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What's wrong with AFR's exhaust port?

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Old 03-11-2015 | 07:06 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
Makes sense to me Mark. I really have no dog in the fight, I just like FACTS, not politics.

Its funny, I was just sitting here drinking my evening coffee, and reading a thread on another boating site. The thread consisted of a flow test on a new set of AFR heads, tested by an independent engine builder, along side a pair of out of the box dart heads. In that thread, the AFR's did not flow what they were claimed to, on this particular persons bench. And it was a repeat of the oso debate.
On a different thread back in 2011, Articfriends/Smitty, posted a link to a website that shows several flow bench tests of several different head designs and companies, etc...including AFR and all their BBC head designs and ports, etc.....were done by what looked like several or at least a few different flow bench shops. (I tried copy/pasting the link to this thread, but it doesn't work for some reason) Although some of the tests varied from flow bench company to flow bench company, it never showed the AFR Exhaust ports as being a lagging port as JimV has claimed.
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Old 03-11-2015 | 07:41 PM
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Heres the flow numbers from that thread I'm speaking of

Next: AFR 305 as-cast, assembled from AFR with their valves, 2.25 intake with backcut (angle unknown) AFR 1.88 exhaust.
AFR as-cast advertised:
right/ex

.2 154/131
.3 223/176
.4 287/219
.5 335/251
.6 363/276
.7---------

Truth:
right/left/ex

.2 146/143/109
.3 209/210/144
.4 268/276/185
.5 324/327/223
.6 366/336/250
.7 361/343/262
.8 ---/345/271

The bowls are nicely CNC blended but transition from the seat to the chamber is terrible. The exhaust port I believe suffers far worse because of this than the intake.


Now, he didnt have the advertised flow numbers from the darts. Dart doesnt have the flow numbers on their site, but I do have their master catalog here, that does. So, heres what my catalog shows for the 310's.

.200 147/136
.300 219/175
.400 275/210
.500 318/233
.600 347/249
.700 364/258
.800 .369/266

Here is what that builder got on his bench with the out of the box dart heads
Left/Right/Exhaust
.2 140/141/111
.3 207/207/151
.4 271/271/192
.5 322/312/227
.6 351/329/254
.7 365/329/271
.8 341/335/281
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Old 03-11-2015 | 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KAAMA
On a different thread back in 2011, Articfriends/Smitty, posted a link to a website that shows several flow bench tests of several different head designs and companies, etc...including AFR and all their BBC head designs and ports, etc.....were done by what looked like several or at least a few different flow bench shops. (I tried copy/pasting the link to this thread, but it doesn't work for some reason) Although some of the tests varied from flow bench company to flow bench company, it never showed the AFR Exhaust ports as being a lagging port as JimV has claimed.
KAAMA, can you scan your copy and then post? I have a fair amount of flow data on numerous BBC intake/exhaust ports. On the intake side we flowed BBC intake ports from 305cc to 323cc and also enlarged the exhaust port to as large as we could get and still port match to the exhaust manifold. What I don't have is any proof that 5-7% more exhaust flow ever produced any more torque or HP. What I do know is that 5 different head porters (including Jim Valako, Sonny L and a NASCAR Cup shop) could not improve much/any on the published flow numbers of the AFR CNC 315 intake port, but all could improve on the exhaust port #'s. It is very possible that improving the exhaust port flow (enlarging the port) didn't add any HP/torque so maybe that is why AFR doesn't make the exhaust port any bigger.....or maybe they relish the publicity they get on-line

Last edited by BenPerfected; 03-11-2015 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 03-11-2015 | 08:48 PM
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Kaama, I know the site youre speaking off. Heres some numbers I got off there.

Dart 335 CNC 4.5 bore no pipe and AFR 335 cnc 4.6" bore, no pipe . Then AFR 335 cnc 4.6'' bore, WITH 2 1/8TH PIPE. Dart is top numbers

.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
174/136 245/178 306/235 353/265 383/282 401/296
170/133 249/178 313/230 362/259 396/268 405/273
164/144 240/197 304/257 352/285 385/311 404/319

Without the pipes, looks like darts ex ports flow more? Would have been interesting to see the darts port WITH the 2 1/8 pipe. Couldnt find any flow data with a pipe on a dart head on that site.
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Old 03-11-2015 | 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by KAAMA
MT, I did not want to reprint your entire post, but in a previous post within this thread, I had said I am willing to contribute one of my 565cid engines that have been sitting since 2008 at Dave W's shop that have the AFR 315cc fully cnc'd ports that were modified by JimV back around the month of March or in 2005. JimV modified the exhaust ports on my/those AFR heads and I have also already posted the CFM numbers within this thread.

I will supply the JimV modified Exhaust port, AFR cnc'd heads and test engine (one of my 565cid engines), Mike Tkack supplies the AFR 315cc heads untouched,...then with all due respect to JimV, if he truly believes his own porting techniques with his own hand on a set of AFR cnc'd heads can increase a reasonable amount of HP/Torque output on a dyno, then let him pay Dave W for the dyno time. My engines stay at Dave W's shop...if any work needs to be done to conduct the test such as new valve springs, installed spring height, head/intake gaskets, valve job, etc, etc. then it will be done in Dave W's shop. If anyone else wants to contribute towards the cause of the test, then I suppose they can, but I don't think it would be fair without a contribution from JimV....at least he or we can save money on the "plane tickets" as we can conduct the test right here in his living area.

And if the test comes out in JimV's favor and there is a significant increase in HP on the dyno, then JimV may reap the rewards from selling the porting projects from future customers he may gain from the results of the test---and people can go to him for the port work. Again, with all due respect to JimV, he is the one making a public claim on this forum about the AFR cnc'd Exhaust port not being as good as it could or should be, then let him be the one to put his own money where his mouth is by fronting and contributing towards the costs of the test. And if it his modified port work on a set of cnc ported AFR Exhaust ports turn out to be what he says it will be, then he can tell us all that he told us so.

From what I remember, JimV has not proved once in a back to back dyno test how much increased HP his port work has done/will do on a set of heads. If he has, then from what I know he has not made it public to prove his point on here.
I would throw 100$ in towards dyno time to see this!
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Old 03-12-2015 | 12:21 AM
  #186  
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Joe, according to Bob-o you can`t go to Dave`s shop remember. Guess we will never know .
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Old 03-12-2015 | 06:41 AM
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I will donate the dyno time. We are in the middle of crunch time for this years projects but will have time after the 2nd week in June.
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Old 03-12-2015 | 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by brian41
I will donate the dyno time. We are in the middle of crunch time for this years projects but will have time after the 2nd week in June.
brian,he said it would need to happen at wesseldyk,s shop.i doubt dave would have a problem with mild being at his shop but a phone call would be the first thing to do.that was a very generous offer on your part.
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Old 05-25-2015 | 01:46 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by the deep
Although they say nothing about seat widths they do mention vgc in the literature as follows : Our typical valve guide clearances are .0013 - .0016 . In some severe applications ( nitrous , marine endurance racing or blower usage ) looser guides might be required . Check with your engine builder .
Wish this was told to me long ago if asked and was assured my heads can be bolted on...wanna guess result? [ATTACH=CONFIG]541405[/ATTACH]
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Old 05-25-2015 | 01:47 PM
  #190  
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At least I got 1.5 hours of boating in after full new rebuilds, never even saw WOT... Very sad
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