stating that he sbmitted a claim to his insurance company for the damage to my engine. Things must be slowing down At AZ Speed
I heard he layed off 2 people.

I hope you get out this weekend. Haulen ass and sucken gas!!!!! :D :cool:

I will keep you posted

Joe D.

I am planning on "rockin' on"....so to speak!!

Here is the latest!! I am disgusted!!!

I got my new Aeromotive pump and retested both the rebuilt (previously 8-20-02) and the new one:
Rebuilt pump- 15 sec= 1qt fuel
"pinch" test- able to stop flow with finger over line.

New pump- 15 sec= 2 qt fuel
"pinch" test- fuel went everywhere!! no way could you stop this!!

Installed new pump and checked flow with a constant 12 v lead.It ran and pumped fine. Hooked up to relay & engine fuel pump lead.
Started the engine and same thing al over again.... the engine ran for like 30-40 sec and died......checked voltage at the pump when running (thru the relay) and found 5.4 volts!! Aha!! checked input side of relay (not running) and found 10v......replaced input lead wire (replaced the relay earlier) and now have 12-13v to pump........engine started and ran fine....in the driveway..... started #2 engine....ran fine .....launched the boat!!! YEH !!
#2 engine is now acting funny, like it is starving for fuel, but pressure is up......#1 sounds & feels really strong.
#2 REALLY starts acting wierd (like #1 did before it blew !!).....
docked the boat......checked everything, engines start fine but now BOTH engines run for the 30-40 seconds and die....... & fuel pressure is present when it dies...................... more deep thinking to come.....l!!!!
The problem cannot be the pump any longer.



:confused: :confused:

Give us some symtoms of what it is doing when you say running funny. IE eratic idle , surging , missfire ? any weird sounds ?

engine #2 started to loose rpm.......like it was leaning out.....
just like #1 did when it melted down......but I had no oil leaks, backfires or anything......just sort of lost power and now seems to miss. It dies at idle after 30-40 sec. when goosed, the rpm go way up (higher than it should) and idles faster than normal for longer than is normal before returning to normal idle speed adn then dieing after 30-40 sec.
engine #1 is normal except the dieing after 30-40 sec. smooth idle until they die!

Blown Formula;

I don't know anything about Whipples but maybe this problem is not related to the Whipples.

Can you scan your e.c.u.'s for any codes? Also, if you have access to a scanner, check the sensor values. I agree with what you said, it sounds like it is running lean again.:eek: :eek: The fact that the motor tends to race up higher and longer than it should sounds to me like it may be a problem with the I.A.C. motor. Is it possible that it ( the I.A.C.) is opening too much and for too long?? That would also cause a lean condition. The throttle blades are closed, so the t.p.s. tells the e.c.u. that the motor is at idle. Now the e.c.u. will put the injectors on idle by minimizing their pulse width. The e.c.u. doesn't know that the i.a.c. motor is opened too far forcing all that extra air in, thereby creating a LEAN CONDITION....

Maybe I am reaching here. What do you guys think??

checkmate: It sounds reasonable.....except I drove a hundred miles last night to the lake to take a new set of plugs for both engines to my mechanics friend.....I also pulled a couple of plugs out of the engines....
#1-port engine-new/rebuilt- plugs were wet/damp & real sooty but not black.
#2-starboard- original eng- older plugs about 15 hours on them but ran great before fuel system change- plugs very carboned up & damp/black threads as well as black electrode & porcelain.

These conditions now make me believe I am very rich at idle.... due to wet/damp & sooty/black carbon. I am having the plugs changed by my mechanic before next weekend. I can then start fresh, lower the fuel pressure and see what the plugs tell me then & if it will then idle. I am ordering me a code reader today I hope......

back to the the post from about a month ago"BOOBS AND BLOWERS",if you got either your gonna have trouble....sounds like your just to rich.....should be somewhere between 32-38....you can accually adj it while there idling....feel your exh change temp.....they usually end up a little warmer than usual at idle only when there adj right.....watch the exh for raw fuel,black smoke.....

I think your right..... my manual gauges on the fuel rail oscillate terribly, and then you have the electric gauge with it's built in error( of how much?????). I am ordering 2 liquid filled gauges today. I am determined to beat this thing!!!

BLOWN FORMULA,

yea looks like your flooding the motors at idle. when the engines are cold the ECU goes into a enrichment mode. I think ASM can adjust this mode. this mode is based on feedback from the coolant temp sensor. I think the OEM setting is 120 deg. Checkmate 454mag makes a good point. get the scan tool and check for error codes and check the readings from the MAnifold air pressure sensor,throttle postion sensor, Idle air control ,coolant temp sensor and the absolute manifold air pressure sensor. also check for anything restricting the air flow to the IAC Motor. restricted air flow will cause the IAC to keep searching for the right counts , to idle correctly. you might want to open the secondary blade on the throttle body just a bit. there should be an ajustment screw located on the linkage.

JDELO

:) OK>>>>> So I just ordered my Rinda Technologies Mercruiser Scan tool @399.00 + overnight shipping
also ordered new liquid filled 1 1/2" mechanical gauges for the fuel rails from Summit....19.95 each and another new EGT sensor probe from C-P Performance......
I WILL have the proper tools to diagnose this!!

jdelo,your exactly right about the enrichment in a cold motor,but PC wants the stats out,which means someone hasnt repogrammed these things for the chargers.....i assumed somebody has!!!!!!!

BlownFormula;

Can that scanner give you live data? That is what you really need, not just a code reader. If it doesn't I would not waste your money on it. You need to see the sensor readings while the motor is running. If you were closer to me I would gladly put my Quicksilver Scanner on for you.

Checkmate 454Mag,

The rinda scan tool captures data in real time.
I don't know if it can record and store data like your quick sliver tool.
I've used the quicksliver tool and like it alot.

JDELO

That sounds good for a $400. scanner. I didn't think it would do all of that. That's alot cheaper than what I paid for my Quicksilver!!

scaner
 

Where did you get a scaner for $400.00 ?

Scanner available at - Rinda Technologies.com $399.00 + freight

Rinda makes the Mercruiser scanner.....which Mercruiser sells for $1000-1200 !!!Recieved it yesterday.

Full Mercruiser functionality, but does not include a code book, just call BAM for the book you need...... you needed that anyway!!! Terrific deal !!

" THE FIX !!!! "

But first, let me say "THANKS to Aeromotive tech, Brett.... The man is dedicated and was calling ME to help !! He was much more helpful & interested in solving the problem than Mercury Racing or Procharger.

Now, the END of the story....

Thru discussions with Aero-, I reveled I had ordered oil filled pressure gauges to control needle oscillation. Bret asked for details.....extreme & rapid needle bounce of at least 20-30# of the needle......this was happening on both engines & I assumed it was normal then....Brett said it indicates a problem of the system & wanted some more tests done. I took of Wednesday & went to the lake again!! I removed the fuel line to the fuel rail & installed a pressure gauge at that point.......the needle was ROCK STEADY !!! The regulator was now determined to be fine !! (again !)......Called Brett back & discussed lengths of fuel line & location & distances of the fuel line from regulator to pump.
Brett said to move regulator to the top of engine as close to the fuel rail as possible. (I will explain why soon!)....Pretty major job with twins....
Well, in short, turned on the pump and the needle "bounch" was now +/- 2# 1 mark +/- of set pressure. Started the engine !!!
As soon as it fired, the fuel pressure running was only 22#, not 40# as set before !!! The engine had been starving for fuel with the regulator mounted 4-5 feet away from fuel rail.
Mercruiser uses "batch or bulk" type injection. All injectors fire at the same time. This creates a "hammering" of fuel in the fuel line. Liquid does not compress, but fuel line will flex or expand. When the injectors would "squirt", the pressue would drop to well below 30# & when they closed the pressure would soar to over 40#. The Gaffrig gauge on the regulator was showing a steady 40#, we were seeing this fluctuation in pressure but thought it was normal for those gauges...... moved the reg to the engine & cured th problem...... now here are my complaints:

Procharger EXPRESSLY told me it was OK to mount to the bulkhead & not the engine.
Procharger initially sent me the new regulator and a rubber vacuum or boost reference line (I thought). This normal & as it was on my last engine......they also sent me two brass o-ringed plugs to plug the fuel rail.......no instructions, the next week I ordered a Install manual.....
again asked about the regulator & we discussed the problem.... PC told me the fuel pressure should be NO MORE than 28-20# max !! (per Merc it's 37# min). I also found out after recieving the manual the rubber hose was for the regulator air bleed, not the boost reference! They sent no "hard" hose or fittings for the boost reference hookup!!! (another week lost!!) I asked to be sure the parts would be here by WEDNESDAY!! Big family reunion this weekend, must have the boat.....!!! Today is Thursday & I have no parts from PC !!!
:mad:

Due entirely to information and questions answered by Procharger technical "team" I have LOST 3 weeks of boating !!!
AEROMOTIVE saved the day, & it was Prochargers instructions & advise that were the problem all along!! I am sendina letter to Accessible Technologies about the degredation of their tech help. It used to be very good.....no more!!:mad: The engines now run, but I still cannot use the boat due to no boost refernce line or fittings!! This will be week FOUR...... it only took a week to rebuild & machine the engine !!!:D

I agree with you on procharger tech support. I have emailed in past my displeasure. The problem is you are not talking to the correct person. Of course the person I talked to knew what he was talking about, but he is gone now. I think last person I talked to was Mike & he took care of problems right away. I would suggest either ask for mike, (I will verify that is guy I have been talking to) or first questions you should ask tech guy is to see if he knows about your type of setup. They all will tell you they know what they are talking about. In past after asking tech guy a few simple questions that I already knew answers to I knew to keep talking to him or someone else.

For you whipple guys that are going to try to hold this over prochargers head, is whipple has problems too. Before I procharged I taked to a whipple tech, this was before I got on OSO & found out about Dusty(? Dustin?) I did not believe info guy gave me was correct & found out latter he was not correct. I know of people that I have talked to that have issues with both.

Amen, Turbo!!! I do ask for someone informed of my installation at PC, last week I was talking to "Brian"- the hell on wheels tech that knows everything!! Hogwash !!! Balderdash!! (how's that folks? !!) Brian was wrong about everything I asked him!! You are right, I used to talk to Mike or Mark.... now they knew their stuff, not so today.... It's sad, but true everywhere I guess.....
But on the positive side, they did speak english as a "1st" lanquage!!:D

I believe my regulator is a vortech and mounted right to the front of the fuel rail. Isn't this where the factory one is usually mounted? Seems odd PC would have you relocate it to the bulk head. What a pain! Glad you are getting things worked out.:)

Ray panic !! I just got back from my Labor Day weekend last night.... it was GREAT!!!
To clear up any misunderstanding here..... I asked PC if I COULD mount the regulator on the bulkhead and they said I could put it antwhere, no problem. Needless to say it WAS a BIG problem.
Now everything works great.

A word now about AEROMOTIVE tech Brett !!

When I went to the last a week ago last Thursday, Brett called me at the lake to discuss this again..... he also called me after he received my rebuilt defect pump.... he called me again..... it tested fine on the bench, even though it tested differently than the replacement he sent me...... He had also called PC Brian to advise him of the bad advise he was giving!!!

I am impressed with AEROMOTIVE tech assist.....great attitude.
:D

blown formula,
I am glad to hear you finially had a good weekend. Sounds like all this chatter on OSO has made the guys at Aeromotive respond with great intensity.. I have been following your progress and success. I have learned a few things from your discussions with others. Thank you for the input.
I have been running a Paxton pump for a few years and quickly checked the filter for junk and none was found. Being naturally aspriated I dont run into some of the problems that you guys have, but the fuel supply basics are the same and good to know. When I contacted Paxton a few years ago about designing a fuel system they were very helpful. I am limited in horsepower so I have a bit of a fudge factor, but so far the EFI has not bit me. This summer it has stayed running, and I hope to make some refinements this winter to keep it running..
Thanks for the lively discussion!!

Happy Boating with good pressure!!

Dick