Who has had issues with afr heads??
 

We know what's going on with full force but all bs aside, who has had issues with afr heads? Who has had out of the box problems? Is there a wide spread problem or an isolated incident?

Do we ?

We know he had a failure, with yet to be determined causes.

Jamie, all smart azz bullchit aside, I have talked with a few builders who have said they always have to size the guides in their out of the box AFR heads. I have also heard of a few afr heads that recently needed to be welded up due to seized valve issues. But, that won't be posted on oso. personally would not run any head out of the box, without checking clearances, valve job, concentricity, etc. These heads are not cheap castings money wise, and just don't trust anyones head out of the box.

I highly doubt guys like Eddie Young, Richie Zul, Tommy Hoffstetter, Bob Teague, sterling, etc, are bolting on cylinder heads as they come shipped from manufacturer's. Whether it be dart, afr, brodix, etc.

My friendly advice to anyone buying heads from any manufacturer, would be to have them checked out. It doesnt cost a lot of money to have a shop size the guides, and check them out before bolting on the engine. Today, everyone loves making big power, and it's easy to do so. 20 years ago, a 750HP build would have been gone over like it was gonna be powered a nasa space shuttle. Today, guys are slapping 750's together like they are 1976 station wagon motors.

In no way shape or form, do i think afr has quality issues. They are a great head and a good price. But, even when the manufacturer tells you, that you need to size the guides on our assembled heads when you recieve them, I'd say , you might wanna size the guides. There is no bullchitting from them, they are very clear on that, and I applaud them for supplying that information, both on their site, and in their emails to customers.

:hitfan::food-smiley-007:

Its NOT Afr....

Its ANY high performance part that goes together without being checked

Along with INCORRECT instructions from an engine designer!

personally I think the head manufactures say to size the guides so they don't have a law suite against them its there out if something goes wrong. And they can make a mistake on sizing and they are covered. I don't think they should sell them assembled if that's the case.

Yep kinda defeats the purpose of buying assembled heads. And drives the expense even higher. I hope people see this and realize why a build is so expensive. I didn't start this to point blame or bash, just so people know if there is a big problem or what?? Joe thanks for the info and I did receive paperwork with all afr heads saying to verify guide clearance to your application.

Every set of AFR heads we have ever installed or sold has needed the guides opened up. Despite being "bolt on ready" every part and clearance needs to be checked EVERY time, plain and simple. It seems that some of my personal frustrations as a professional engine builder are starting to be seen by a larger percentage of the general population.

I have to ask. If "Every" installed set of AFR's had to have the guides opened up. Just exactly was the out of the box clearance? And if you open them up what are they being opened up to? I ask out of curiosity not to start an argument. When we measure 2 intake and 2 exhaust we got .0018 across the board. We re-checked this measurement a bunch of times even re-calibrated the gauge cause it didn't seem right to us that they all came up the same. At this point I asked the guy that built my friends motor with new out of the box Brodix heads of he measured the guide clearance. He said most of them were .0013 but a few got up to .0017. He left them what they were from Brodix and explained to me he likes to see them under .0015 and thought the AFR's were a little on the loose side. I was happy with the clearance and don't plan on touching what was measured so far. My only complaint with the AFR's is my T&D stands didn't bolt right on. There was roughly .010 of casting that had to be addressed which was no big deal and who's fault was that really. I don't know what kinds of experiences you guys have building motors but for me it always seems like it's an uphill battle. Nothing ever fits the grinder always comes out (never gets put away really). But it is what it is. I've probably put my new bottom end together 20-30 times at this point and its sitting completely apart right now...

You need to start building simpler sh!t lol

My Father always told me I needed to get my head examined.

Mine always said: if you can't afford double of what ever you are building, don't build it.

Mine told me to find something worthwhile to throw my money at. That, and "turn those damned lights off and close the front door, we don't want to air condition the whole neighborhood." It seems that I'm starting to sound just like him these days. ;)

You can make the argument on lifter to bore clearance that is being made on valve guide clearance. At the end of the day, you can have variances stack up and work against you when you are assembling an engine. Add to that the fact that many of us are running higher valve lifts, higher spring pressures, and spinning the motors faster, and it becomes much more crucial to check ALL the clearances before we drop a motor in a boat. I wish I had checked my guide clearances, because it would dispel one more nagging worry when I run the boat. Maybe I worry too much - I need to make the wife drive and sit back and drink beer.

As Black Baja reported, there are probably tens of thousands of these heads running out there without issues. But machine tolerances can vary, and occasionally you can have the perfect storm of factors that result in an unfortunate situation like Full Force had happen to him. We probably need to wait for all the facts to be revealed before we jump to conclusions about issues with AFR heads.

Bring your heads to 10 different head machinists and see what they report back for valve guide clearances. Most reports will not agree with each other.

Especially when dealing with .0001 measurements. The same guy could use the same tool on the same guide two different days and come up with different measurements. That's where experience comes into play. Knowing your tools and the affect temperature has on things plays a big part in being successful.

I think operating temperature has a lot to do with some of these problems

Mercs heads all come in between .0021 and .0023.

What heads are we talking? Thanks

Sorry, that would be useful. 500 EFI, 525 EFI, and 700 SCI. Even the Mag motors too if I remember right.

Absolutely. At that level you're beyond plug 'n play.

Wow. That's getting pretty sloppy. This is brand new out of the box measurements?

Yes, it is also AFR and Dart's recommendations for naturally aspirated open cooling marine applications. Straight from my tech guys mouths this afternoon. .0017 to .0018 is for street strip only.

My experience with AFR has been very positive wether the guides are tight or not, they dropped a new casting in the cnc machine for me within hours of me calling them to address my issue, I will be sending the head back to them that failed and wait for the outcome, I show tight, they may not.... could have been a bad day at AFR, maybe not....

would I buy AFR again, ABSOLUTELY.... but also for great lakes open cooling use I will buy bare and build myself....

A was also talking to Dean Gellner last week before this happened, he told me in general conversation all heads for open cooling marine use should be machined for it, and DART, Brodix and Edelbrocks all vary and are too tight in his opinion...he is not new to this stuff either...

my guy and also Gellner sets them up around there for all marine applications...

That's because it's a 3/8" valve..........

Interesting stuff.

Here is my thing. And I'm not trying to p in Tim's cheerio's. This is just my observation. Everyone mentioned that runs things on the loose side I'm sure know what they are doing and successful at it. But there are a ton of guys that are running AFR's heads out of the box. Besides Tim there are no other reported failures. You guys know how it is on OSO. If there is some junk floating around it doesn't take long b4 the word gets out. At this point we know what the out of the box clearance numbers are. They are what AFR states (mine a hair loose). So, what's the deal anyone have some more carnage pics or what?

Here's something to think about: AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PERSON, GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS, PROFESSIONAL ENGINE BUILDER, are the ones responsible, for all final measurements, inspections, assembly of an engine, if it's going to run properly or fail. If a part is going to fail, it would be after the fact, metallurgy, porosities, proper engine clearances are the responsibility of the builder.

Has never been verified that the heads were the issue, myself along with quite a few others see 3-4 possibilities that created a perfect storm....

Correct I failed no denying that.

You only fail if you give up and don't make it right. You started the project finish it. Stuff happens I've blown stuff up to. Big deal. Not the end of the world. You will learn more from this blown up motor than if it went on to run forever. One thing is for sure the next go round you will pay much closer attention to everything. Good luck you'll get it.

yea, I know just bummd out a little....thx..

Just think of it this way, there are professional shops out there that screw up people's motors worse than that daily!

I agree 100 percent, it's easy to forget when things go well, but.... on the other hand, when chit goes awry you never ever forget, !

that is true, even professionals fuk up.... I tried lol

My problem is that I dont have AFR's.. I have stock peanut ports

Anyone ever end up with the wrong springs?

Please explain if this is your case?