Water / Meth. Injection
 

Has anyone on here tried a water/ meth. injection on your engines;I know they work well on supercharged or turbo engines but they say you can use them on nonaspirated engines and offer a lot of benefits not to mention 45 to 50 HP per engine boost when used properly and tuned.????? thanks Jim

i don,t know about 40 hp but on those hot humid days the cooler intake charge is good for some power.

snow performance but IMO the supply tank would not be big enough to support a whole day on the water, I could be wrong.

less beer,more water/meth.tough decision.

That used to be the key to your survival , back in the day , on many turbo builds .couldnt really see a benefit on your mainstream low comp marine build even if you boat on a lake of high methanol content ozarka spring water and they were giving away free scuppers at mcdonalds.if the dyno says high octane gives you zilch , water -alcohol inj prob going to be zilch too

I heard if you put it on a 6.0 diesel you will get 28mpg towing your boat..........:479:

We run the Snow performance kits on out drag cars. We have a 12-1 BBC with iron heads and we use it to run cooler and not need as much octane. It works well and we only put 91 ethanol free in the tank. We're still dialing it in.

we run it on our turbo LS drag car, tried on procharged HP500 could not get to work right...went with much smaller jet than co said and still slowed the boat down when came on, we were only running 5-6 psi...sure with a very small jet could get to work...help ????

I know what you need!


http://brazzersgear.com/

I know a local guy who runs it on a blown drag car. he swears by it, but took a ton of tuning to dial it in.

Im sure somebody somewhere built a 12.5 to one dry to the tips marine sleeper motor and had some kind of alcohol - water injection to help it live . They just havent stepped forward. But for the boosted boat guys there is just too much abundance of free intercooler ready water

just not running enough boost normally to make it worthwhile....

This seems funny given how much time and money I've spent keeping water out of my engine.

Water methanol injection was invented in WWII IIRC. It was used to make out planes fly higher (NOT like the drug) and longer on a tank of fuel.

I run it on my Daily Driver corvette.

but its running 12.9 lbs at reline... its arms its self at 2psi, and starts spraying progressivly at 4lbs on. helps with intake temps like you woul dnot belive. BUT I dont see you wanting to do this in a boat....

the tank last a long time in a car, months..... for real with just a gallon or 2.

I don`t see why it couldn`t be run using a good filter and straight lake water. I had two kits all priced out but didn`t pull the trigger last year.

Mittens what are you seeing for intake temps with and without.. how many degree drop?

Dan.. if you can get it scienced out to work with lake water ( fresh water of course) then I'm in... I have been wanting to add it for years. Brad Zastro from your area had it on his MTI, & from what i herd it made a big difference. Good spring project: programmable ignition boxes & water injection:eating:

Bananarama , water doesn`t work as well by it self and then theres the possible calcium build up that could screw up the nozzles or a piece of sand.. I wanted to do it just because no one else has but I will gladly let you be the pioneer :D
Now that my gas tanks are smaller I actually have some room for meth tanks however... no room in my budget once again this year thou.. one day.

I ran water/alcohol, injection back in 1988 on a non intercooled small roots blower set up, I had a 3 gallon tank that was pressurized by the blower. Had a solenoid that would open at 2lbs of boost activated by a hobbs switch in the intake manifold. so once I got the nozzles sized correctly, the system was on autopilot! more boost made more pressure in the tank, and more water introduced to the intake system. it would take weeks to empty the tank, and you could experiment and make any "cocktail" to inject. I had great results with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. mainly used to fight detonation because I have always tried to run as much timing on the big end as was safe. this helped. also had a 150 shot of NOS at the time as well. 6 valve mechanical fuel pump supplied more than enough fuel when "on the button" spark plugs were two heat ranges colder that the stock 43s. Just an FYI.

abones I would love to hear more about that setup you ran... I can't fit inner coolers & I won't do the Whipple ones.. So that being said I would love to use a set up like you mentioned, sounds like a great way to go

Sure! I will look for my old boat file on the Checkmate and get as much vender (tank and solenoid) info together for you and go over the installation. I will be gone for the next two weeks with company work stuff (Starting Thursday if I can shake this flu) but I will PM you upon my return.

Cool thanks abones

I tried it in my boat, twin turbo diesels.

Water alone only lowered EGT, no power or mpg improvement.

50/50 gave a noticeable boost in power, same reduction in EGT, and a significant reduction in diesel consumption. However the actual costs per mile are higher as methanol is expensive. I decided to take it out, but I have been thinking about putting it back in and using the forward fuel tank (47 gal) as my water/meth tank, or installing a 20 gallon tank for 50/50 mix. I can put a tee in my freshwater tank outlet line if I want water only that tank is 40 gallons so it will last 3 hours at cruising speeds. The thing is that i only need the EGT reduction at WOT. I am around 1200 degrees wide open 56-58mph, but if I back off to 50 mph my EGT drops to 950 or so.

It would be nice to have the extra power on demand to get into the 60's but I hate to ruin an engine for a few mph. I have the Snow performance generic kit with the controller and a bunch of nozzles, if someone wanted to buy it to try out. I think it would be complete waste for an NA engine, unless it had some crazy setup.

you are correct feeding two engines that tiny tank that comes with the kit lasts minutes, you have to use a larger tank.

Same set up i ran .i just didnt have the nads to admit it . Remember trying to find distilled water and 90% in the boonies back in the day.i ran a bladder tank that was pressurized ,enderle barrell valve controlled the flow..knew a guy ran a similar system on a turbo gs1100 .really helped him too

So why not just run straight water injection? It will cool the IAT and EGT significantly and be cheap to run. In your case there's no need to run any meth.

Without methanol injection and just using air-to-air intercooler I saw 60 to 70°F increase in intake air during an 1/8 mile pass.
With methanol injection the intake air temperature only increased by 10° during either 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile passes.

SO i would think in the Constant heat soaked bildge, and solid RPMs it would help alot.

Meth is not to pricy, 5 gallons VP meth is 24 bucks here.

because at anything except WOT lowering my EGT by 30 or 40 degrees is irrelevant. It does nothing for me. Those engines will run for thousands of hours in the 950 degree EGT range, I don't gain anything by lowering it 40 degrees except another system to maintain on the boat. It doesn't give any additional HP or MPG water alone. Yes for when I want to run wide open it would give me a little extra safety net, but I don't feel it is worth having the system installed just for that.

Ok so that is 50% more expensive than diesel fuel. So at 50 mph hr cruise I burn 25 gph. About 7 of those gallons would get displaced by the 50/50 water meth mixture which would be 3.5 gallons of meth. So it works out to $81.25/hr diesel only, and $75.30/hr diesel and 50/50. Small savings for all that aggravation and the hassle of going and getting the meth and adding it to the tank 5 gallons at a time, mixing with water ect. I have to check the prices here locally again maybe it has gotten cheaper but last time I checked it was more expensive not cheaper. Diesel at the marina is currently $3.25.

Where do you buy it from up there? When I search online I see it for $45 and $50 for 5 gallons for VP M1.

Also if you have proper airflow in your bilge that heat soaked thing is a myth. I have temp sensors on the supply and return fuel lines and fuel temp only goes up 10-15 degrees passing through the engines. Actually the fuel in the tank gets warmed up about 20 degrees on a long trip even with a full tank. That costs about 10hp per motor.

I was told that the snow meth inj mix is nothing more than the blue windshield washer fluid, if that is true I would think it would be cheap to run

Not true, washer fluid is around 30% meth, so it will work for towing to reduce egt and for a little extra power. If you make your own or by the boost juice from snow it is 50/50. Unfortunately here in Miami they don't sell washer fluid with meth in it because we don't have to worry about it freezing here. But in a climate where they sell it might be worth a shot, but I wonder what happens to all that blue dye.

It's more than just that, but you can make your own mix using dry gas. Just don't get fought with too much because the po po will be thinking your making crystal meth!!

if i was going to be running this in something that was going to burn a lot.... I would be buying it in a 50 gallon drum.


alot cheaper then my 25 buck 5 gallon jugs... i think 55 gallons is 200ish.


i posted info on temps and amounts, but I dont thinnk this would be something worth it on a boat. just my thinking.

From VP website 54 gallon drum, if you know where to get them for $200 please tell me where because then it works for me to put the system in the boat.

M1 Methanol $486
M3 Methanol $555.12
M5 Methanol $594

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/racing-fuel

You are correct form there sight.. but they also say a 5 gallon one is 53 bucks... and I buy it locally for 23-35 bucks... so maybe not 200 but under 300

:DRHR on Power Boat Nation has info and kits he has on shelfs :DYou should contact him!

couldn't find anyone by that username on there, anyways I already have a snow performance kit

Watching a non intercooled 1071 blower make 140* in the intake , and an intercooled 1071 setup make 112* in the intake, I wonder what meth would bring it down to? The intercooled setup on the dyno had prob 60 deg water flowing thru it. But what about at loto when the water temp going thru the intercooler is 85*? I would think the chemical intercooling could be more effective at bringing the charge temps down, and offer the benefit of a higher octane fuel

yes Joe.. much cooler charge temp a real detonation killer... turn up the blower!! sit dawn shut up and hang on b*tches!!!

MT What was the AFR of the 10 71 blown motor? Some guys use fat AFR's to cool.