never have and rigged a whole bunch of motors that way.everyone in our group has filter first.

well I'm going w/ the build of this motor was junk.

My company inspects heat exchangers and coolers, you would be shocked at what is left inside to be flushed by the oil/product. Not saying you wont get lucky, but why risk it?

Picture this, you take two flat pieces of metal and drill 50-100 holes thru both pieces at the same time, then you weld/solder both pieces to the end of a tube, then you push 50-100 pieces of tube thru the holes and then you weld or silver solder the tubes in place. Can you see the possibility of shavings and excess solder/weld/slag ending up on the inside?

Your brand new motor flushes the cooler into your engine.

well I do clean them before I install/rig them.but I could see a big problem if care is not taken.

flushing may work, however vibration and heat will dislodge more material. I also feel that contaminated coolers may lead to rebuilt motor failures when they are in line after the filter. Typically a failed engine ( bearings) will release enough metal to cause the filter to bypass which then fills the cooler with unfiltered oil. You can flush it but...

that's why I also run my filters after the cooler always you never know whats in there, I swore my 420's were that way from Merc but cannot remember now...

You would have to know the flow path of the oil through the filter housing to determine when it measures temp and when it filters in relation to cooler correct? I'm sure someone here knows for sure

In through the little holes out through the big hole

I mean there is an inlet/ outlet from the engine on the housing and an inlet/ outlet from the cooler on the housing with different flow paths depending on where the thermostat directs the oil. So when is temp take? When is it filtered?

I cant remember the ins and outs of the bell housing setup.

maybe this will help, flow the oil against the water

I have just looked over this thread, with the pictures a couple of times....I must say; from your quoted words; You admit you had seaweed packed inside the water intake the size of a baseball...are you running as single large pick-up, feeding both engines or two separate pick-ups, with two sea strainers.......?
You say water temp was 140- 150.... was that ambient temp or actual water temp, if no water was flowing....you will be reading ambient temp..

These pistons are showing scuffing only on the thrust side, if cleanance was a issue that would show on both sides.... I have never seen, heat transfer or actual burnet oil on the inside of a piston skirt, only combustion gases in a aged engine with poor ring seal.

If you take away water flow, you'll definitely discolor headers.... The water in the block will remain there, doing nothing except increasing in temp, creating steam. NO heat transfer from cylinder walls, oil literally burning on cylinder walls and no lubrication.....Its kind of like having a steam pocket in a closed cooling system, the water maybe 200 plus degrees, but the thermostat won't open because the water isn't actually touching the thermostat only ambient air....same goes for temp sender in that general area.

Question; Is your engine warning system operational ? low oil pressure and high water temperature ? After 10 hrs of running and this happens, it's not from clearance issues... Did you dyno this engine ??? If clearance was a issue, this would have been done on the dyno... The rocker arm being loose off center, if you expand alum enough, things can loosen up, aluminum expands at a faster rate than the steel bolts that hold the rocker arm stands down. I have used plenty of the Jesel sportsman Sets, that's a good stand for the money... It not rated for a Spring of 385 seat and 800 open....

Being the sea strainer was blocked/ restricted, headers turning color........ Saying, NO SCREEN IN STRAINER, why is there no screen ?????

I would like to know more about the water pickup system.... What is the condition of the other engine if so ?

There is one large pickup which divides into 2 halves internally. Those two halves have individual hoses and shutoff valves which feed strainers. The strainers have screens. The intake on the outside of the boat does not have any screen so it can suck up anything that fits in. I have to assume the 140-150 is the actual water temp as that is what it has read every time the boat has been run once it warms up. The engines have high water temp alarms and low oil pressure alarms. The rocker arms that were out of position were still tight on disassembly

When my first rebuild went bad after 10 hrs of run time my pistons looked EXACTLY like this. One was so bad the cyl had to be sleeved. I always had 50 lbs of oil pressure and ZERO heat issues(cross overs no thermostat) oil temp was still 220. Took it apart had Ben at Precision Power Offshore rebuild them. Put it on the dyno and found the jetting to be lean as hell under load at 3000 to 4000 but great at WFO.

BCK I feel for ya I can't help on the look of the bearings or the rockers not being straight on the valve but it sure looks like terrible detonation by the looks of the pistons. think I still have that piston somewhere

So you are telling the engine didn't overheat, even with the seaweed clogged in inlet?

horsepower1 (Scott) Please remove your "Like" from my "Post"

The only gauge that moved was the oil temp on 1 engine, which is why I have doubts as to how hot the engines got. When I stopped the boat to determine why I discovered the clogged strainers. Both engines were already knocking at this point. After pulling boat I discovered intake on transom also clogged up. The only physical evidence of overheating is 1 discolored header and whatever the pics in this thread show. I believe the engines definitely got hot. Trying to determine if they got hot enough to ruin what were otherwise good engines or whether engines were marginal from day one and should have survived this

I'm being told that on the filter housings I have the temp is taken before oil would pass through cooler. If that info is correct then oil temp leaving the engine never exceeded 240

The temp sensors read vapor temps with a very slow response time. So, if you were not getting water flow, they would have been surrounded by steam / air and read incorrectly. It takes a long time for the heat to get high enough to read on a temp sensor that does not have water on it. I burned up a car engine when it dumped the water quickly - temp sensors got into the hot range after it started showing signs of damage. Even after I stopped, it took a long time for them to hit the overheat range on the gauge.

The problem I see is that the build was not all you expected. But, the motors most likely did get hot enough to hurt them if they were knocking and the headers blued, first sign for me of no water is usually a change in exhaust note followed by the smell of burning exhaust rubber, after which you have seconds to shut it down.

It's a tough situation to be in with little recourse except to make sure you get what you pay for this time. I would suggest getting away from the shared pickup, not much point in having two engines when they are both vulnerable to one plastic bag/sea weed

I wish you better luck and hopefully the engine builder will meet you someway with regard to the cost.

Nice way to welcome a new knowledgeable guy to the site.

I'm using a different builder this time around so hopefully all goes well this time. I haven't even mentioned this to the original builder, I'm not looking for anything from him. Time to move on from this I guess and maybe post some pics of the new build.

X 2.

See this all the time at work. If one at my shop does not check coolant level in radiator for many drivability issues (not just heating/cooling), you get a dope slap from me. And sometimes more. LOL.

Any pics? Are your new motors done yet?

Short blocks are done. It took a while because I was trying to decide if I wanted blowers. Now waiting on cams.

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looking good. How much power you looking to make?

Well, the heads are only the 305s and I'm sticking with the 4150 flange Vic Jr. I'm only changing the cam. I'll try a dominator with an adapter on the dyno to see if it makes a difference. No real hp goal. That being said, they will be 8 ci bigger, about .5 higher compression and spin them a couple hundred rpm faster. Cams will still probably be on the milder side. Although it didn't work out these engines were supposed to be way over built for the power so they'd stay reliable and last.

"X" hatch scotchbriting is an old school process to leave microscopic scratches for oil retention in the bearing. Local well known and respected engine builder taught me that trick years ago. I still do it to this day, however, its effectiveness is not always seen agreeable amongst different builders.

Is that how it looks? Maybe that's why it was done, nothing else really explains it

That's what it looks like to me. Just a quick swipe across the bearing surfaces at 45 degree angles with worn scotchbrite under a stream of solvent from the parts cleaner. It is not intended to remove any material, just very small hatches.

any new news on your build?

Still at the builders. Short blocks have been done. I've put things on hold a few times now trying to figure out what changes if any I was going to make. Decisions, decisions.

bck clear your inbox. thanks leo

So wait, you can sit on a different thread and tell me I cannot build engines in my garage, I am stupid, cannot make the power Bob said I should (but he spec'd heads and cam combo) then go on to boat all summer while yours was apart after PAYING someone to build yours WRONG? then you build new engines that you brag made more power then mine and did not even get off the dyno without breaking??? then tell me Bob is king and you have yet to even see how long your new engines will last after PAYONG someone to fix them a 3rd time now???? but I am the idiot? you don't even turn a wrench on yours and you will fault me and my issues that are LONG GONE just to stick up for Bob? you are so smart but you cannot even post cam specs because you have no idea what they are or mean.....

Man I know more info about your situation I cannot post, too bad... you should not be making fun of me when you have not even been off the dyno without issues....

tim,if he put you on the ignore list he can,t see your posts.

he seems to see on the other post, too bad he has to block me because I make sense here...

Someone tell him to be a man and unblock me, not run and hide...