Fuel pump
 

Hi guys I am building a 598 ci motor trying to
get about 800 up. My question is on the fuel pump
I am wondering if the stock sea pump driven pump with
the K E pump on it would supply enough fuel. Has anybody
used this set.

I am guessing a 598ci will be utilizing a block that has a fuel pump mounting boss.

I would use this mechanical block mounted pump.

http://teaguecustommarine.com/em0011...uel-pumps.html

I have no idea on that pump deal..But I hate them....what setup are you running ? I would look at a aeromotive A1000 and a return regulator, make sure the tank pickup in a min of 3/8 with no anti siphon valve, 1/2 would be better, you can get a diesel boat tank sending unit that has a return fitting in it already or some dump in filler hose...I would not run the water pump driven pump but thats my .02 Rob

Im running that style pump i listed at 800hp forced induction feeding twin 850 carbs. Mercury used the same style pump on the 800/900sc. No regulator needed.

MILD THUNDER, The block does have the provision for a block mounted fuel pump, the problem is there is not enough room between the sea pump and the block to mount one. Unless I am missing something that's the way it looks to me. I would rather not run a elec. pump if I don't have to.

MT, what fuel pump pushrod are you running with that? I'm assuming you are running a billet steel camshaft, correct? Have read that you have to run a bronze tipped rod, or some are running a composite rod.

This is what you need to run.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4607

Randy,
While I am sure some would disagree, I would not rely on a mechanical pump alone. I like to run a mechanical along with a good Aeromotive return style pump and regulator. The mechanical pump will get your engine started and allow you to idle through the no wake zones, If you use a good mechanical pump it will even get you through moderate speeds. Then switch on the electric when you are running hard. That's the way I do it.
As Rob said make sure your tank pick up is large enough to handle the flow you will need. I would say at least 1/2".... no smaller. Then all -10 lines to the regulator and at least -6 from the regulator to the carb.

i ran the same pump as mild uses on my blown 540s making 950 along with a electric pump set to come on at 5 lbs.i had a lite on the dash that would lite up if the pump was running.i would test the pump by turning the key on without starting the engine so i knew it was working.even at wot and 6300 rpm the electric pump never came on because the mechanical pump never fell below 5 lbs.

Those six valve mechanical pumps will support 1000HP on gas, in a blown application. Mercury Marine didnt just slap them on the 800sc/900sc/1000sc and hope for the best. They did some testing

Unfortunately, they are becoming more and more rare these days. Barry Grant used to make one, holley, and some others. They are not comparable to the normal junk mechanical pumps holley sells these days, and move a whole lot more fuel than a stock sea pump style mechanical pump.

Mild Thunder and Mike Tkach. You guys give great experienced tech, are great assets to this site. Have boats that have whomp a$$ mills in them! Use the parts you recommend, but seems when you do some people squirm around and have bullcrap reasons or some half azz rigged solution instead of just listening. SMH
Please keep up the good work and keyboard education.

Thank you for the kind words..

I went round and round on what fuel pump to run when I was redoing my engines a few years ago. You go on oso, and its hard to figure out what works. Because you'll have some guy who claims his mechanical pump wouldnt keep up with his 600HP engine, etc. So then you start thinking "Maybe I do need a big electric". But what he didnt tell you, was he was running a tiny pickup in the tank, too small diameter of fuel lines, so on and so forth.

For a simple single carb'ed 750-800HP setup, I see no good reason to go out and spend 400 dollars on a pump, another 200 for a return regulator, have to plumb in the return style regulator, wire in a fuel pump relay, and so on. Not when you could drop under 200 bucks on a pump and go boating. If you only had the merc sea pump and no block mounted provision, or EFI, or blow thru, then I'd understand. Don't get me wrong, those aeromotive pumps and return regulator is a fantastic setup, and will support a lot of power!

As for my setup, I am running -10 lines from my fuel tank to a wix 33405 water separator. Then I have a -10 line from the filter to the pump. On the outlet side of the pump, I have a single #8 line up to the fuel log that splits off to the 4 bowls. You do not want to skimp on the inlet side of the pumps. They push alot better than they pull.

I've seen some big power marine setups, use those six valve pumps, but the higher pressure ones, with a return style regulator. That too will support some good power carbed, and is probably the way to go if you're really RPM'ng the engine. I think once you start getting over 6000K rpm, the heavy fuel pump pushrod and light low pressure spring in the pump starts losing some control. Howards now makes a lightweight pushrod that supposed to help with that. Around 40 bucks for that pushrod. Hope this helps.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet

This is the pump I run. This isn't a like a Holley p.o.s. pump. Maybe I don't need an electric Aeromotive, but it doesn't hurt to have it there. Everyone is entitled to rig their engines however they want, but my set up is hardly a half assed rigged solution.

http://www.claysmithcams.com/big-block-chevrolet/

As I said, people here will disagree with me.

thats the style pump I been talking about. You saying that pump doesnt keep up?

'


No, I am not saying that. I just like to have more fuel delivery than is necessary. It has been my experience that in fuel delivery having more available is always the better choice.

The Clay Smith pump is the same as the Holley pump they are talking about. I've had the two apart and the parts interchange. It's a bad mofo. I have no idea why someone would want to restrict the flow of there mechanical pump with a POS Aeromotive pump. For anyone who thinks they need a second pump for a backup to get you home/ don't go lean (cause the mechanical pump pumps alot more fuel than the electric) do a search and try to find one posting of a bad Clay Smith pump ever. Then call Clay Smith and ask for a rebuild kit see how ignorant they get with you when they tell you there pumps never go bad.

How about these mechanical pumps. 3 different models from 2400HP to 6000HP on gas.

http://www.weldonracing.com/products...uel+Pumps.html

LOL.

i have 2 brand new clay smith pumps,i was going to use them on my fountain but decided to go with aeromotive a1000.the smith pumps are good to around 1000 hp but im way over that.

that,s not fair sb,can,t bolt it in the stock location.

I've seen them used on just under 1300 N/a applications. If it was me and I ran out of pump with the block mounted I would go with a belt driven pump. Electric pumps are not very consistent w
When you play around with motors that are greatly affectless by as little as .25lb fuel pressure you learn Aeromotive is about the worst.

:bong:

all nice looking engines,any of them over 1000 hp?

Yes they are... Lets guess... I hope MT has the answers.. My guess : 1,2 & 5 are over .. 3 is about 750 ish 4 around 800 cause of pulley size and 6 is between 8 & 900:rolleyes:

I cannot imagine the load on the camshaft or the water pump that these pumps would have to have to supply those #'s...just a thought

Cannot see it being anywhere nearly as high as the load the lifter/pushrod/rocker/valvespring/valve puts on the cam. Those pump springs are extremely light compared to a valve spring that has 500 ft lbs over the nose.

The last one (mine)468ci made 804 at 6200 at 7psi. The blue engine 572ci, made 900ish at 5psi . Not sure on the others.

Good read.

A couple questions as I have yet to buy my pump:

Are you guys drilling and tapping the top of the pump for 1/8" pipe thread to vent it for uscg compliance?

Is the holley billet pump junk?

I'm assuming a regulator is needed for most of these mechanical pumps. Is that correct?

I was leaning toward a holley billet or a CV. The holley puts out 7.5psi so I thought that would be nice without the need for a regulator. I was going to buy the billet job and drill and tap the top.

Thanks,
Rob

Hey Rob. My pumps which are the ones discussed in this thread, were made by holley, and had the vent tubes in them already. The ones from Teague, or Baker, also have the vents installed already. However, drilling the body and installing the vent yourself, wouldnt be a big issue.

As far as the Billet pumps from Holley, and the CV products pumps, I have never used them, therefore I cannot comment on them. I do not want to comment on a product I have no knowledge of or experience with.


N/A carbureted, is about the least demanding on a fuel pump setup you can get. Blown EFI, is on the other end of that spectrum.

Plus, 2 carbs (4 float bowls and 4 needle and seats) let's a pump able to supply more over time.

Thanks guys!
The Teague looks like a quality piece. Much cheaper than the CV and billet holley.

It says 7.5-9 psi.
Regulator or not?
I have a single 4150.

Sit tight, I broke out my holley master catalog....let me look at a few things. BRB.

Rob, the new holley pumps are bad azz. But I can buy a pump that's just as good for $300 less. If you run the higher pressure pump and want an easy install don't use a regulator just get an Enderle by-pass valve and put it on the return line. Only cost around $45 and a better way to regulate the fuel really.

Thanks guys.

I don't have a return port on my tank so it's either an in line regulator or a pump that works at 7.5 psi or so.

Is 7.5-9 psi too much for the needle and seat on a 4150?

.......

Thanks MT.
Would you recommend an in line regulator with the Teague pump in the link then?

The needle/seat/float will usually tolerate 8psi, or even 9psi sometimes. But, if you boat in rough waters, you may find the needle coming off the seat very easily when hitting waves with the fuel pressure that high.

put them on a west coast dyno and they sure will be.:party-smiley-004:this was for sb.

I'm also a fan of electric pumps w/ regulators returning to the tank.

Interesting , tell me more, something you`ve used and have experience with?

no,the needle and seat will hold up to 11psi and some up to 12lpsi.
you can cut a fuel fill hose and add a return there.thats how mine was for many years till I got my new tank.

Not much to tell just make a complete loop with the your fuel line and put the valve on the return. It really cleans up the look and your not relying on a small oriface to supply the motor with fuel. I've used them in the past my current setup I have a blp regulator on the end of the carb fuel rail.

Keep in mind, additional pressure doesnt mean you will get more fuel to the engine. There are many different styles of Needle/seat assemblies, float designs, and so forth. Each setup can be different as far as the pressure they will tolerate.

If everything is properly setup, 7-8psi of fuel pressure will without a doubt, support well over 1000HP. With a single carb setup, say a blow thru, I dont care how much pressure you throw at it, once you get to 1150hp or so, you run out of needle and seat area. Hence the dual needle and seat bowls become more needed.

For a guy building a 600HP, 700HP, or 800HP engine, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. :ernaehrung004: