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-   -   Why is the Gen 7 496 such a bad platform to build (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/330907-why-gen-7-496-such-bad-platform-build.html)

ICDEDPPL 11-15-2015 07:37 PM

Nice work son!
Now you`re out of projects thou. I got some you can do over here .. I`m very unmotivated. :D

donzi matt 11-15-2015 07:47 PM


Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL (Post 4376353)
Nice work son!
Now you`re out of projects thou. I got some you can do over here .. I`m very unmotivated. :D

I gots plenty of stuff to do buddy. I have new controls to install. I have exhaust to install. I might upgrade the oil coolers and lines before I put the motors back in. I have an ice car I still have to put together before racing in January. I have a Boston Whaler that I promised my kids I would replace all the wood in before next season. I have another small block to build for a customer before spring. I have to get 5 sleds ready before snow hits. It's going to be a fun, exciting, hard working winter. Hopefully all these projects make it go by quick, I want to go boating.

So what did I do today? Let my wife drag my fat a$$ on a 10 mile hike through the mountains. WTF is wrong with me?

ICDEDPPL 11-15-2015 07:54 PM

Ok I stand corrected.. you better stay up all night :D

donzi matt 11-15-2015 08:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by ICDEDPPL (Post 4376361)
Ok I stand corrected.. you better stay up all night :D

No worries, I got a forklift to help me. :angry-smiley-038:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]547714[/ATTACH]

ICDEDPPL 11-16-2015 08:15 AM

Ha!
I also picked up something somethin last month .. it included an operator

http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s5/...66286148-3.jpg

and now it`s making some serious power.

http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s12...45900944-3.jpg


:D

donzi matt 11-20-2015 06:45 PM

An incremental update, I installed a Melling 10778 pump in the motor I just finished. Ran it for 1/2 an hour on the hose with fresh Mobil 1 15//50 and a Wix 51060R filter. Last weekend it was idling at 46 and would run 58 at 3000 RPM according to my Rinda on older Mobil 1 15/50. Now it idles at 56 and at 3000 it is at 75psi. I am sure that will drop when I can actually warm up the oil but it is a nice improvement. After a hard run last season I would see 50 psi at WOT and 20-25 at idle. I would like to see a little more than that with the extra horsepower.

I am also going to upgrade my oil cooler to a 3x16 Hardin thermostatically controlled cooler. I am still up in the air if I actually have the ambition to upgrade all the lines and fittings, or if I am going to wait until I pull the bottom end down. As with everything else on these motors, changing the oil pump is straight forward, the cast pan drops right out, and the gasket is a reusable o-ring style.

Keith Atlanta 11-20-2015 08:03 PM


Originally Posted by donzi matt (Post 4378267)

I am also going to upgrade my oil cooler to a 3x16 Hardin thermostatically controlled cooler. I am still up in the air if I actually have the ambition to upgrade all the lines and fittings, or if I am going to wait until I pull the bottom end down. As with everything else on these motors, changing the oil pump is straight forward, the cast pan drops right out, and the gasket is a reusable o-ring style.

Other than the feed line and discharge line from the new cooler assuming its mounted ont he back, the only reason to change is "bling" factor. You wont pick up any flow as the lines are already fairly large. In my opinion, its a waste of money unless your lines are dryrotted or worn through. Most of them are steel or already heavy duty.

donzi matt 12-04-2015 01:42 PM

4 Attachment(s)
A couple of updates in the past couple of weeks. I updated bypass valves to the 30 psi valves. That's pretty easy and straight forward. Yesterday Santa showed up in a big brown van with the rest of my exhaust parts. These are really nice pieces and installation is pretty straight forward. I drilled and tapped the new filter head for my oil temp sender, there was plenty of meat for that. Nothing about this kit is chincy and it is a very nice kit. It's louder, way louder with this exhaust. It sounds terrific actually. The manifolds are hard anodized, I have O2 bungs in the risers, and I have the larger 3.5" riser pipes with the non silent choice length riser. Here are a couple of pics:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]548314[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]548315[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]548316[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]548317[/ATTACH]


And also, the before and after videos, my phone doesn't really convey how much louder it is, but it is pretty significant. It also has more lope to it that I attribute to the individualized runners.


Stock Exhaust

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9_JbwAh5wE

donzi matt 12-04-2015 01:42 PM

And the Dana Exhaust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-_wo3q9Xn0

Ryan00TJ 12-04-2015 05:58 PM

Looks and sounds great Matt! Definitely throatier and louder vs stock. I bet you can't wait for spring....

modvp 12-04-2015 09:09 PM

It does look and sounds amazing, I'm thinking removing the rubber hose on the stock setup may be a better comparison.

donzi matt 01-28-2016 08:56 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Nothing really new happening with my engines, they are up in heated storage till spring, but there is one sort of cool update. Since I am running the ported intake instead of a trick looking sheetmetal intake, I wanted to try and do something to set it apart from a regular old 496 HO. Our very own 502SS (Jim) graciously offered to make some custom stickers for the covers and Larry at Raylar was happy to send me their logo files. Jim knocked it out of the park, and at least now there is something other than sound to indicate these aren't quite stock motors. What do you guys think?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]550195[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]550196[/ATTACH]

Naughty Kitty 01-28-2016 11:44 AM

Love it Matt, I would probably paint the plastic as well...maybe red? After redoing my HOs last year I wanted to dress it up as well. New Cowls, Filters and matching blue Plug Wires help set it apart from the family cruiser motor when the hatches are opened.

http://www.intored.net/media/496/Dressed-1.JPG

http://www.intored.net/media/496/Dressed-2.JPG

Ryan00TJ 01-28-2016 02:05 PM

Looks good Matt. I like that look. Very unique.

Keith Atlanta 01-28-2016 05:05 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Heres what I did before the Raylar intakes.

BUP 01-28-2016 05:51 PM

Post 173 who made your covers - very nice and IMO the more it is vented the better.

MN35LIGHTNING 01-28-2016 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by BUP (Post 4398061)
Post 173 who made your covers - very nice and IMO the more it is vented the better.

I believe those are F&M Custom Cowlings pieces. I bought a 496 stainless dress up kit from them years ago.

MN35LIGHTNING 01-28-2016 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by donzi matt (Post 4397897)
Nothing really new happening with my engines, they are up in heated storage till spring, but there is one sort of cool update. Since I am running the ported intake instead of a trick looking sheetmetal intake, I wanted to try and do something to set it apart from a regular old 496 HO. Our very own 502SS (Jim) graciously offered to make some custom stickers for the covers and Larry at Raylar was happy to send me their logo files. Jim knocked it out of the park, and at least now there is something other than sound to indicate these aren't quite stock motors. What do you guys think?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]550195[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]550196[/ATTACH]

Looks awesome. I love subtle touches like that.

Keith Atlanta 01-28-2016 07:42 PM

Matt did you have the intake ported locally or did you buy it from Raylar?

donzi matt 01-28-2016 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by Keith Atlanta (Post 4398117)
Matt did you have the intake ported locally or did you buy it from Raylar?

Raylar did it. Changed to a 90MM throttle body and 4 bolt flange as well.

Vortec Bandit 01-28-2016 09:06 PM

I run a modified intake also but it has been completely dissected and given the full Monty including the four bolt flange. I ran a 90mm then added a 2 inch spacer which picked up power on the dyno. Then went to a 102mm and flared the spacer to match and picked up more power.

Vortec Bandit 01-28-2016 09:16 PM

Keith, you may be interested in this. By modifying/lengthening the fuel rail transfer tube between the rails and adding a bend, filling the original injector bosses, 're-machining the bosses to point the injectors upstream created an additional 8hp.

Naughty Kitty 01-29-2016 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by BUP (Post 4398061)
Post 173 who made your covers - very nice and IMO the more it is vented the better.

Not sure who they are, I know F&M make them but these are not theirs. Some guy had them listed on PBSS in a red metallic and said he had them for years, so good chance it was a small West Coast shop that was working with a boat company long gone ;(

Keith Atlanta 01-29-2016 07:19 PM


Originally Posted by Vortec Bandit (Post 4398155)
I run a modified intake also but it has been completely dissected and given the full Monty including the four bolt flange. I ran a 90mm then added a 2 inch spacer which picked up power on the dyno. Then went to a 102mm and flared the spacer to match and picked up more power.

I have Raylar intakes. Would it work?

thirdchildhood 01-30-2016 05:45 AM

My 496 before I swapped in a 525EFI:

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/x...c007Medium.jpg

Raylar 02-02-2016 01:37 AM

Yeah of course it'll work with our manifolds!

Cut the front 78mm snout off and bolt on a 102. We've done lots of 90 / 102 conversions with the Cool Gap. Heck, we even do it with the modified stock manifolds now:
http://www.raylarengineering.com/img...old-throat.jpg

http://www.raylarengineering.com/img...r-manifold.jpg

Rage 02-10-2016 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by Vortec Bandit (Post 4398159)
Keith, you may be interested in this. By modifying/lengthening the fuel rail transfer tube between the rails and adding a bend, filling the original injector bosses, 're-machining the bosses to point the injectors upstream created an additional 8hp.

Any dyno sheet available?

donzi matt 03-14-2016 08:35 AM

Spring is around the corner and I am thinking about getting the final projects done on my motors before dropping them back in. I want to upgrade the stock oil coolers but don't think I want to do anything with the stock lines. My thinking is to go to a 3" cooler with a thermostat in the stock location with some new brackets. This is the cooler I am looking at: 3" cooler from CP Performance. The stock 496 ties the air drain system into this but my Dana exhaust has a manual valve so I can do away with the funky T fitting at the end of the cooler for the water hoses. Has anybody had any experience with doing a setup like this and if so how did it work for keeping oil temperatures under control?

Pismo10 03-14-2016 02:46 PM

Bore... or lack there of..

Ryan00TJ 03-14-2016 03:11 PM


Originally Posted by donzi matt (Post 4415505)
Spring is around the corner and I am thinking about getting the final projects done on my motors before dropping them back in. I want to upgrade the stock oil coolers but don't think I want to do anything with the stock lines. My thinking is to go to a 3" cooler with a thermostat in the stock location with some new brackets. This is the cooler I am looking at: 3" cooler from CP Performance. The stock 496 ties the air drain system into this but my Dana exhaust has a manual valve so I can do away with the funky T fitting at the end of the cooler for the water hoses. Has anybody had any experience with doing a setup like this and if so how did it work for keeping oil temperatures under control?

Your on the right track. Anything is an upgrade over the stock unit. That size should do a fine job for your needs. If I remember your setup to monitor oil temp.

class6 03-14-2016 03:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
To make the 496 breathe[ATTACH=CONFIG]552359[/ATTACH]

donzi matt 03-14-2016 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by Ryan00TJ (Post 4415660)
Your on the right track. Anything is an upgrade over the stock unit. That size should do a fine job for your needs. If I remember your setup to monitor oil temp.

Yes, measuring oil temps at the filter head before it has been through the cooler. I would see temps get up to 240-250 when running WOT for an extended period, then they would stabilize there. In my opinion the stock cooler is barely adequate for a stock motor, so it is time for an upgrade. I have already upgraded the oil pumps and bypass valves and hope the cooler upgrade is the last piece of the puzzle I need to complete.

thirdchildhood 03-14-2016 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by class6 (Post 4415662)
To make the 496 breathe[ATTACH=CONFIG]552359[/ATTACH]

That's sweet. Who makes it?

class6 03-14-2016 04:57 PM

Kinsler Fuel Injection

MILD THUNDER 03-14-2016 07:31 PM


Originally Posted by donzi matt (Post 4415505)
Spring is around the corner and I am thinking about getting the final projects done on my motors before dropping them back in. I want to upgrade the stock oil coolers but don't think I want to do anything with the stock lines. My thinking is to go to a 3" cooler with a thermostat in the stock location with some new brackets. This is the cooler I am looking at: 3" cooler from CP Performance. The stock 496 ties the air drain system into this but my Dana exhaust has a manual valve so I can do away with the funky T fitting at the end of the cooler for the water hoses. Has anybody had any experience with doing a setup like this and if so how did it work for keeping oil temperatures under control?

Matt, I had some of those 12 bundle by 3 inch coolers on my engines before I went to bellhousing coolers. Back then, I had the small blowers, and wasnt making as much power, but still had to be 600hp or more. I also wasn't running water stats in the engines, but, I had oil temps that were plenty cool.

donzi matt 03-14-2016 07:37 PM

Thanks MT, that's the kind of information I was looking for. I think this will be the easiest setup for me to install without modifying the oil lines so I was hoping they were adequate for cooling.

myturn 04-05-2016 06:19 PM

Any updates? Is it is getting close to the ice going out?

Keith Atlanta 04-05-2016 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by donzi matt (Post 4415762)
Thanks MT, that's the kind of information I was looking for. I think this will be the easiest setup for me to install without modifying the oil lines so I was hoping they were adequate for cooling.

Its not a huge deal, you can make oil lines with -12AN braided lines & fillings in 20 minutes. HOWEVER! The one that hooks to the oil filter plate, the original oil filter location blockoff plate on the block, is some funky size like 21 metric or something. You would have to buy a little converter plug. Keep that in mind if you ever do it, the rest is -12AN. It took me a week to find the right fitting but I cant remember what it was.

donzi matt 04-05-2016 06:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by myturn (Post 4425099)
Any updates? Is it is getting close to the ice going out?

The ice is out, but it was 16 degrees at my house this morning. This spring can blow me. the motors are still resting in the shop and the boat is still covered. Got one of the projects I needed done first before I can focus on this boat last weekend:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]553611[/ATTACH]

Stripped the boat to the hull, had the tub fixed, and installed a new wood interior. My kids have been after me for 3 years to take care of this, glad I did as it looks like new now. Not bad for a 1989.

As soon as the weather actually starts to resemble spring the cover is coming off and it will be back to work. I should have the motors down off of the mezzanine this week and get the new oil coolers installed. That's the last thing I need to do before they go back in. The coolers arrived end of last week, yet one more great transaction with Bill at Diamond Performance. I did end up going with the thermostat controlled 3X16 coolers.

donzi matt 04-29-2016 08:14 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Progress is being made. Installed the new oil coolers with stock lines, was able to finagle it in diagonally on the port side of each motor. It is mounted solid and was quite easy to plumb like that. Installed new impellers, fired them one more time on the floor to make sure they were ready to go.

Last weekend I pulled the cover off and popped the engine hatch off. I was greeted by a bilge with gear oil in it from the remote reservoir fitting on the gimble bleeding in. No big deal, fire up the steam cleaner, hop in an start cleaning. 10 minutes in and my foot slips and goes right under the nozzle of the steam cleaner. Right through my shoe, right through my sock, and I was left with this:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]554829[/ATTACH]

Not to be deterred, I got the port motor installed while yelping like a girl every time I had to hop out of the boat to run the forklift. Took about an hour to get it in and bolted up by myself. Sunday I got to the shop at 7:00 am, and got back to work on the starboard motor. An hour later and that was in and bolted up. The foot was catching up to me and it was time to call it a day.

Some notes: The Dana exhaust is much wider than the stock 496 exhaust. When I ordered the manifolds I had them shave the inboard manifolds a 1/4" each. I'm glad I did or it wouldn't have fit. I also had to relocate my hatch actuator about 6 inches forward because it hit the exhaust now.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]554831[/ATTACH]

This is what I ended up with at the end of the morning on Sunday. These things are ugly.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]554832[/ATTACH]

Got everything wired up this week, had to modify the throttle cable bracket for the accufab throttlebodies but otherwise everything fit like a glove. Here is the final product, Jim hit it out of the park with the decals for the stock covers:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]554833[/ATTACH]

Serviced the drives, installed Hardin drive showers, moved up from 26 pitch Bravo's to 28 pitch Bravo's to start with. I have a set of Hydromotive 28's to try as well. I am pretty sure my port Bravo isn't long for this world. The fluid smelled awful and there was a little fuzz on the magnet while the starboard magnet was spotless and the oil was fine. I have a spare for when it grenades.

If the weather is good next week I plan to splash it and do some testing with the wideband and fuel pressure gauge. I plan to tweak fuel pressure to compensate if it seems lean. I will also be able to confirm my fuel pressure holds steady at WOT and my fuel feed isn't a restriction.


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