Wrong how? Mislabeled/packaged incorrectly, bad temper/heat treat, joe schmoe installed go kart spring in pro stock engine?

one of my sets of heads came with the solid roller springs..... noticed one pair of heads had totally different springs then the other, we checked them and I had 290 seat and 720 open on port engines heads, forget the actual numbers for other engine but they were the 8002 springs I ordered....

Was this on the head that failed?

No, we know for sure the failure was stuck lifter, but still had other things to deal with like guides and now spring issue, like I said this has turned into a perfect storm of events, things most guys would not catch, I am not a rookie but also not stupid, I cant believe the springs are different.... I never noticed it...

i am suprised those springs did not colapse the lifters instantly on startup.

Me too... So crazy

tim,never buy a lottery ticket,they will call you and say you owe the winner his money.man you have bad luck.

You can clearly see the difference in springs when you are looking for it...

I am in NO WAY trying to bash afr or any person, not at all....

I am posting because you guys gotta look closer I guess at bolt on ready heads because although everyone's telling me I am the issue and there are tons of afr and other brands with no issues out there, it can happen is all I am saying, sorry guys pics don't lie, gauges don't lie... I got the one and only set or sets if issues, could have been a bad day for me I don't know but clearly I am saying check heads before bolting on simple as that.... Lesson learned .... The hard way... That's normal for
Me.

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That's just scary..

I may not of read that you pinned it to a lifter being stuck. I may be reading it wrong but the rookie and the stupid I am not calling just want to see why it failed and learn something.

You and I have had many conversations lately, you know what I put into this and plain and simple some was just not my fault, guys on Oso only see what I post, makes me look dumb maybe but I am not at all, just bad luck haha oh well all I can do is fix it!!

wow

Learned there was a miscommunication of what actual lifter to bore clearance is acceptable... .0012-.0015 is NOT, especially with 60 degree lake water... Let's just say I was with my machinist today opening up and honing lifter bores, and other engine will be coming out and apart it looks like just to make sure.

Again I am not trying to make trouble for AFR or anyone else just facts, AFR is working with me to resolve the issues at hand and I know they will make it right and I will for sure buy afr again for future engines, my cobra has maxed out heads it needs afr on it lol

You have bad luck hope it turns around pulling motors apart that aren't broke sucks,

If I didn't have bad luck I would not have any....

better than pulling out motors apart that are broke imo!

Well I am doing both, I can tell ya it sucks more when broke !!!

That's very true. Had something like this happen with a bad efi tune up killed a piston in one motor and detonated the other motor stuck all the second compression rings. the motors only had about 3Hrs on them. :picard1:

You should have your machinist check the valve jobs while he's at it.

i tore an engine apart yesterday,i was amazed at two mistakes i found.the engine was built by a high quality shop so i guess anyone can make mistakes.

[QUOTE=mike tkach;4311303]i tore an engine apart yesterday,i was amazed at two mistakes i found.the engine was built by a high quality shop so i guess anyone can make mistakes.[/

What u find

very bad alignment of the rocker arm on the valve stem,did not have adjustable guide plates and the rocker studs were .750 long on the head side,even on the exhaust.i am suprised it did not break the stud boss.also had street hyd roller lifters instead of endurance lifter.this is a 565 pro charged engine that came to me for a refresh and to up the power.i am going to raise the compression and go with a solid roller.it is for a 26 ft cat.

I planned to stay out of this one, but since we are into the technical part I guess my .02 might possibly be helpful to someone. I purchased my first set of AFR heads way back in like 94 for a SBC Tune Port engine. They worked great, withstanding many a 200hp nitrous shot. I then upgraded the ECM to the newly released Accel DFI system, and dropped a valve grenading the engine on the test drive. No other engine changes besides the ECM and wiring harness.

As a new dealer for AFR they were very helpful in isolating the issue and repairing the head with half a valve stuck through the combustion chamber. I felt the failure was due to weak springs they used. Something caused it to float out and pop the keepers, obvious by where the valve stem broke. After a bit of back and forth discussion they ask for the cam profile and RPM where it let go. When I said it let go at only 7200R's they instantly said there's your problem... I'd been RPM limited by the stock ECM to like 6500 since the engine was built. The DFI system removed that rev limiter. Seems those early hydraulic roller cam profiles were never designed to exceed 7000. AFR backed it up with good documentation, tested all the other springs, and sent me back a head looking good as new.

I sold a few more SBC sets for them, but switched to World Products on our race car. Even those needed seats cut to match the new cam and spring rate setup we used to spin 9000R's. Last I knew that old set of AFR's was still running on a small block in a boat spinning 5k daily. Morale here is don't take for granted the springs on anyone's heads. Pay close attention to spring compressed rating and clearance called for by the cam manufacture. Then check and recheck it before ever bolting them on an engine. And by no means just bolt heads on out of the box no matter how pretty they look....

Having worked in a prototype/engineering enviornment it was amazing how much assembled hardware was returned to the vendor due to out of tolerance machining or sub-assembly piece parts. The uniqueness of many of these engine builds would qualify them as first article inspection which means a 100% teardown and QC inspection versus accepting the suppliers/builders reputation.
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Ok guys , I had my builder check the valve guide clearances on my new AFR 315's . Clearances were .0018 and will be opened up a bit . Now for the kick in the azz , my heads were assembled DRY :eekdrop::eekdrop::eekdrop: Tim bought his heads about the same time I did sooooooo come to your own conclusion . I posted this because it was the ethical thing to do to maybe save another brother from heartbreak . Also checked the coding on my springs when I received the heads simply because there was ZERO documentation that they were changed out to what I ordered , they were correct . What the hell's going on at the AFR plant that they would ship out a set of $3100.00 + heads assembled phucking DRY . I tend to leave NOTHING to chance but did not expect this !!!!!

Mine are dry also. I've seen this trend not only with AFR's also Brodix.

Pretty sure all box heads that way... From what I know

Yeah I don't even think you get any lube with the $20,000 heads either. Actually if you think about it they might have to ship differently if they did....

Deep, maybe that is how they set guide clearance now. Just wear in the correct tolerance on start up... LOL.. I've been out of the biz far to long to add anything else useful. But in the day I learned the hard way too. A local machine shop got me when they forgot to wash the heads after bead blasting. I bolted onto a fresh bottom end and it came back smoking few days later. Evidence was stuck to the rings. They covered the costs but ultimately it was my failure to catch it. So your right on to point out their problems. I'd be on the phone with them if they arrived to me like that. Possibly they sub out the assembly now. Who knows...

PS, make sure that engine is right. I might wanta buy that ride off ya one day.. :ernaehrung004:

Its looking like a lot of guys may be realizing these heads aren't as bolt on and go as they thought .

We are getting different guide clearance numbers , guides with no lube, incorrect springs installed on them, and haven't even got into the valve jobs yet.

I think its a pretty safe bet, that you are better off buying these heads bare, and setting them up yourselves, or complete and then disassemble, check, and then bolt on.

There's no way I'd drop the dough on these heads and just bolt them on and hope for the best. Heck, even Tims spring mishap. That be real nice scenario if you're running a mild cam, and you don't even realize you have nearly 300lbs of seat pressure and 700+ open on your little 500hp 454 build.

I can say this Bob M and AFR are taking care if my situation and in the engine world and as a small guy that means a ton to me. I will admit I wanted to hate but I can't all parties involved are making me a happy customer.

Yes Joe in futire I will for sure buy every head bare and know theyvare set to what my guy does, I learned something too bad it had to be this way... Lol

More and more one understands the price tag associated with custom builds from reputable builders. They just don't bolt together a bunch of parts out of box and have the engine on the dyno in 30 minutes like they do on Powerblock TV.

I watch Horsepower TV for laughs. It's too bad it's in the morning and not evening, because then I would feel better about drinking beer watching it. ;)

Glad to hear that they are stepping up and helping you out. Looks like you might just get to enjoy the summer on the water after all.

I will enjoy anyway even if it meant selling parts off and buying 420's I am not the type of boater to kiss a season... Won't happen

Hmmm , here's your new crate engine , by the way it was assembled dry . BULLCHIT Nowhere does it state BEWARE : These heads are assembled dry . In my book there is no reasoning or excuse for this chit . If you want to assemble them that way fine but at least make it known . By the way assembly lube is not shipped in hazardous containers . I can't say BULLCHIT enough times .

Were they all dry, or just some of them? When I ran my motor on the stand, I noticed what appeared to be oil coming out around several of the exhaust valves inside the ports. I was a little worried that I had a valve guide or seal leaking, so i asked AFR about it, and they said it appeared to be assembly lube leaking out. So I guess that at least means mine weren't assembled dry. Haven't looked at them since to see if there is any more evidence of oil, but I will be installing a new set of header gaskets pretty soon, so I'll have a look at them then.

Yes Bud , all were dry . Sounds like yours were assembled correctly . Somebodies azz needs fired .