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Originally Posted by Gimme Fuel
(Post 4041621)
I talked with Mike (MK Hammer) yesterday. Real nice guy and has built several motors from these blocks. He says they are cast by PBM/World and are of a better alloy than factory blocks. Cast in China and machined in USA (just like World blocks). Use all gen 6 hardware unlike the world blocks. Seems to be a good block. $1550 for just the block. Needs line hone/check, decks squated, and final hone to be ready to use. Im gonna check status of my block after the new year and maybe order one.
Here are some specifications; Notice USA made CASTING for both PBM/World, doesn't state for the aluminum blocks. BLOCKS - PBM IRON BBC COMPETITION BLOCKS • USA made casting • Dedicated main oiling • 1045 Billet steel main caps • ARP 1/2" main studs • Four bolt main caps all locations • Clearanced for 4.375"(9.800 DECK) / 4.750" (10.200" DECK) stroke • Standard BBC cam bearing size Torque specs: Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs Frt & rear Outer Main s 100 Ft Lbs Center Splayed Mains 100 Ft Lbs BBC SPORTSMAN BLOCKS • USA made casting • Dedicated main oiling • Nodular cast main caps • ARP 1/2" main studs ( excluding ST blocks) • Four bolt main caps all locations • Clearanced for 4.375"(9.800 DECK) / 4.750" (10.200" DECK) stroke • Standard BBC cam bearing size Torque specs: Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs Frt & rear Outer Main s 100 Ft Lbs Center Splayed Mains 100 Ft Lbs SBF COMPETITION BLOCKS • USA made casting • Dedicated main oiling • 1045 Billet steel main caps • ARP 1/2" main studs • Four bolt main caps all locations • Clearanced for 3.400"(8.200" DECK 302) / 4.125" (9.500" DECK 351) stroke • Standard SBF cam bearing size • Drilled for 6 bolts per cylinder head Torque specs: Inner Mains 100 Ft Lbs Frt & Rear Outer Main s 45 Ft Lbs Center Splayed Mains 70 Ft Lbs MERLIN III - BB CHEVY Now in it’s generation, World’s continually upgraded MERLIN cast iron block is the perfect foundation for any big block Chevrolet engine assembly. Made of a high density iron and manufactured to QS-9000 specifications on just two fixtures to eliminate tolerance stacking common on production lines, the MERLIN III can be bored to a maximum of 4.625” and is clearanced for a 4.375” crank on a 9.800 Deck height and 4.750 on a 10.200 Deck height. With a reinforced bottom end featuring 4-bolt splayed main caps, the MERLIN III can handle serious horsepower with complete reliability. It’s an excellent all-around value too! TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS Material: High Density Cast Iron Deck Height: 9.800 or 10.200" Deck Thickness: .600" minimum Cam Bearings: Standard Chevrolet Main Bearings: Standard Chevrolet Camshaft Location: Stock Lifter Bores: Indexed (stock .8437" bore) Bore: 4.240 (hone to 4.250") or 4.490 (hone to 4.500") Maximum Bore: 4.625" Cylinder Wall Thickness: .250" at 4.600" bore Water Jackets: Expanded for better cooling Lubrication: Priority main oiling system Filtration: Integral mount for spin-on filter Oil Pan Rails: Solid (stock width) Crank Clearance: 4.750" stroke crank (10.2) 3.75” stroke (9.8) Main Caps: Nodular iron or billet steel Fuel Pump: OEM mount Starter: OEM mount Motor Mounts: Dual (front and side) Cylinder Head Bolt.StudHoles: Blind tapped to prevent leaks Weight: Approximately 270 lbs. n studs BLOCKS-PBM ALUMINUM PBM HAS DEVELOPED A STRONG AND AFFORDABLE ALUMINUM BLOCK. THE PBM ALUMINUM BLOCK IS IDEAL FOR RACING OR THE ULTIMATE STREET ROD. •SIAMESED CYLINDERS •TWO PIECE REAR MAIN SEAL •IMPROVED WATER JACKETS •FULLY SUPPORTED CYLINDERS •PLUG KIT PROVIDED WITH BLOCK •SUPERIOR MAIN WEBBING SBC (350) RACE ALUM. BLOCKS •Propriatary A356T7 Alum Casting •Dedicated main oiling •ARP main studs •6 bolt rear main cap •Full 1 inch deck thickness |
The specifications are from PBMs site. It's a little hard to use; if not used to looking parts up.
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I have the story on the blocks from PBM/ World. All the cast iron is done in Indiana, blocks machined in Ohio, most of the cast heads machined in NC. The Aluminum blocks cast in New Zealand. They do have a Gen 5, 6 block 1 piece rear seal, 4.495 bore . This block is cast in Indiana, also. Nothing that is cast comes from China, outside of your Scat, rods, cranks, things that you know are imported.
Let it be known that; Pro Comp makes a 502 block. |
To go along with MER, World Products was acquired by PBM/ERSON. They are owned by Engine Parts Warehouse, very good people to deal with! Most of the aluminum stuff is referred to BMP (Bill Mitchell Products) in NY. Also very good people to deal with. If it is in fact a PBM/World block it will be high quality USA made.
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Originally Posted by MER Performance
(Post 4043306)
I have the story on the blocks from PBM/ World. All the cast iron is done in Indiana, blocks machined in Ohio, most of the cast heads machined in NC. The Aluminum blocks cast in New Zealand. They do have a Gen 5, 6 block 1 piece rear seal, 4.495 bore . This block is cast in Indiana, also. Nothing that is cast comes from China, outside of your Scat, rods, cranks, things that you know are imported.
Let it be known that; Pro Comp makes a 502 block. |
I asked my machinist about the PBM blocks. He said he's done a handful of them. The machining is better than when World owned. But they still need more attention than a Dart. Added machining costs gives you a little cheaper block than a Dart but he doesn't think it's worth it cause the Dart is a much superior piece. I paid $1800 for my Dart block last summer he normally sells them for $1900.
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Originally Posted by Black Baja
(Post 4044183)
I asked my machinist about the PBM blocks. He said he's done a handful of them. The machining is better than when World owned. But they still need more attention than a Dart. Added machining costs gives you a little cheaper block than a Dart but he doesn't think it's worth it cause the Dart is a much superior piece. I paid $1800 for my Dart block last summer he normally sells them for $1900.
I can remember getting a couple of blocks that were bad. One was a new BBC, whole engine together, lifter bushings, decked. Put on dyno, had water going into oil, found fuel pump push rod bore had a porosity. World wanted me to send back, no credit for machining, said all blocks are vacuum tested??????? I over bored boss and made a bushing for push rod. Had another block that was only rough bored leaving .005 to take out. One of the cylinders looked like someone machined it a high feed rate and slower speed, left it so rough; I had to bore it again 4.530. So yes; they did have issues, with the World blocks and that's why; everything was redone by PBM. PBM did back in 2008 have a small block, cast in China and it was a mess. Out of the 200 they sold; I was informed 3-4 came back as bad. They had record of where each block that was sold and to whom . That was bad publicity for PBM, after investing in a block and going down the toilet with it, isn't something a smart business, would do twice. With out a doubt; Dart has a good product and has been around for a long time. Also in the past Dart, has had issues also and have been corrected. I guess; it just comes down to your preference of choice. Like cars, boats or anything else; you get what you pay for. Spend alot of money on a vehicle or buy one thats a throw-a-way, @ 100K miles. Statements against a companies product; in reference to being made in the USA or China CHEAP, is something worth finding out. |
I am sure PBM/World blocks are better pieces then when Mitchell was selling them, Customer support sucked back then I had to stop selling them as there were costing me to much money to repair them!!
Over the years I have seen some issues with Dart blocks and the Problems were taking care of the next day. PBM stopped selling Dart blocks because they were shut off from Dart because they introduced the Chinese Dart Look alike block which turned out to be junk. PBM misled a lot of people advertising high nickel and high density blocks which was far from the truth, And it took a long time for them to spill the beans where they came from. I did a lot of research on that block and found them to be junk. Here are the links Chinese look a like Little-M block http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0 Material make up of the Chinese Dart look alike block http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18750 FINAL PROBING OF THE CHINESE LOOK A LIKE DART BLOCK http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0 I think you will find the Chinese 502 block will be junk and simple sonic velocity test with a sonic tester can verify on how good of material was used. The Chinese block I tested was in the 1300"s and the Dart and the OEM blocks 1800 to 1900 in that area. Also brinell test on the Dart Little-M was 200 and the SHP was 190 and the Chinese block was 113 I am sure that Dart, World and I see Blue Print engines now offers an all American made block. |
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS
(Post 4044872)
I am sure PBM/World blocks are better pieces then when Mitchell was selling them, Customer support sucked back then I had to stop selling them as there were costing me to much money to repair them!!
Over the years I have seen some issues with Dart blocks and the Problems were taking care of the next day. PBM stopped selling Dart blocks because they were shut off from Dart because they introduced the Chinese Dart Look alike block which turned out to be junk. PBM misled a lot of people advertising high nickel and high density blocks which was far from the truth, And it took a long time for them to spill the beans where they came from. I did a lot of research on that block and found them to be junk. Here are the links Chinese look a like Little-M block http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0 Material make up of the Chinese Dart look alike block http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18750 FINAL PROBING OF THE CHINESE LOOK A LIKE DART BLOCK http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0 I think you will find the Chinese 502 block will be junk and simple sonic velocity test with a sonic tester can verify on how good of material was used. The Chinese block I tested was in the 1300"s and the Dart and the OEM blocks 1800 to 1900 in that area. Also brinell test on the Dart Little-M was 200 and the SHP was 190 and the Chinese block was 113 I am sure that Dart, World and I see Blue Print engines now offers an all American made block. It's a wonder you could even torque a head bolt or the mains on the Chinese blocks... |
Carl,
Is it true that Pro Comp, is offering the 502 block we are speaking of, in different points of machining points? Have you used any of the PBM or the World blocks that are now cast and machined in the USA. I know all the World blocks have met ISO 9000 certification, do you think they would change any of the machining for the PBM name block, and what would the casting material be in the PBM block verses the World? |
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