benefits of distributor-less ignition
12-18-2014 | 04:07 PM
#51
Registered
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: Brookfield Wi
fords ohc is more efficient any way you look at it. not that i was trying to start an argument in anyway with my post. but since you want to.
yes they do make more power with lots of boost. (more efficient)
the 4.6 block is the strongest production block in the history of the world. it went 6s in the quarter years ago. what chevy,toyota,dodge,honda, lambo, etc has thought about that without an aftermarket block. (sorry it may have been a filled block.) close enough to production for me.
economy. ever wonder why the gt500 /GT didnt have a fuel tax and the camaro / vette did? (More efficient)
spark plug issues.
a very small percentage of early 2v 4.6 blew them out. any hack worthy of owning a craftsmen tool set could helicoil and repair it.
3 valve. im sure youve heard horror stories on dealerships having to pull heads and replace engines do to sparkplugs being stuck in heads. i wont say ive change spark plugs on hundreds of 3v trucks. but i will say i have changed hundreds of spark plugs on 3v trucks. guess what ive never broke one off. i run an in induction cleaner through them first ( seafoam etc) and let them set until room temp. then i put a 3/8 impact on the plug very lightly. in may take 5 sec to 10 minutes for a plug to come out. but they come out. (not more efficient lol)
external packaging. as far as looks and fitting into a tight spot go. the ls wins hands down.
now the new 5.0 next generation mod motors. gm has nothing for them. piston cooling nozzles etc from the factory. 800hp at the wheels from a bolt on procharger is nothing to sneeze at.
and now we are even moving onto the next generation from them allready in 2016 with a flat plane crank and an 8,200 redline from the factory.
yes they do make more power with lots of boost. (more efficient)
the 4.6 block is the strongest production block in the history of the world. it went 6s in the quarter years ago. what chevy,toyota,dodge,honda, lambo, etc has thought about that without an aftermarket block. (sorry it may have been a filled block.) close enough to production for me.
economy. ever wonder why the gt500 /GT didnt have a fuel tax and the camaro / vette did? (More efficient)
spark plug issues.
a very small percentage of early 2v 4.6 blew them out. any hack worthy of owning a craftsmen tool set could helicoil and repair it.
3 valve. im sure youve heard horror stories on dealerships having to pull heads and replace engines do to sparkplugs being stuck in heads. i wont say ive change spark plugs on hundreds of 3v trucks. but i will say i have changed hundreds of spark plugs on 3v trucks. guess what ive never broke one off. i run an in induction cleaner through them first ( seafoam etc) and let them set until room temp. then i put a 3/8 impact on the plug very lightly. in may take 5 sec to 10 minutes for a plug to come out. but they come out. (not more efficient lol)
external packaging. as far as looks and fitting into a tight spot go. the ls wins hands down.
now the new 5.0 next generation mod motors. gm has nothing for them. piston cooling nozzles etc from the factory. 800hp at the wheels from a bolt on procharger is nothing to sneeze at.
and now we are even moving onto the next generation from them allready in 2016 with a flat plane crank and an 8,200 redline from the factory.
He's a couple quotes below and a link below from Hot Rod Magazine.
Though limited in displacement (3.623 bore, 3.653 stroke), the Coyote offers a specific output of 82.4 hp per liter (1.364 hp per inch), a number not equaled by Ford or Chevy on any of their normally aspirated V-8s. Credit for the impressive power numbers go to a combination of massive flow (nearly 300 cfm) from the 4-valve, aluminum heads. The overhead-cam design lends itself to impressive engine speed, though the peak power output of 412 hp comes at just 6500 rpm while the torque peak comes at 4250 rpm. This 2250-rpm spread between the horsepower and torque is a clear indication that the Coyote offers not just impressive peak power but a broad torque curve.
Quote 2
The Coyote crate motor offered a stock specific output unmatched over in Chevy land. Run on the dyno with the long-tube headers, the otherwise stock 5.0L produced 462 hp and 411 lb-ft of torque. Credit high-flow, 4-valve cylinder heads (that flow nearly 300 cfm) and variable cam timing for the impressive specific output.
Please don't bash me for this. Again, I'm and GM and Ford guy.
Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/events/coverag...er-adder-test/
Last edited by abmotorman; 12-18-2014 at 07:27 PM. Reason: link sucked
12-18-2014 | 04:18 PM
#52
Registered
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
From: Brookfield Wi
ok, 1st the GT 500 DID in fact have the gas guzzler tax hung right on the window sticker, the spark plug theasco on these are well documented, costing owners tons of $$$$ and also rest my case..lots of boost to get power, I'm not arguing the fact that the newer 5.0's dont run good..but look at the cost...the whole deal there is $$$$ and if you want to spend that kind of $$$ in your mod motor, thats fine...just let us know what it cost
Now that this thread has been FULLY hijacked ,can we get back to DIS!!!!!! ????!!!
http://fordracingpartsbydonwood.com/...gVPBoCv4Pw_wcB
12-18-2014 | 05:00 PM
#53
Registered
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
Reason the plugs came appart was the u shaped eletrode and part of the body was made of inconel and was crimped to steel (as it inconel wont weld to steel) also inconel coroads in the presents of cheep porclin. When I found out about it triggered my memory years back when I was designing stationary turbo test cells for Schwitzer. I was studying what materials to use inconel, wasp alloy and other materials used most comonly used in jet engines and remembered specks listing issues with porcelain.
I did help a friend at ford to design a cover to hold down solinoids for a camless valve train. Problem was how much eletrical power needed to run the solinoids.
Fords 300 CFM heads not sure about those figures as Ford measures flow at 68 inches and standard is 28in so if thats a ford fllow bench figure at 28 flow would be 190ish. I used to port a lot of cobra 4 valve heads was getting 320 CFM at .600 lift @ 28in thinking as cast was 260 CFM its been years since working on a set.
I did help a friend at ford to design a cover to hold down solinoids for a camless valve train. Problem was how much eletrical power needed to run the solinoids.
Fords 300 CFM heads not sure about those figures as Ford measures flow at 68 inches and standard is 28in so if thats a ford fllow bench figure at 28 flow would be 190ish. I used to port a lot of cobra 4 valve heads was getting 320 CFM at .600 lift @ 28in thinking as cast was 260 CFM its been years since working on a set.
12-18-2014 | 05:25 PM
#54
Registered
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 8
From: bel air, md
If the plug comes apart you need a puller. But it has been my experience if you follow Fords removal procedure the plugs don't come apart. I've probably done 20 or so with no breakage. B4 I found out about the Ford procedure I was putting penetrating oil in the hole and telling the customer to drive it for a couple of days then bring it back. This worked great and never had a breakage. The only time I've had to extract plugs is when someone else worked on it previously.
12-18-2014 | 07:18 PM
#55
Registered
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,480
Likes: 43
From: Tennessee
They were in the $800 area. That was several years ago though. Also, they weren't actually making it at the time, so maybe that caused the price to jump since it was a custom deal. It may have come down if they are actually producing them now. Let me know Bill. I still think about using them and wish I would have pursued it sometime.
12-19-2014 | 10:08 AM
#56
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,598
Likes: 1,168
From: taxachusetts
They were in the $800 area. That was several years ago though. Also, they weren't actually making it at the time, so maybe that caused the price to jump since it was a custom deal. It may have come down if they are actually producing them now. Let me know Bill. I still think about using them and wish I would have pursued it sometime.
12-19-2014 | 12:12 PM
#57
Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 433
Likes: 14
From: Angola NY
So what components are needed to fully assemble a crank trigger system starting with a new build using say a Holley EFI system. Is crank position sensor all that is needed for spark and fuel triggering? I am in the process of doing homework on a blow through EFI system now. I would assume any blank distributor can be in place to drive the oil pump if its not needed for anything else.
12-19-2014 | 12:31 PM
#58
Registered
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 128
From: Hemlock, MI
So what components are needed to fully assemble a crank trigger system starting with a new build using say a Holley EFI system. Is crank position sensor all that is needed for spark and fuel triggering? I am in the process of doing homework on a blow through EFI system now. I would assume any blank distributor can be in place to drive the oil pump if its not needed for anything else.
12-19-2014 | 12:56 PM
#59
Registered
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,480
Likes: 43
From: Tennessee
As Gimme mentioned, if you want to run sequential, you need to have a cam position sensor. In the case of the Mefi, the cam sensor allows you to run 2 knock sensors and have individual cylinder knock retard. With the Mefi, we make a 1x cam sensor that takes the place of the distributor. I'm not sure what the Holley uses. Haxby could better answer that. You can have DIS without the cam sensor, but it's so easy to incorporate it. There are some that are commercially available. I just didn't really care for them. The have a cast housing with a stamped steel wheel. They just look cheap to me. That's why we did a billet aluminum piece. It has a larger shaft, sealed roller bearings, the wheel is hard coat anodized, etc. Obviously, it costs more than the cast one, but I think it's worth it.
12-19-2014 | 02:45 PM
#60
Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 433
Likes: 14
From: Angola NY
As Gimme mentioned, if you want to run sequential, you need to have a cam position sensor. In the case of the Mefi, the cam sensor allows you to run 2 knock sensors and have individual cylinder knock retard. With the Mefi, we make a 1x cam sensor that takes the place of the distributor. I'm not sure what the Holley uses. Haxby could better answer that. You can have DIS without the cam sensor, but it's so easy to incorporate it. There are some that are commercially available. I just didn't really care for them. The have a cast housing with a stamped steel wheel. They just look cheap to me. That's why we did a billet aluminum piece. It has a larger shaft, sealed roller bearings, the wheel is hard coat anodized, etc. Obviously, it costs more than the cast one, but I think it's worth it.
