Bearing clearances, oil weight, and more...
11-16-2014 | 08:25 AM
#31
Registered
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 8
From: bel air, md
I found it interesting that they run a hair looser on clearances than the norm with 0w50 oil I'm guessing Mobil 1 by his comments.
11-16-2014 | 09:25 AM
#32
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 1,169
From: taxachusetts
I have seen these roller cam bearings used in dirt track engines because of the high valve spring pressures they run . A concept that would render this conversation moot if they were available to replace the other bearings in high HP apps. . http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...O7waAm2G8P8HAQ
11-16-2014 | 09:28 AM
#33
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 1,169
From: taxachusetts
11-16-2014 | 09:50 AM
#35
Gold Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,692
Likes: 217
From: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
I get so pissed at the wife when she dont let Mountaineer run for a few before driving, HUGE pet peeve
11-16-2014 | 11:55 AM
#36
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 688
Likes: 0
From: wisconsin
OMG, I can remember back when I was a kid, mom would start our brand new 1977 Cadi, at 10 below zero, had a 501 in it, and rev the **** out of it till it warmed up. The motor would make noises that, even as a kid, I knew were bad. Well I think back then they had 10W 30 oil in that motor, & its a good thing dad got her a new one every year... LOL
11-16-2014 | 12:12 PM
#37
Registered
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,439
Likes: 94
From: yorkville,il
Darin Morgan
Show Guest
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 819
Location: New Carlisle
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: help with switching to 0-30w oil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
seth wrote:
when switching from a 20-50w to a 0-30w oil do you need to tighten up the clearances. I have tried 0-30w oils in the past with limited sucess. if i run .001" per inch of dia. as my oil clearance do i need to tighten that up and how much as a rule.
amsoil racing oil 20-50w and switched to their 0-30w bearing life has been shortend drastically.
as of now i'm not sold on the 0-30w
If your having bearing problems with 05-30W synthetic oils your problems are not with the oil as much as they are the clearances and the machine work. Bearing misalignment or worse yet, to tight a clearance will hurt you every time. A good line honed main and properly trued and honed rod housing bores seem like a given but they seldom are. They need to be addressed, checked out and honed by a professional that knows what he is doing. You need to have .003 on the rods and .0035 on the mains or your playing with fire. We run .003+ on the rods at all times never less than that, ever. We run .0035 to .00375 on the mains and never less than that, ever. On engines with higher loads the clearances go up never down. Pin bores can have up to .00225 for clearance on some engines with high vacuum in the crank case and good oil control in the pan. The better the oil control and vacuum in the pan, the less oil the wrist pins get! We run 0055 (not a misprint) weight and it about the thickness of water. we run .0035 on the rods and upwards to.004 on the mains in the PS engines and the mains last all year long. Our 1300 horsepower Super Series engines have .003 rods and .0035 mains and run for 600 runs down the track! The record so far is 675 runs by Scotty Richardson.
(1) Get a good, professional machinist to line hone the mains and hone the rods properly.
(2) Make sure you have proper oiling. If your pressure fluctuates during the run,, you have problems.
(3) .003 rods and .0035 mains for clearance
(4) Use a good synthetic 05-30w oil like Mobil-1 or Castrol syntec
(5) In my personal opinion you need to stop using any oil from Amsoil. That is not a racing oil even if they say it is.
_________________
Darin Morgan
Show Guest
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 819
Location: New Carlisle
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: help with switching to 0-30w oil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
seth wrote:
when switching from a 20-50w to a 0-30w oil do you need to tighten up the clearances. I have tried 0-30w oils in the past with limited sucess. if i run .001" per inch of dia. as my oil clearance do i need to tighten that up and how much as a rule.
amsoil racing oil 20-50w and switched to their 0-30w bearing life has been shortend drastically.
as of now i'm not sold on the 0-30w
If your having bearing problems with 05-30W synthetic oils your problems are not with the oil as much as they are the clearances and the machine work. Bearing misalignment or worse yet, to tight a clearance will hurt you every time. A good line honed main and properly trued and honed rod housing bores seem like a given but they seldom are. They need to be addressed, checked out and honed by a professional that knows what he is doing. You need to have .003 on the rods and .0035 on the mains or your playing with fire. We run .003+ on the rods at all times never less than that, ever. We run .0035 to .00375 on the mains and never less than that, ever. On engines with higher loads the clearances go up never down. Pin bores can have up to .00225 for clearance on some engines with high vacuum in the crank case and good oil control in the pan. The better the oil control and vacuum in the pan, the less oil the wrist pins get! We run 0055 (not a misprint) weight and it about the thickness of water. we run .0035 on the rods and upwards to.004 on the mains in the PS engines and the mains last all year long. Our 1300 horsepower Super Series engines have .003 rods and .0035 mains and run for 600 runs down the track! The record so far is 675 runs by Scotty Richardson.
(1) Get a good, professional machinist to line hone the mains and hone the rods properly.
(2) Make sure you have proper oiling. If your pressure fluctuates during the run,, you have problems.
(3) .003 rods and .0035 mains for clearance
(4) Use a good synthetic 05-30w oil like Mobil-1 or Castrol syntec
(5) In my personal opinion you need to stop using any oil from Amsoil. That is not a racing oil even if they say it is.
_________________
Darin Morgan
11-16-2014 | 12:26 PM
#38
Registered
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 8
From: bel air, md
I'm with you Mike. He's not a builder but he is at the forefront of making horsepower. I know he's one of these kind of guys if you port a set of heads and he ports the same head and your head flows 2 Cfm less then your head is a POS. just thinking out loud maybe amsoil makes 5 less horsepower than something else. If that's the case I'm sure it's a POS to him. When your doing Pro Stock stuff every little last but of power counts. Most of us in the boating world have experienced the Amsoil results especially in the bravo drive. But to a guy like him if you put Mobil 1 in the drive and the boat is 1mph faster Amsoil is a POS.
11-19-2014 | 02:22 PM
#39
Registered
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: rapid city, sd
I would wonder if I should run tighter Clarence's in a motor that I'm building that will be all forged lower end, have a ProCharger at 8-10psi and never break a water temp of 100°F then say a similar motor that warms up to 200° and stays there. My motor running so cold may not expand as much.. For cooling the bearings, I like the idea of a little lost with a heavier oil "VR1,20-50" and a bigger oil pump.. As for load/vers oil viscosity, I'm not sure.. My cat engines in my OTR semi trucks have a high load, slow rpm deal and run 60-80 psi oil press with 15-40 but the otr Cummins isx engine maybe make 30 psi hot. My new Volvo runs 10-30 summer, 0-30 winter. Not quite a boat motor tho.
11-19-2014 | 02:26 PM
#40
Registered
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
From: Northern Indiana
I would wonder if I should run tighter Clarence's in a motor that I'm building that will be all forged lower end, have a ProCharger at 8-10psi and never break a water temp of 100°F then say a similar motor that warms up to 200° and stays there. My motor running so cold may not expand as much.. For cooling the bearings, I like the idea of a little lost with a heavier oil "VR1,20-50" and a bigger oil pump.. As for load/vers oil viscosity, I'm not sure.. My cat engines in my OTR semi trucks have a high load, slow rpm deal and run 60-80 psi oil press with 15-40 but the otr Cummins isx engine maybe make 30 psi hot. My new Volvo runs 10-30 summer, 0-30 winter. Not quite a boat motor tho.
