The Blower Shop Intercoolers WTF!!!
09-25-2014, 01:55 PM
#41
Registered
Well I spoke with Joe at The Blower Shop yesterday and he wasn't much help to be perfectly honest. As in his post he does not recomend buying used coolers because they only have a 2 season life span to begin with. Or maybe 3 seasons if your lucky and flush them and fill them up with antifreeze after each use. What a PITA that would be!!! Also it sounded like he was really going to help out with manufactures warranty but the best he can do is give me $100 off new cores which are $1200 each and then maybe get 2 or 3 seasons out of them. I know this is an expensive sport but damn. The worst part is he is out of stock on them for 6 weeks. There goes the rest of the boating season. Maybe I'm wrong but I sure don't feel like he was any help to my situation with 4 leaking Blower Shop cores. I will be calling Hardin Marine about their Cupornickel cores today.
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articfriends (06-27-2020)
09-25-2014, 05:27 PM
#43
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iTrader: (1)
Hey TBS -
Most of us will be psyched your here. No doubt.
Most of us will be psyched your here. No doubt.
09-25-2014, 10:37 PM
#45
Registered
iTrader: (3)
It may seem that I am anti intercooler on a roots deal, but I'm not. Although I think for many years, people have had a false sense of security because they installed them, without actually recording air intake temps. Guys tend to think their air charge is like juneau Alaska river water frigid, but that's not the case when your at loto and pumping 90 degree lake water thru the core. Also, a dyno pull isn't always the same as running at wot for miles. Everything heats up at that point.
I'll have some air temp data with a blower shop intercooler under a 10-71 Littlefield next week making 10psi on the dyno to compare to the non intercooled version of a 10-71 making 8psi. Should be interesting , although we will probably be putting 60 degree tap water thru the core , which should help a tad more than 80-90 deg water.
Maybe Joe from the blower shop can provide us with some data on this stuff too. Glad to see him here. The blower shop makes some awesome stuff that's for sure. Love their billet blowers!
09-25-2014, 11:50 PM
#46
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iTrader: (1)
$400 dollars off (TBS wasn`t obligated at all to do anything) and you`re complaining?? What did you want free ones shipped next day? 
Personally I see 135* and no more than 150* on my intake temp gauge,(3.4% underdriven, 6psi) unless someone has some proof that I could drop that significantly I just don`t see the expense and trouble of intercoolers being worth it on my set up.
Personally I see 135* and no more than 150* on my intake temp gauge,(3.4% underdriven, 6psi) unless someone has some proof that I could drop that significantly I just don`t see the expense and trouble of intercoolers being worth it on my set up.
09-26-2014, 08:54 AM
#47
Registered
iTrader: (3)
$400 dollars off (TBS wasn`t obligated at all to do anything) and you`re complaining?? What did you want free ones shipped next day?
Personally I see 135* and no more than 150* on my intake temp gauge,(3.4% underdriven, 6psi) unless someone has some proof that I could drop that significantly I just don`t see the expense and trouble of intercoolers being worth it on my set up.
Personally I see 135* and no more than 150* on my intake temp gauge,(3.4% underdriven, 6psi) unless someone has some proof that I could drop that significantly I just don`t see the expense and trouble of intercoolers being worth it on my set up.
09-27-2014, 11:14 AM
#48
Registered
I have three pretty ignorant questions, but I have thick skin, so here goes:
1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever?
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI???
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING?
BTW Joe @ TBS, I have the 14-71 package you sent out to Cleveland earlier this year, a pair, I hope they run as good as they look. Welcome to OSO!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530033[/ATTACH]
1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever?
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI???
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING?
BTW Joe @ TBS, I have the 14-71 package you sent out to Cleveland earlier this year, a pair, I hope they run as good as they look. Welcome to OSO!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]530033[/ATTACH]
Last edited by frickstyle; 09-27-2014 at 11:18 AM.
09-27-2014, 12:06 PM
#49
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iTrader: (3)
1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever? You can cap the ends off, and use a pressure tester rigged up. Such as, a stant cooling system pressure tester, like they would use to test a cars cooling system for leaks. Hand pump to 15 or 20 psi, and watch to see if it leaks down.
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI??? Yes, city water pressure is higher. You can regulate it down however. I believe they want no more than about 30psi of pressure in the cores.
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING? Yes, thats the idea, or principle behind them. However, in my personal opinion, their net worth, can only be stated, with DATA. Way to many guys buy them, thinking that they are gonna save their engines from detonation, make more power, turn up the boost, run less octane, run more timing, and so on. Without DATA, you are playing with fire, ASSUMING any of that. It boils down to the temperature in the manifold. Without knowing the actual temperature, you're simply guessing at whats "safe". Their are variables in every situation.
For example. Lets say you are riding the white horse, on the dyno. You are all suited up in your shining armor, ready to make some big power pulls. its a cool spring day, the dyno cell is getting some great 55* ambient air sucked in. You turn on the tap water coming from the well 150 feet below ground in the northern states. You may have 45 degree water flowing thru that core. Boy that sucker is cold when you touch the housing. You do a quick 10 second pull, intake temps look great, crank up that boost. More power is achieved!
However, now, you load up the wife and kids, and head to LOTO for the shootout in August. Now, you fire up and get on plane. You see water flowing from the intercooler dump. You smile, drop the hammer and hold that sucker down, trading in your white horse, for a magical unicorn, when all of a sudden, smoke is billowing from your hatch. OMG, What can it be????? I had these things dynoed and they were way safe!!!! Is that a piston that looks like a tenderized pork loin???
Well, what happened is this. Instead of pumping 45 degree well water thru the intercooler, you were pumping 89 degree bath water thru it. Instead of that cool 55 degree ambient air, you were ingesting 120* degree hot air from under your boat hatch. Next thing that happens, the engine builder takes an internet beating, the blower shop gets blasted on the forums, your wife kicks you in the ball bag and withholds sex for the next 6 months, and your left with a oil coated bilge to degrease from the oil that blew out of the breathers.
My advice, build a setup that doesnt need the intercoolers to survive. Install them, take advantage of the more consistant intake temps they will offer, and go boating. This way if you suck up a used condom in the water line feeding them, you wont melt things.
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI??? Yes, city water pressure is higher. You can regulate it down however. I believe they want no more than about 30psi of pressure in the cores.
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING? Yes, thats the idea, or principle behind them. However, in my personal opinion, their net worth, can only be stated, with DATA. Way to many guys buy them, thinking that they are gonna save their engines from detonation, make more power, turn up the boost, run less octane, run more timing, and so on. Without DATA, you are playing with fire, ASSUMING any of that. It boils down to the temperature in the manifold. Without knowing the actual temperature, you're simply guessing at whats "safe". Their are variables in every situation.
For example. Lets say you are riding the white horse, on the dyno. You are all suited up in your shining armor, ready to make some big power pulls. its a cool spring day, the dyno cell is getting some great 55* ambient air sucked in. You turn on the tap water coming from the well 150 feet below ground in the northern states. You may have 45 degree water flowing thru that core. Boy that sucker is cold when you touch the housing. You do a quick 10 second pull, intake temps look great, crank up that boost. More power is achieved!
However, now, you load up the wife and kids, and head to LOTO for the shootout in August. Now, you fire up and get on plane. You see water flowing from the intercooler dump. You smile, drop the hammer and hold that sucker down, trading in your white horse, for a magical unicorn, when all of a sudden, smoke is billowing from your hatch. OMG, What can it be????? I had these things dynoed and they were way safe!!!! Is that a piston that looks like a tenderized pork loin???
Well, what happened is this. Instead of pumping 45 degree well water thru the intercooler, you were pumping 89 degree bath water thru it. Instead of that cool 55 degree ambient air, you were ingesting 120* degree hot air from under your boat hatch. Next thing that happens, the engine builder takes an internet beating, the blower shop gets blasted on the forums, your wife kicks you in the ball bag and withholds sex for the next 6 months, and your left with a oil coated bilge to degrease from the oil that blew out of the breathers.
My advice, build a setup that doesnt need the intercoolers to survive. Install them, take advantage of the more consistant intake temps they will offer, and go boating. This way if you suck up a used condom in the water line feeding them, you wont melt things.
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articfriends (06-27-2020)
09-27-2014, 12:24 PM
#50
Fast Singles Club
Gold Member
iTrader: (8)
1. What is the procedure to check for leaks in the cooler while in the boat? If you had a leak, wouldn't the water travel directly into the cylinder / head / valve, wherever? You can cap the ends off, and use a pressure tester rigged up. Such as, a stant cooling system pressure tester, like they would use to test a cars cooling system for leaks. Hand pump to 15 or 20 psi, and watch to see if it leaks down.
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI??? Yes, city water pressure is higher. You can regulate it down however. I believe they want no more than about 30psi of pressure in the cores.
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING? Yes, thats the idea, or principle behind them. However, in my personal opinion, their net worth, can only be stated, with DATA. Way to many guys buy them, thinking that they are gonna save their engines from detonation, make more power, turn up the boost, run less octane, run more timing, and so on. Without DATA, you are playing with fire, ASSUMING any of that. It boils down to the temperature in the manifold. Without knowing the actual temperature, you're simply guessing at whats "safe". Their are variables in every situation.
For example. Lets say you are riding the white horse, on the dyno. You are all suited up in your shining armor, ready to make some big power pulls. its a cool spring day, the dyno cell is getting some great 55* ambient air sucked in. You turn on the tap water coming from the well 150 feet below ground in the northern states. You may have 45 degree water flowing thru that core. Boy that sucker is cold when you touch the housing. You do a quick 10 second pull, intake temps look great, crank up that boost. More power is achieved!
However, now, you load up the wife and kids, and head to LOTO for the shootout in August. Now, you fire up and get on plane. You see water flowing from the intercooler dump. You smile, drop the hammer and hold that sucker down, trading in your white horse, for a magical unicorn, when all of a sudden, smoke is billowing from your hatch. OMG, What can it be????? I had these things dynoed and they were way safe!!!! Is that a piston that looks like a tenderized pork loin???
Well, what happened is this. Instead of pumping 45 degree well water thru the intercooler, you were pumping 89 degree bath water thru it. Instead of that cool 55 degree ambient air, you were ingesting 120* degree hot air from under your boat hatch. Next thing that happens, the engine builder takes an internet beating, the blower shop gets blasted on the forums, your wife kicks you in the ball bag and withholds sex for the next 6 months, and your left with a oil coated bilge to degrease from the oil that blew out of the breathers.
My advice, build a setup that doesnt need the intercoolers to survive. Install them, take advantage of the more consistant intake temps they will offer, and go boating. This way if you suck up a used condom in the water line feeding them, you wont melt things.
2. What PSI (water pressure) were you subjecting the coolers to when you tested? Typically run about 20PSI while in operation, correct? Isn't city water pressure (if you were checking on a hose), typically around 60-70 PSI when in a closed loop / deadhead / however it builds pressure.... Is it possible you "popped" them while checking? Just curious as I thought about this last night. What PSI are coolers rated for? 100 PSI??? Yes, city water pressure is higher. You can regulate it down however. I believe they want no more than about 30psi of pressure in the cores.
3. I was under the impression that you ran coolers to make the charge "safer", or reduce required octane levels to run at a given boost pressure, or hold more consistent charge, whatever. I think it can be stated a few different ways, basically avoid detonation. Is that correct? I guess what I'm saying is WHY THE F DO I HAVE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING? Yes, thats the idea, or principle behind them. However, in my personal opinion, their net worth, can only be stated, with DATA. Way to many guys buy them, thinking that they are gonna save their engines from detonation, make more power, turn up the boost, run less octane, run more timing, and so on. Without DATA, you are playing with fire, ASSUMING any of that. It boils down to the temperature in the manifold. Without knowing the actual temperature, you're simply guessing at whats "safe". Their are variables in every situation.
For example. Lets say you are riding the white horse, on the dyno. You are all suited up in your shining armor, ready to make some big power pulls. its a cool spring day, the dyno cell is getting some great 55* ambient air sucked in. You turn on the tap water coming from the well 150 feet below ground in the northern states. You may have 45 degree water flowing thru that core. Boy that sucker is cold when you touch the housing. You do a quick 10 second pull, intake temps look great, crank up that boost. More power is achieved!
However, now, you load up the wife and kids, and head to LOTO for the shootout in August. Now, you fire up and get on plane. You see water flowing from the intercooler dump. You smile, drop the hammer and hold that sucker down, trading in your white horse, for a magical unicorn, when all of a sudden, smoke is billowing from your hatch. OMG, What can it be????? I had these things dynoed and they were way safe!!!! Is that a piston that looks like a tenderized pork loin???
Well, what happened is this. Instead of pumping 45 degree well water thru the intercooler, you were pumping 89 degree bath water thru it. Instead of that cool 55 degree ambient air, you were ingesting 120* degree hot air from under your boat hatch. Next thing that happens, the engine builder takes an internet beating, the blower shop gets blasted on the forums, your wife kicks you in the ball bag and withholds sex for the next 6 months, and your left with a oil coated bilge to degrease from the oil that blew out of the breathers.
My advice, build a setup that doesnt need the intercoolers to survive. Install them, take advantage of the more consistant intake temps they will offer, and go boating. This way if you suck up a used condom in the water line feeding them, you wont melt things.
