What head should I use
 

Hey guys

So I am rebuilding a gen 5 454 and want to know what heads would be best to use this this set up no aluminum heads as the budget does not allow for it looking for 400 to 500 hp max
So I currently have
Gil manifolds
Cam/lifters/push tubes from a 525sc cam number 132561
Forged rotating assembly with TWR 2399 pistons

Thanks for the help

What is your budget on a set of heads?

I don't know between free and 600

If you have valves and other hardware do yourself a favor and buy a new set of aluminum Brodix heads for $1100 and put them together. For $600 you are in the Chinese/ used area. If you buy chineese you minus well stop throw your money down the toilet and move on. If you buy used your probably going to need a valve job/ crack check whatever. And you are gonna be in a used set of steel heads for the same money. Unless you find a deal on something already done and hopefully they are what they are supposed to be. At that price point it's very hard to be "choosey" and not end up with a pile of junk. I would look for something in the 260-290 cc runner area. Hope this helps believe me I've been in your shoes more than once and ended up paying double what I would have if I had just bought new from the beginning.

I found a good deal on a set of 088 heads that only have 30 hrs on them. I might only put 10 hours a year on my boat we only do inland lakes and fresh water. I do mostly cruzing around and the odd wot blast. With the 088 and my set up I think my comp will be around the 8.5 to 1 is that right ? I would not mind it a bit higher

did you dyno the current motor

What are push tubes ?

That piston should put you around 8.75:1. Of course this depends on whether the heads been milled, deck milled, head gasket thickness, stock bore or overbore, etc

The one on your shoulders ? :bestwishes:

Not many in this world do anymore......sad.


Lol...Sorry. You opened the door....and it's Friday PM so I'm weirder than I normally am.

It had to be said. Surprised it took 8 posts.

personally I don't see much if any speed gains going from cast 454 heads to 502 mpi cast heads, jmo

I have a set of 188 Gen V heads that have 25 total hours on them. They are for sale in the swap shop springs, retainers, and locks are Isky. $850 and they are yours.

Also are the cam and lifters you mentioned above new or used?

Pushrods push tubes same thing different names. I am building off of a 330 hp 454 block some parts are new some are used. So do you think that the 088 will be my best option? Lol if I used my head I would have bought a 14 foot aluminium boat with a 15hp Jonson on the back and just went fishing

Well it's a good option if you want a nice head that is bolt on ready and don't want to spend a ton of money. Machine work is expensive, as are all the good parts needed to make it work. If your using a flat tappet cam you will want different springs, so I'll sell you my heads without springs for $650.00. That 525 cam isn't going to need roller springs. Is the 188 head the best head out there, no. But its a good head that was brand new prior to me using it. So it has only 24 hours of run time.

As for using used flat tappet cams, i personally wouldn't do it. Flat tappets need to spin, your cam already has a wear pattern in it and the lifters "may" not spin. At which time, your going to wipe out the cam, lifter and your engine. A used flat tappet lifter is a 100% NO!

There are ways to skimp and save money but reusing old lifter is not one of them. Just my opinion.

I was talking about 088 heads not 188 I do not know if they are the same or not. I have reused a cam and lifters before with success but I might use new lifters.

i have a hp500 efi take out cam that is like new for 200.plus the ride.i would not reuse that sc525 cam.

What is wrong with the 525sc cams are they not the same as the 420's

188 heads are mkiv, 088 are gen 5/6.
Wear patterns on flat tappet cams will cause 10 pages of debate. With low zinc oils, and good valve springs you are way better off with a roller cam. Or at the very least a new flat tappet. I don't believe the merc 525sc cam is the same as the 420. The hawk 525 might be though.

Here is a link to the cam I have I think. When I bought it the guy said it is from a gen 5. I thought gen 5 were rollers am I wrong
http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=24005

Sorry but my cam is for a gen 5 but has the same specs as the one in the link

Never mind got to quit going on oso while on holidays

Oops- it's been a while you are right the 088 is Gen V. Either way I would not reuse a flat tappet cam that came from another motor and there is zero chance that I would ever use someone elses old flat lifters.

That cam you have posted is a flat tappet. Read the description of the cam, it clearly says flat tappet. I hope you didn't pay much for it. Everything is a learning experience. If I was you I would scrap that cam and buy mike's cam. That along with my heads would make a nice combo that wouldn't break the bank.

Gen 5 flat tappet, gen 6 except 575sci for some damn reason roller.

I have a set of Pro comp heads for sale that are aluminum and COMPLETELY redone last summer, I have paperwork to show also, now out of the box Pro Comps are junk, I spent 1200.00 per set of heads to make right and add Inconel valves, they are good for approx 640 hp, I ahd all the "issues" known on these heads fixed... I need bigger heads to achieve my goals of 700HP so I am selling these.

If you have interest let me know asking 1150 a set, make offer, 440-476-4114

Ok so go with the 500 Efi cam and buy the rollers for the gen 5. Will using the 088 heads with the Pistons listed (30 over) get me to around the 450 mark?

Nobody give this guy any more advice untill he tells us what kind of boat its going in and promises to report back how it runs good bad or ugly lol just kidding but hey it would be nice you know . If you can swing making your gen5 a roller cam that would be a good idea . Or score a mag cam broken in with the lifters numbered to the cam lobe for 75 bucks . Thats ok too . Just make sure the lifter fit in the bores is good and run the correct expensive oilyour gonna get a season out of 8 qts by sounds of it anyway .add your manifolds and a good high rise and carb you should have your 400 horses with some low hour stock 502 or 454 mag heads gen 5 and off the shelf head gaskets borrow a valve spring compressor and leakdown tester take a look before putting it in ..for the life of me cant remember if the hp cams work with pressed in rocker studs of the later heads .you have some springs ? ? ?.must get more sleep .

Hopefully its a fairly light boat with a healthy drive it gonna be peakier than your avg peanut port putter with ls6 heads and a 502 performance cam and the rest of the 450 horse recepe

Yes- 088 heads and the 500 efi cam along with the pistons you are using, is basically an HP 450. The only other things you would need to have a 450 clone is a dart intake and holley 800 carb. If you are not familiar with the 450 it is the 454 version of an HP 500.

Also the heads I have have rocker studs so you can run whatever cam you want.

I also have the timing cover you need and a few other things. If you want to go this route let me know.

I also have factory roller lifters with retainers, PBM roller rockers that are identical to Crane golds... budget parts...

I wasn't aware of any bbc heads with pressed in studs

Me either. Maybe hes thinking of 3/8s bolts.

He mentioned later heads, thus he's confused. He did say he needs more sleep...LOL.

As we know, later heads he is referring to are stock with threaded bolts, but not adjustable...and adjustable hardware (studs) can be added.

Thanks guys. The boat it a 1994 baja 208 that is why I don't need more than 500 hp. It does have a bravo but the boat is light. I think I am going to go with the 088 heads and 500 cam with the full roller setup. Hopefully it all works out as my first trip will be a fishing trip with the family for a week lol

Yep late nite confusion i was thinking about non adjustablelate style prob .and i was just working on a set of gen 5 088 heads 2 days ago . And 351 cleveland heads and 5.0 vortecs. Tired of heads ..always like to hear about a good budget bbc build though

You arent gonna be anywhere near 500HP with 8:1 compression, the 088 heads, and 500EFI cam. Probably, more like 360HP.

What would you suggest

I don't need massave power but would like the 1hp per ci.

Disregard my above post. Im thinking of the other guy who had flat top pistons in the other thread. You have the 2399 Pistons. :-)

I fully understand everyone is on a tight budget. But, my opinion, bolting on a set of good aftermarket heads, even some Dart 308 Iron heads, would probably net you 40-50HP over the GM iron heads.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, if I only had XXX dollars to burn, I'd rather have a good set of flowing heads, than the roller lifter. I would bet my azz that this build with a set of Dart 308 heads with a good flat tappet hydraulic, will outperform a GM headed setup, with a mild roller.

Like I stated 1hp per ci. I put maybe 10 hours on a year. I think that a full roller set up might me alittle hardcore for what I want but who knows. I was hoping to use that cam I have already with a good set of 088 heads. Maybe I should just sell it all and buy a row boat. I know for a fact that the row boats engine runs best on beer and nachos

i agree with the above.if it were me i would get a used hp500efi cam and lifters along with the dart308 iron heads.if you have to wait a little longer to scrape up the money so be it.at the end of the day you will be much happier.

Heres a comparision of a 468ci with GM 088 Heads, vs 265 AFR heads. The AFR heads had a smaller chamber, and did offer a bump in compression. However, the numbers are a no brainer. First run was all being equal. Then they swapped manifolds on the AFR 265 to the air gap for a final pull. We are looking at gains across the board with the AFR head, and by 5700RPM, 70HP. Swapping from a flat tappet 420 merc cam, to a roller merc cam, is not gonna net anywhere near 70HP. But, if you can swing both, then its a real win. :bigbird:

088 Rec Ports AFR 265 Air Gap manifold
RPM HP TQ HP TQ HP TQ
3,300 307 489 317 506 343 547
3,600 339 495 361 526 383 558
3,900 370 498 393 531 418 563
4,200 398 498 425 543 449 561
4,500 431 503 455 564 481 562
4,800 466 510 516 569 513 561
5,100 498 512 552 566 543 559
5,400 522 508 582 556 569 553
5,700 532 490 603 556 588 542
6,000 534 468 617 540 599 524
6,300 541 451 622 518 601 501
6,600 521 415 620 493 594 473

normally I'd say you were right on your estimate,,but being the efi cam is 230,236 its bigger than the carbed hp500 cam,which is222, 224 in or there abouts(smaller than the crane 731,226 in).so if his motor is carbed,it will be closer to 480-500hp.depending on intake.
I made over 500hp w/ a flat tappet 230,236,ls110 9ish comp ratio.

also gander at edelbrocks dyno packages and their cams,,will give you a realist idea on head cam combos.