Between Bob and afr yes.

when afr checked your stem to guide clearance did they report what they found?

Not sure yet,I had bronze on a a valve or two and I used 2 different methods showing guides tight, with a combo of issues we found the head is on way to me and my old one is on the way to afr, they dropped a head on the truck to me as fast as they could so that's pretty cool I didn't have to wait weeks for a head...

tim,are you saying afr sent you a head under warranty before they inspected the head in question?most company,s wont do that.when i had a problem with an edelbeock head for a harley i had to get a rma number and until they recieved&inspected the head i was in limbo.

Just how tight were the guides Tim? Also, what did AFR say about the roller springs?

RMbuilder/MK/BM has very good pull with many companies and individuals inside the companies. In fact, it's quite amazing to see his relationships with them in person. I can personally attest to that.
Wilson Manifolds/AFR/Katech/Darrin Morgan/Tony Mamo/Cam Motion/Willy's/Pro Systems/ GMPP, and more.

sb,i understand what you are saying.years ago when i had the problem with the edelbrock head the retailer/dealer that i bought the parts from was a personal friend of vic edelbrock[owner of the company]but it did not matter,the rma number and part inspection was still required.this is the reason why i asked the question.if a company like afr sent a head for free to every person that had some sort of issue with a product before they had a chance to inspect the part in question they would have no need for a warranty department because they would go broke.i am not trying to start anything but to me it appears that something else had to happen for afr to send a free head out before they got the part in question back to be examined.

Bob paid for the head out of pocket from what he told me. I guess if they inspect it and see it as a warranty issue maybe they'll credit bob.

That's a standup guy!!! We need more people like Bob around here.

That IS great customer service !!!

and if they deem it as a non warranty issue bob is out the price of the head.not many reatilers will step up and do that,i know i would not just from a financial standpoint.

Yes that is what happened, I measured twice, 2 different tools, I have a normal wear on valves and had wrong springs in one set, I think all around there was multiple issues causing my failure, Bob stood up and helped me out to get me on water, that means a ton, I am sure if afr insists the head was fine and makes Bob pay he can either pay them for all the issues to me or contact me and see what we can do, Bob offered to take care of it for my troubles and I thought that was very cool of him, there was miscommunication and multiple people paid the price I already have 2500 into fixing it and Bob felt it was fair to a take a role in helping. If that decision changes I am sure Bob would contact me and we work it out.

:bigbird: :frog: :cool:

Now if we could get rid the the troublemakers (I mean ICDEDPPL) plus a few that want to be the "know it alls" that constantly discredit the professionals in the business we can get some of the real professionals to come back and post without be called names.

Tim,
Awesome of you to come by and show interest.

A quick suggestion that I loved to see on some other cyl heads being shipped, a small tag wired to each head showing what spring was installed and how. Obviously won't help consumer if seats/guides/ not correct, however, for those bolting on heads (which many customers do) without pulling apart and double checking everything, they will know they got sent the right spring package. Is a great quality control item for the manufacturer and customer.

Yeah but he's a good guy he sent Budman a spring for his fuel pump.

Thats a good suggestion SB. I think AFR is a great company. I know Tony Mamo would post on a bunch of sites answering any questions or issues with their heads, which is/was really cool. I like how when I emailed AFR directly regarding the purchase of their heads, they made sure to mention the valve guide clearance thing in their response to me. Alot of companies will not/do not, provide that information to you right off the bat. Not only does it protect them ,but the consumer as well.

As far as Tim Full Force's situation, its nice to see he is getting some help. Good luck getting it back on the water Tim.

Thanks Joe, been a long couple weeks, I will have head this week and hope to finish assembly end of the week or next weekend...

if it costs bob full price he won't lose in the long run. he already has a pretty damn good rep here and other places. this sure won't make it worse...

Maybe if you got your head out your ass and got a sense of humor there wouldnt be a problem. Don`t even get me started why I don`t like bob and have issues with him.(trust me I`m not the only one) I see you why you two are best buds for life same no sense of humor either of you.

I am just curious, why do you have an issue with Bob? I heard that he helped you out get your motors straight, went to some pretty great lengths to do that, and for nothing in return.

You know what F U too buddy ..Aren`t you busy out there playing tuner checking plugs while burning holes in pistons?
I sent the guy a spring he needed, he said thanx, end of story , get over it.
I see all your little buddies like your post maybe you guys can start a anti Dan club , talk about how great bob is and how horrible I am. Bring popcorn gonna be a long meeting.

What!? :bong:
I`m sorry man but thats not even close to what happened. Myself, Mild Thunder and buddy Mike at High Flow heads fixed my valve train issues.
I bought a set of rockers from him and got some paperwork on setting up the valve train but Mild thunder was the one who really did all the homework to set that up.
I have my reasons you want a list ? Bob would have a coronary if I put it on paper.
I know it`s a crime not be in line with with the bob worship here but I`ve never been known for being politically correct.

Just heard he helped you out with some issues, so wasn't sure where the relationship went south.

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I get the feeling his sense of humor went right out the window on that one. Sorry Dan! didn't mean to upset you like that. I'll make sure I walk on egg shells from now on.

Well, for the record, and not that I want to get drawn into the middle of this :gfight:, but I clicked "like" because BB forgot to use his "sarcasm font" on his post. You know, if we were all sitting around at a dockside bar having a beer and talking boats together, I doubt if we would be getting into all of these pissing matches. But of course I could be wrong! :picard1:

Tim, not sure if you are still watching this thread after all the fireworks, but I have a set of AFR 265's on my engine, and based on the fact that they have the light blue paint on the springs, I am pretty sure they have the Pioneer springs for a hyd roller application. If I decide to upgrade to a better set of PAC hyd roller springs, can the same keepers and retainers be used, or will I have to swap all of that stuff as well. I am asking on here because there may be a number of other AFR users who may want to follow suit at some point. Thanks!

My take on Tim's problems are on at least 2 members of OSO that he talked to daily behind the scenes (I read it here so it has to be true). NOBODY had to step up to the plate and help Tim after the fact because the guilt is on him, his mentors and his "builder" not any of the companies that supplied any of the parts. Bottom line is he spent good money on good parts, listened to the wrong experts and got cheap on the building process. Where were his OSO experts with all their knowledge and numbers before the build ? They sure jumped on the fault ban wagon after the "disaster". A few members including myself tried to give him sound advise but he and his mentors shrugged it off as nonsense "we get away with this all the time". He was given sound numbers from the manufacturers and suppliers for a properly built engine that we build all the time without issues, NOT a engine that has to be on the extreme loose side to compensate for a thermal unstable engine. This subject was discussed early in his rebuild thread and again was discredited by his "experts". They should foot the bill for the new parts not the manufacturer or the supplier.

Was anybody beside his internet "experts" surprised this happened? Not me I saw the "perfect storm" coming on page 1 of his re-power thread.

ICDEDPPL even your "friends" think you are wrong. I think you are an idiot!!!

Tim ordered each set of heads at separate times, I bet that played a role in things. That may have been mentioned before, but I was just rereading the build thread and it caught my eye.

Do you know how to read minds? Oh wait a minute you were just speaking the truth. You and a bunch of others have been thinking the same thing.

Brian, I am glad you are in the calling out mood. While you may think the world revolves around you and your little expert engine building crew, and how everyone should shut their mouths when you guys decide to grace us with your presence here, I can assure you it doesn't. I can also assure you there are a growing number of "unhappy" customers that are simply too afraid to post anything, because of threats from your group, attorneys involved, and all kinds of good stuff. Many who are tired of the persistant insults that go on behind the scenes regarding people who spend big money with your friend, other engine builders who have had their fill of the behind the scenes gossip/insults, lies, and many other situations.

Last time I checked, this is a website for BOAT OWNERS to discuss their boats, engines, etc. Not a place for you to smear your "Im a holley EFI installer and dealer" posts.

I'm glad that you feel Tim's issues, are his own fault, and insinuating maybe mine as well?? lmao, I live 300 miles from Tim, and have got text updates from him. I can assure YOU, that I never told him his lifter bore clearances were good to go, his valve guide clearances were good to go, that information according to Tim, came right from Bob and Johnson.

Keep patting yourself on the back though, and your buddy. Oso is gonna get very interesting soon when the truths start coming out from many avenues. I already bought two tickets to that show. I say thank you for repeatedly stoking the fire, and also for being the true ASSET you are to this forum.

Oh, and Brian41, remember a few months back, when you and your boy got angry because I contacted AFR directly for a head recommendation? You pm'ed me with how uncool it was of me to do so? How you "heard" from YOUR VENDOR, that I made my own interpretation of that recommendation, and brought that to oso. As if I was trying to bullchit the oso community. I can assure you, I am not a liar, nor a bullchitter. Check with the sales department on your speed dial if you wanna hear sales pitches and claims.

Well, for starters, I was unaware that anyone who was interested in purchasing a set of AFR heads, had to go thru your friend. As far as making my own interpretation of what they recommended, which according to you was to "further my agenda", not sure how many ways I could interpret this response from AFR. Keep listening to your buddies on what they think is going on, and how time and time again they have blew their gaskets when the simple thought someone isnt kissing their azz on oso, and start making phone calls and threats.......

Tell me...... what it is you do for a living?

Yes because I never built engine before, scott never did, and same for Victory racing... Never done it no success... You have no clue what was discussed on phone with others and yes very well known builders, I am so sick of every person thinking I "cheaped out" gimme a break.... Why? Because I asked advice and I didn't do exactly as some said? I was told things were bolt on, and clearances were ok by some of the best on this site... Yes I cheaped out by spending 30,000.00 and buying all parts I was told to buy... I am so cheap and disrespectful I listened to nobody... Yes that is what happened... NOT...

The last thing I did was "cheap out" and "ignored advice" wtf dude. I am sure you have never had any kind of failure because you are perfect well guess what things happen...

By buddy that helped me is by far not a newbie and has 25 years of success so yes he's the issue huh? Victory engines is very successful also...

Not everything was posted I wish I would never have made a build thread and posted anything...

You ASSume you know exactly what was talked about "behind closed doors" you do not...

Gravel hauler / desk top dyno operator. :food-smiley-007:

This place has become bs anymore if you don't listen to ONE person you are doomed... Next time I will not post anything at all.

None of your business. But, a classy response as usual from such a huge asset to the forum.

That has zero to do with anything really....

My buddy works for miller lite during the day, but he sure can build engines in garage.... Soooooo ? Who cares what a day job is...