Thanks for the replies, guys. It might come down to just running it and keeping an eye on the oil and the idle speed. Mike, I was idling it around 800 RPM most of the time. Might bump it up to 900 or so just to be safe, at least when not shifting. When I ran it for a little while last night, I looked up inside the collector and it was wet clear up to where the primaries connect to the collector. Now it did shut down on its own because I let the gas run out inadvertently, so it's possible that it took a big gulp while it sputtered to a stop. I had to quit for the night after I found a cross-threaded plug on the #7 cylinder (another long, sordid story). Still haven't been able to run it again until I deal with that.

I talked at length to Jan at Lightning, and he thinks I am pulling water in at the joint. These headers were originally designed for silent choice, but the slip in collectors are used for larger cams. He said to use silicon to seal that joint and see if that helps. He did not seem to think limiting water flow to the headers is an option, but many on here would disagree I am sure. SB, what modifications would you recommend on those collectors? I was seriously thinking about welding a bung on them to dump excess water and then close up a couple of those holes up on top. I agree that it does not seem like an optimal design to me, and I can't see where that much water out the exhaust is needed to cool the hoses and the tips.

Verified that timing is around 34*, with a 24* module and 10* initial timing. Guy at Lightning mentioned that some guys like to run more initial timing or even with timing locked all in to help with reversion. I have access to an HP500 20* module, which would allow me to bump up my initial timing. Would this help or hurt?

I think you are worrying to much ..Put the engine in..........don't overthink it

I think it is the nature of the beast on these headers, I have the same and can tell they get water back in, as you know I did the water bypass on mine trying to get the 02's to live, F on that...but they dump water so close to the collector don't think you can get around it...I'm running a 500HP carb cam and know they are iffy on reverting...I talked to lightning as well and they warned me against my water dump idea, but we ran and checked one side with valve open bleeding off water and the other closed in stock position and did not show much temp change from one side to another, but that was about 20 mins running...still want to test some more...Rob

IMO, the whole silent choice thing is nothing but a royal pain in the azz. We have more than enough options today for sound control. Air operated mufflers, full time clamp on mufflers, muffler inserts, turndowns, etc. I'd throw those silent choice diverters in the dumpster, and have someone make full jacketed pipes thru the transom and throw some mufflers on it.

I have Stainless Marine TRS dry to the tip manifolds. (3' of tail pipe) When I pull my O2 bung plug they will revert water back to the manifolds. The those need to be sealed good. Also I have never seen dry stock lightning headers at an idle. I have to agree with ezstriper.

Rob, you have the silent choice on yours as well, right? Is there any kind of inner pipe that slides into the main body of the header?

If I were going to modify mine I would consider adding a dump outlet on the separate collector and close up several of the water ports on the top. Might just do that before the season is over. Any good welding shop could handle it, and I could easily cap off the dumps if I decided not to use them.

I just removed the drains off the rubber log that feeds the tubes, installed a simple shutoff valve there(they were different sizes on mine) and I just drilled and tapped my Y pipe 3/8 pipe, not hard, ran a line from the valve to a fitting there, you can adjust how much water you bleed off...talked to Bob M. about this and he liked the idea of getting as much water as possible away from the engine...

I don't like the slip joint and I don't like those holes in the inner pipe letting the water rain down into the exhaust stream.

I would have an inner pipe made/welded in that is as long as you can fit with a slash cut - top longer than bottom. A 3 1/2" iner with 4" outer (outer can be rubber or metal).

The bravo pumps mover so much water that your exhaust won't burn thru if using rubber and the 1/4" or so gap from outer to inner won't have a smooth ramp for water to get sucked back as easily as most companies risers do since they roll/flare the inner pipe OD to outer pipe ID with water outlet holes of course. That's too smooth of a transition and thus does nothing to deter water from going backwards.

Alot of people in the small block and small boat world - smaller pockets in this boating category - do....even with stock or cheap GLM exhaust - ie: weld inner extensions on to the outlet of the inner part of risers. Bam ! No reversion, or , a ton less. Edit in: typically 3" inners and 4" outers as small blocks don't need more than 3", and the added bonus more of a step between the inner and outer where they terminate.

Get the water introduction further away and make it harder to come back up backwards. This is what has to be done before modifying water supply, overboard dumps, etc,etc as these should be final straw if needed.

Your cam is mild !!!! Just get all water away from the area just after the inner collector starts.

The whole problem might be that it is not getting to true temp. Too cold for a true test under these conditions.

You have a point, I can see condensation in the breather tubes, and it's barely reading 120* on the gauge. However, I was able to look up into the pipes and see that they were wet all the way up to the primaries, so there is definitely some water backing its way up the exhaust.

Does it start to idle bad? I would think idling at 800 rpm if it was getting water to the cylinder it would start to idle like crap.

Not really, but I do notice a little hesitation when I blip the throttle. Almost like it needs to blow the water out - that may just be the backpressure going through the tips that it has to overcome momentarily and not true reversion.

My situation was very similar but one I got it installed in the boat with closed cooling and a 160 thermostat all is well..... When running on the stand and only getting water temp up to 120 was the intake cool or cold to the touch? Was it sweating bad? Risers too? Mine was and I ended up with a milkshake! Have you run the engine up to temp yet and what was the result?

Does my water mix far enough back for me to run a 3/4 race cam? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm9qOq_U5FU

Actually mine might be an 11/16 race cam, MT. ;)

I don't remember seeing it sweat - it is polished instead of painted, don't know if that makes a difference. I did see a lot of condensation in the breather tubes. Only got to 120* or so on the stand. It saw at least 160* on the dyno, so it has had a few heat cycles.

:popcorn:

160 deg ke bypass thermostat might be the ticket

Nice pink broom, you wear a dress when you sweep that garage? :D

isn't this just a damn boat motor ..With a moderate cam ................what the ...I have run far bigger cams ..some with lightening headers,, and never had this many issues ..........Or ,should I say debates......Not to be a smartass ,but i'm beginning to think you're afraid to put the motor in the boat and run it ...Could have written a couple of books ..........

:D:lolhit::funnypost::Score-101010:

Now THAT's funny!

you beat me to the punch!

dan,that is your broom in your shop!

Dang Motor, wasn't my intent to ruffle any feathers. :helmet: ;) Just trying to not make any major mistakes like I did with my previous motor. Don't want to be doing this a THIRD time - I don't think OSO or my own sanity could handle another one of these builds. And yes, I am scared to run it in the boat if I'm going to revert water and ruin a set of $2000 heads. I'm sorry if I'm driving some of you guys crazy, but if someone else learns from some of the problems I have had to deal with on this build, then that's what OSO's all about. That being said, I've learned a lot doing this build - I put this thing together from start to finish, and I don't do this for a living. Hopefully some of the rest of us will benefit too. I have to say that I really appreciate the time a lot of you have spent answering questions and offering ideas, and I try to do the same for others who are asking questions on here when I know the answer.

I do agree with you that with this cam I should just be able to bolt the headers on and go. Don't know why that's not the case, but I'm going to figure it out. Thanks.

:noevil:

No I wear an easter bunny outfit !

I think the pink broom is brilliant !

Who would think of breaking in and stealing anything from a man's garage that has a pink broom.

A thief may not be scared off by a baseball bat or knife....but a pink broom ? Get the f*k out..now !!!!!

LOL.

Someone mentioned condensation earlier, and I came across this article that mentions it. Not sure of the validity of all that is said, but it's interesting that it mentions running cold lake water through the exhaust versus water that is first warmed by the engine.

http://www.perfprotech.com/blog/unca...d-and-checking

That being said, I don't think I want to put my engine through 15 minutes of idling like the testing procedure recommends. It does mention getting the operating temp to 160*, so maybe a hotter T-stat would help borderline cases of reversion / condensation. Anyway, interesting reading on a rainy Wed night.

I'm not ruffled ,and don't mean to get you going ............I just think you are overthinking the alleged reversion.If you started pulling exhaust off various boat motors,i think you may find a small bit of water laying where you would rather it not be ....

:bunnydance: I think MT has been fooling us all along - that really IS his pink broom, and that's MT in the avitar posting on OSO!

I think the slip joint sucks. Literally.

These are not the standard Lightning headers most are used to.

You know, you are probably dead on with what you are saying about a lot of motors having some water getting back in. Friend of mine has nearly the same setup on his boat - Lightnings with the separated collectors and HP500 cam - yes, more aggressive than mine, and he has been running his for years. He was curious if he is getting any water in his as well, and was even talking about snaking a tube in there to see if there is any water sitting in there. (you are probably thinking OMG - Budman's rubbing off on him! Just what we need, another epic thread about Lightnings with tubes being shoved down them. ;) )

I agree - definitely not optimal. They were my only real solution without having custom tails made or filling in and re-cutting my exhaust holes in my transom. Boat was originally small block.

I don't like the way they introduce the water either. I think a couple of those holes on top need to be blocked or redirected, and maybe dumps added to take some of the excess overboard.

I typed 2 paragraphs, asked myself YYYYY, deleted them and decided to commit suicide instead.

Why you worried about the idle? With such a mild hyd roller, I wouldnt sweat it. I have quite a bit more cam than you, and sometimes on the lake I have to idle for 30 minutes to get back into the harbor/dock.

I know not to check oso tech section from my phone, if I am standing on the edge of a cliff or roof top. Chances are Budman will have a new thread full of concerns, that are very likely to make a guy wanna strap banana peels to his shoes and hope for a gust of wind.

:bestwishes: Best wishes on your trip to the afterlife, Brian. Don't take any wrong turns! :evilb:

OK guys, I guess I'll just chuck this thing in there this weekend and not worry about it, even though the headers were WET all the way back to the primaries when I ran it on the stand a couple days ago. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? :whistle: A few ounces of cold water on those hot exhaust valves after a hard run will be good for them, right? Quench harden them! :party-smiley-004:

Pull 1 header off. Position it as same as on boat. Hook up water and see if it the header design alone that allows water to run backwards , taking the motor out of the equation.
From your pics I can see how water coming out of the holes can splash hard enough to get some to go the wrong direction. The water needs a way to be redirected rearward. Just a 2" length of pipe tack welded to the inner pipe would be enough to get the water moving the right direction. But then this assuming I'm seeing the pics right. Kinda hard to see from my end. The holes appear to be just straight into the pipe, not pointing rearward